Agro Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Alright, so let's have a discussion about the "When this card is Summoned, +1" cards. [spoiler='Types of Stratos Searchers] [b]Unrestricted Search[/b] [img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120224005529/yugioh/images/thumb/3/3a/ElementalHEROStratos-RYMP-EN-C-1E.jpg/300px-ElementalHEROStratos-RYMP-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img] [b]Summon Restricted Stratos[/b] [img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120929045039/yugioh/images/thumb/b/bf/ConstellarSheratan-DT07-EN-DNPR-DT.png/300px-ConstellarSheratan-DT07-EN-DNPR-DT.png[/img][img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730162850/yugioh/images/thumb/d/dd/GenexBlastfanHA02-EN-SR-1E.jpg/300px-GenexBlastfanHA02-EN-SR-1E.jpg[/img] [b]Extended Search (Unlimited Search)[/b] [img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120911215709/yugioh/images/thumb/5/5c/MadolcheMagileine-REDU-EN-SR-1E.png/300px-MadolcheMagileine-REDU-EN-SR-1E.png[/img][img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121004142142/yugioh/images/thumb/3/36/RedGadget-LCYW-EN-UR-1E.jpg/300px-RedGadget-LCYW-EN-UR-1E.jpg[/img] [b]Restricted Search (1 Card)[/b] [b][img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121004142136/yugioh/images/thumb/6/60/GreenGadget-LCYW-EN-UR-1E.jpg/300px-GreenGadget-LCYW-EN-UR-1E.jpg[/img][/b] [b]Delayed Search[/b] [img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120911215111/yugioh/images/thumb/5/51/GenexNeutron-CT09-EN-SR-LE.png/300px-GenexNeutron-CT09-EN-SR-LE.png[/img] [/spoiler] Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Red gadget under unlimited search? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Depends on the archetype, IMO. In terms of how game-breaking one could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='mido9' timestamp='1351446640' post='6055719'] Red gadget under unlimited search? [/quote]Extended search, and I was referring to how you're theoretically going to search 8 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Berserker- Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Genex Undine is the one I have been playing the most. And with it, the searching itself is just a plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Well... Stratos is borked just because of it's dumb interaction with bubbleman making it free xyzes all day, Sheratan + leonis is free rank 3,ick but meh, Blastfan is pretty restricted in it's search and has only 1 decent target,so i'd say it's fine Majoliene being infinite search would be pretty okay if it didnt go straight to the hand afterwards with chateau or factory for more +ing,an infinite stream of 1400 madolche is pretty ehhh imo, The gadgets with tinplate fish is pretty derp with GGX grabbing a gearframe(y u no mention him) for fortress for more easy +ing and fodder for fort, Neutron is prolly the best designed of them since it usually dies in the opponent's turn and goes off when you absolutely cant use neutron in conjunction with the search target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='mido9' timestamp='1351447269' post='6055726'] Well... Stratos is borked just because of it's dumb interaction with bubbleman making it free xyzes all day, Sheratan + leonis is free rank 3,ick but meh, Blastfan is pretty restricted in it's search and has only 1 decent target,so i'd say it's fine Majoliene being infinite search would be pretty okay if it didnt go straight to the hand afterwards with chateau or factory for more +ing,an infinite stream of 1400 madolche is pretty ehhh imo, The gadgets with tinplate fish is pretty derp with GGX grabbing a gearframe(y u no mention him) for fortress for more easy +ing and fodder for fort, Neutron is prolly the best designed of them since it usually dies in the opponent's turn and goes off when you absolutely cant use neutron in conjunction with the search target. [/quote]I'm trying to ask about the type of searcher, though, not the exact cards themselves. Potential Problem vs Current Problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 All of them except neutron are pretty dumb then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 MtG is practically devoid on tutors, while Pokémon has a trillion. Since YGO's quite similar to MtG, I don't think YGO should have them either. Neutron's delayed search is actually a really good way to balance it out. Another way would to add to top of Deck instead of hand, but that would obviously be much less powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 The main issue I have is things that don't restrict the levels of what they search as you can just pull out a big monster on summon, like Gearframe and Stratos. Magileine is stupid because it's essentially infinite, gadgets aren't too bad if you take GGX out of the equation, I don't know anything about the constellar thingummy and Stratos is the worst of them all because it has decent ATK, works on SS, has another effect and has a very wide range of things to search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 I also don't mind +0 versions of it. You know, effects with costs like Abysspike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Doodle Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Now that I think of it, maybe a Magileine would have been less 'broken' as a delayed searcher. you get the +1 but don't get to OTK or swarm the entire field or something... Also why are the gadget arranged like that? (different types\no Yellow...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [b]Unrestricted Search[/b] [color=blue]This is obviously wrong. It doesn't care how it's Summoned, and it doesn't care what the Level or what sub-Archtype it gets. It is obviously more susceptible to becoming broken in the future. It's also a no-brain that players using said archtype always need to maximize this with no side effect or anything, hurting strategy while deck building.