Sander Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Might I ask why haven't you hit Hieratic Seal of Convocation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Zanda Panda' timestamp='1351441940' post='6055636'] Might I ask why haven't you hit Hieratic Seal of Convocation? [/quote]Because it's already Semi'd and didn't need to go further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='exaenae' timestamp='1351364530' post='6055044'] Put the Exodia pieces except the head to unlimited since they're pretty much useless now when you've banned the head. [/quote] Traidtional wouldn't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 I thought we established that Traditional is broken anyways and doing anything to make it better is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Lord Vennominon' timestamp='1351445114' post='6055691'] I thought we established that Traditional is broken anyways and doing anything to make it better is pointless. [/quote] Forget making it better, but putting the Exodia limbs to 3 when it really makes no difference to advanced, is basically taking a dump on Traditional when it's flat-out unnecessary. Same with Primal Seed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Excalibur-sama' timestamp='1351445412' post='6055695'] Forget making it better, but putting the Exodia limbs to 3 when it really makes no difference to advanced, is basically taking a dump on Traditional when it's flat-out unnecessary. Same with Primal Seed. [/quote]Again, Primal Seed was @3 before BLS was brought back. No one cares about Traditional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1351445524' post='6055702'] Again, Primal Seed was @3 before BLS was brought back. No one cares about Traditional. [/quote] Does that mean you should make changes to the banlist [i]for the hell of it?[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Excalibur-sama' timestamp='1351445592' post='6055703'] Does that mean you should make changes to the banlist [i]for the hell of it?[/i] [/quote]No, it means we don't take Traditional into account when making it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1351445674' post='6055705'] No, it means we don't take Traditional into account when making it. [/quote] It's one of those card which literally can't be activated as its requirements are banned. Just leave it where it is, who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Excalibur-sama' timestamp='1351446015' post='6055710'] It's one of those card which literally can't be activated as its requirements are banned. Just leave it where it is, who cares? [/quote]I wanna leave it as is because it's Exodia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1351446254' post='6055713'] I wanna leave it as is because it's Exodia. [/quote] I was actually talking about Primal Seed. I do agree with Exodia's limbs staying at 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 I dont think anyone would run more than 1 of each exodia piece anyway,you'll get more pieces for sure but they'll be 2nd or 3rd right hands and left legs than an extra draw card for the real 5 pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Exa Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Oh, just now noticed, why the hell is Cannon Soldier forbidden? It does burn your opponent, which does reduce interaction, but for such a price it's practically useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='exaenae' timestamp='1351447947' post='6055734'] Oh, just now noticed, why the hell is Cannon Soldier forbidden? It does burn your opponent, which does reduce interaction, but for such a price it's practically useless. [/quote]Banned because burn loops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='exaenae' timestamp='1351447947' post='6055734']Oh, just now noticed, why the hell is Cannon Soldier forbidden? It does burn your opponent, which does reduce interaction, but for such a price it's practically useless.[/quote]It prevents any sort of Monster looping from happening. Essentially, Mass Driver was banned because it caused FTKs, and Cannon (Both versions [MK-II Notwithstanding]) should be for the same reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='mido9' timestamp='1351446387' post='6055715'] I dont think anyone would run more than 1 of each exodia piece anyway,you'll get more pieces for sure but they'll be 2nd or 3rd right hands and left legs than an extra draw card for the real 5 pieces. [/quote] Thing is it would allow for things like Card Destruction to not be completely dead if you have a piece in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 this list just seems like a "butthurt list"...if you really want to ban cards on principle...there is no hit to chain burn..and im sure we all agree that burn is a stupid mechanic that limits player interaction i also see a lack of X sabers which is basically a deck of floaters what can loop your hand...swarm the field..put out big monters ect ect...then karakuri is not on there...the deck can easily set up otks...summons from the deck...which you said is stupid yourself...get free pluses just by using their own gimmick of changing battle position...you ban the water elemental lord then limit the grand soil as if a walking monster reborn is "fine" at 1.... yeah....its a butt hurt list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Got linked to this, and I don't have time to reply to it all, but I have to say it. This list is f***ing awful. Making a banlist on design without factoring the game in is stupid, and it's never a good idea. Yes, badly designed cards exist. Does that mean you should just ban them all? No. You're inconsistent as hell (IE: Wind-up Hunter isn't banned, Cannon Soldier is. RotA is banned, but Convocation is fine @2. Etc.), you ban perfectly balanced and designed cards like Cardcar, you ignore the real problems in decks, you make extraneous decisions that are not in the game's best interests, and you just show an utter lack of knowledge on how the hell a banlist should be made. Don't quit your day job. You clearly don't even have a grasp on what card design is.[quote name='El Majishan' timestamp='1351450562' post='6055765'] this list just seems like a "butthurt list"...if you really want to ban cards on principle...there is no hit to chain burn..and im sure we all agree that burn is a stupid mechanic that limits player interaction i also see a lack of X sabers which is basically a deck of floaters what can loop your hand...swarm the field..put out big monters ect ect...then karakuri is not on there...the deck can easily set up otks...summons from the deck...which you said is stupid yourself...get free pluses just by using their own gimmick of changing battle position...you ban the water elemental lord then limit the grand soil as if a walking monster reborn is "fine" at 1.... yeah....its a butt hurt list. [/quote] I think this is the first time I am glad to have been ninja'd for a similar post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1351379299' post='6055197'] True, but this is mainly a basic call to card design. I don't expect half of these cards to move on the banlist, but I'm using this as a way to show that such cards do have fundamental flaws in their design. [/quote] Then why not ban Ojamagic and Agent - Venus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Hatcher' timestamp='1351451364' post='6055779'] Then why not ban Ojamagic and Agent - Venus? [/quote] Venus is in no way overpowered/bad design. Sure it sets up an instant Gachi play, but people can Veiler it, or chain Maxx "C" to it. Plus, Venus is weak on it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [i]So is Expressroid.[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpoleMew Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='みゆきサン' timestamp='1351451631' post='6055783'] Venus is in no way overpowered/bad design. Sure it sets up an instant Gachi play, but people can Veiler it, or chain Maxx "C" to it. Plus, Venus is weak on it's own. [/quote] Rescue Rabbit is in no way overpowered/bad design. Sure it sets up an instant Ophion play, but people can Veiler it, or chain Maxx "C" to it. Plus, Rabbit is weak on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='みゆきサン' timestamp='1351451631' post='6055783'] Venus is in no way overpowered/bad design. Sure it sets up an instant Gachi play, but people can Veiler it, or chain Maxx "C" to it. Plus, Venus is weak on it's own. [/quote] Nah, Venus is bad design. Veilering something is not an argument. It's just that you can push some principles as long as it doesn't promote power creep. Which brings me to the point that you've got a general gist of card design here, but card design is simply but a small subsection of game design. You can allow bad design sometimes, especially if it's no longer bad design when introduced outside a vacuum. You do seem to be looking at everything in a vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Hatcher' timestamp='1351451364' post='6055779'] Then why not ban Ojamagic and Agent - Venus? [/quote]I should probably have Venus at 1 or 0. Ojamagic could probably also use a hit. In both cases, the reason is primarily for not banning them is that they only search specific cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1351442233' post='6055641'] Because it's already Semi'd and didn't need to go further. [/quote] It's in the same boat with Reinforcement of the Army and yet, you've banned that. Free searching like that is considered bad card design, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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