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Thunder Sea Horse

.Exa

By .Exa
in Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG/OCG Card Discussion

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.Exa Newbie

.Exa

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[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121103180809/yugioh/images/thumb/8/8f/ThunderSeaHorse-ABYR-EN-ScR.png/300px-ThunderSeaHorse-ABYR-EN-ScR.png[/img]
The most epicest Secret ever.

Also, why the name change (a tiny one, but not needed nevertheless). I swear, Konami's going crazy with these name changes.

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Blake Newbie

Blake

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[quote name='- Neo -' timestamp='1351969417' post='6060363']
I don't think it's un-balanced :/

I can understand a lot of the arguments you've presented before, Black, but at the same time, it's viable support for an extremely undermeta Deck type that while offering a +1, has a significant number of drawbacks that prevents you from mindlessly plussing.
[/quote]
... First off, your initial argument is the same as Dragons deserved REDRUM. So that's complete bullshit.

You pretty much DO mindlessly plus. It doesn't take much thought to use, it [i]can[/i] set up for explosive OTKs, and it works with the actually BALANCED cards with similar restrictions for stupid combos that are only enabled by this card. One turn of no Special Summoning is in no way a viable drawback when Cardcar and Duality exist, plus the fact you can use it when you have something out and don't need to summon that turn. Must have the same name is a restriction that, out of 150~ games with them, has hampered me 1 time. It's not restricted enough, at all. It's a +1 that sets you up for the rest of the game.

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Synchronized Newbie

Synchronized

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[quote name='みゆきサン' timestamp='1351969638' post='6060366']
That's because you're bad at this game.[/quote]

Bro, Miraculous Descent and Cards from the Sky in Agents...

[quote name='Reborn Black' timestamp='1351969735' post='6060367']
... First off, your initial argument is the same as Dragons deserved REDRUM. So that's complete bullshit.

You pretty much DO mindlessly plus. It doesn't take much thought to use, it [i]can[/i] set up for explosive OTKs, and it works with the actually BALANCED cards with similar restrictions for stupid combos that are only enabled by this card. One turn of no Special Summoning is in no way a viable drawback when Cardcar and Duality exist, plus the fact you can use it when you have something out and don't need to summon that turn. Must have the same name is a restriction that, out of 150~ games with them, has hampered me 1 time. It's not restricted enough, at all. It's a +1 that sets you up for the rest of the game.
[/quote]

This is true, but can you solely place the blame on this when Duality and Cardcar are individual cards? It sets you up, but for what? A very small group of monsters that you can use to perform additional Normal Summons that, at least for the turn you use it, can't lead to anything other than field presence?

I do admit the "Dragons" argument is flawed and not really what I meant by that. I'm saying that with the evident power creep this game has, in order for anything to even be able to keep up and compete it needs to have some kind of relevant effect; when you compare this to the majority of other cards in the game right now, the Deck is still Tier 2 at best. Consistency is amazing but if you can't follow it up with devastating plays (and I don't consider set-up alone as a devastating play because your opponent KNOWS what's going on because they saw you perform the search.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't find the card balanced, but I don't find it broken, either. Given the current game-state I don't think it's that much of a problem.

[quote name='みゆきサン' timestamp='1351969638' post='6060366']
That's because you're bad at this game.[/quote]

Bro, Miraculous Descent and Cards from the Sky in Agents...

[quote name='Reborn Black' timestamp='1351969735' post='6060367']
... First off, your initial argument is the same as Dragons deserved REDRUM. So that's complete bullshit.

You pretty much DO mindlessly plus. It doesn't take much thought to use, it [i]can[/i] set up for explosive OTKs, and it works with the actually BALANCED cards with similar restrictions for stupid combos that are only enabled by this card. One turn of no Special Summoning is in no way a viable drawback when Cardcar and Duality exist, plus the fact you can use it when you have something out and don't need to summon that turn. Must have the same name is a restriction that, out of 150~ games with them, has hampered me 1 time. It's not restricted enough, at all. It's a +1 that sets you up for the rest of the game.
[/quote]

This is true, but can you solely place the blame on this when Duality and Cardcar are individual cards? It sets you up, but for what? A very small group of monsters that you can use to perform additional Normal Summons that, at least for the turn you use it, can't lead to anything other than field presence?