[/color] [b]Summon Restricted Stratos[/b] [color=blue]This is better, depending on that the good point is. Sometimes the Summon restriction is pointless depending on the archtype, or sometimes it is so out of what said archtype usually does, that it might as well not exist. It's a good method to prevent the unrestricted search like Stratos', One of them at least.[/color] [b]Extended Search (Unlimited Search)[/b] [color=blue]This is obviously wrong if the searcher is a relatively easy +1, especially if it can also search itself, or be part of a combo that results on another copy of it being able to be searched. The priviledge of searching something you want from your deck should always come with some cost or restriction in exchange, and be an occational life saver, not the way you get everything out of your deck.[/color] [b]Restricted Search (1 Card)[/b] [color=blue]That's pretty much only good while the searchers are still "restricted", but just as the first type of searcher: It does not think on the future. It varies in a case to case base, but some cards are obviously broken by design (example: Rekindling), and are not too much of a problem just for as long as they don't get that extra target(s) that will break it/them. I don't think this is the best thing to do unless it's pointing at a specific archtype that you are sure will never ever have more targets made for it to improve the card's potential, but even then, that just doesn't sound right.[/color] [b]Delayed Search[/b] [color=blue]Deleyed search can be good because it ensures that you won't be spamming everything out of being able to get everything instantly. In a way makes you think about what your future actions will be (except for one-trick-ponyness, but that's another issue). The only downside of it that I can see, is your opponent not being able to getting rid of that search of yours because of it still not being there, which is not necessarily bad.[/color][quote name='-Doodle' timestamp='1351457421' post='6055866'] Now that I think of it, maybe a Magileine would have been less 'broken' as a delayed searcher. you get the +1 but don't get to OTK or swarm the entire field or something... Also why are the gadget arranged like that? (different types\no Yellow...) [/quote] Gadgets fit into both searcher categories, so they are there as examples. They are both restricted because they search for one ofther specific card out there each, and unlimited because of how the brotherhood of searchers they are, they'll search A LOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1351453678' post='6055808'] I also don't mind +0 versions of it. You know, effects with costs like Abysspike. [/quote] Abysspike is a bit much. Mostly, because Atlanteans exist, and the +0 becomes a +1(destruction or search effect at that). Its even worse when you could Call of the Haunted him, and trigger him on the Opponent's turn. Situational, I know, but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 [quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1351458240' post='6055873'] Abysspike is a bit much. Mostly, because Atlanteans exist, and the +0 becomes a +1(destruction or search effect at that). Its even worse when you could Call of the Haunted him, and trigger him on the Opponent's turn. Situational, I know, but still... [/quote]I like combo-oriented decks, but yeah, maybe the Normal OR SS is too much for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 How about Batel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpakha Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 [quote name='mido9' timestamp='1351447269' post='6055726'] Sheratan + leonis is free rank 3,ick but meh, [/quote] Not just a free rank 3..... a free messier 7.... On Topic...sorta: I'm always so tempted to solemn these guys (usually I do...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 [quote name='newhat' timestamp='1351482716' post='6056120'] How about Batel? [/quote]I'm not posting every single f*cking stratos in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I feel like Earth Was important enough to put in here lol Though Batel is category on his own he just leads to so many shenanigans that's funny. However I don't mind the restricted search because unless you have an immediate out for the creature that did it like an honest or syncing then the card pretty much becomes like your CardCar almost where you are pretty much done. Stratos on the other hand is awful, it clouds the concept of misplays. You're always tempted to get back stratos when it dies because you know you'll + off it and you pass up probably more obvious and creative answers to problems that you may have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Would having strong ATK or DEF play any role in how overpowered a searcher is? Stratos' 1800ATK also lets him double as a beatstick, while something like Geargiarmor can potentially wall the Opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 [quote name='Beginning446' timestamp='1351523851' post='6056395'] I feel like Earth Was important enough to put in here lol Though Batel is category on his own he just leads to so many shenanigans that's funny. However I don't mind the restricted search because unless you have an immediate out for the creature that did it like an honest or syncing then the card pretty much becomes like your CardCar almost where you are pretty much done. Stratos on the other hand is awful, it clouds the concept of misplays. You're always tempted to get back stratos when it dies because you know you'll + off it and you pass up probably more obvious and creative answers to problems that you may have. [/quote]Both Batel and Earth fit under a category that's already up there. There's no point. Batel doesn't have its own category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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