I do admit the "Dragons" argument is flawed and not really what I meant by that. I'm saying that with the evident power creep this game has, in order for anything to even be able to keep up and compete it needs to have some kind of relevant effect; when you compare this to the majority of other cards in the game right now, the Deck is still Tier 2 at best. Consistency is amazing but if you can't follow it up with devastating plays (and I don't consider set-up alone as a devastating play because your opponent KNOWS what's going on because they saw you perform the search.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't find the card balanced, but I don't find it broken, either. Given the current game-state I don't think it's that much of a problem.

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Blake Newbie

Blake

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[quote name='- Neo -' timestamp='1351970388' post='6060374']
This is true, but can you solely place the blame on this when Duality and Cardcar are individual cards? It sets you up, but for what? A very small group of monsters that you can use to perform additional Normal Summons that, at least for the turn you use it, can't lead to anything other than field presence?

I do admit the "Dragons" argument is flawed and not really what I meant by that. I'm saying that with the evident power creep this game has, in order for anything to even be able to keep up and compete it needs to have some kind of relevant effect; when you compare this to the majority of other cards in the game right now, the Deck is still Tier 2 at best. Consistency is amazing but if you can't follow it up with devastating plays (and I don't consider set-up alone as a devastating play because your opponent KNOWS what's going on because they saw you perform the search.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't find the card balanced, but I don't find it broken, either. Given the current game-state I don't think it's that much of a problem.
[/quote]
Even without Cardcar and Duality, it's still a turn of set up that leads into easy Synchros and/or Xyz for the rest of the game from that point.

The problem is that power creep is a bit... out of hand, now. Not as much or as speedy as in other games (Looking at you Platinum Lion), but the fact that cards have to be badly designed to an abusable, if not broken, point doesn't really defend the fact that it IS at that point. I understand it's "needed", but that doesn't make it any more balanced or well designed.

It's broken, but not in the same sense of other cards, I'll agree, given its limited searchpool. It's just nowhere close tobeing balanced.

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Not-so-Radiant Arin Newbie

Not-so-Radiant Arin

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[quote name='- Neo -' timestamp='1351970388' post='6060374']
Bro, Miraculous Descent and Cards from the Sky in Agents...
[/quote]

Cards from the Sky, maybe so, but Miraculous Descent isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Especially given that you can just get back whatever you just Banished with Hyperion. Or chain it to MST to get even more Graveyard fodder for Hyperion, or set up for Kristya.

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Blake Newbie

Blake

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[quote name='Agro' timestamp='1351976869' post='6060455']
Oh, Black should have been here for my banlist.
[/quote]
I did comment on your list. It was awful.

[quote name='American Machismo!!!!!' timestamp='1351979792' post='6060510']
This card is awesome, though I wish it wasn't Attribute-restricted so I can search the Thunder Gem-Knights. :(
[/quote]
I made a deck based on that. Then I read LIGHT and I was sad, and had to scrap it.

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Ranma 1/2 Newbie

Ranma 1/2

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[quote name='みゆきサン' timestamp='1352036948' post='6060873']
Not really. Even I acknowledge that I'm "okay" at this game.

But Neo is worse.
[/quote]
Hey! What about me!? [size=1](Or DJVD???)[/size]

Anyway, I get it being a weaker version of thunder dragon, but why the drawback on SSing? That's just stupid.

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newhat Newbie

newhat

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[quote name='YugiohAbridged' timestamp='1352220742' post='6060911']
Anyway, I get it being a weaker version of thunder dragon, but why the drawback on SSing? That's just stupid.
[/quote]

If that weren't in place you could easily make Shock Master as a 1 for 1 every turn. Among other things.

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