Inherent/Noninherent Special Summons

[Shradow]

[b]Inherent Summons:[/b]
Special Summons that do not need an outside force to summon it. They are summoned either by game mechanics or by their own effect. In other words, these Special Summons do not start a chain.

[b]Noninherent Summons:[/b]
Special Summons that are summoned by an outside force, whether it be by another monster's effect, a spell effect, or a trap effect. In other words, these Special Summons start a chain, with the actual summons occurring at its resolution.

It's rare that I find people that actually know about the difference. The most important thing that matters is that cards like Thunder King Rai-Oh or Solemn Warning/Judgement can negate the former, but not the latter. (Warning/Judgement can negate the activation of cards, such as Fusion or Ritual Spell Cards, but not the actual summon.) This is a rather simple explanation, but I'm afraid if I went into complete detail I'd confused both myself and others.

I just found it to be a curious aspect of the game that could possibly have a good discussion, what about you guys?

[Synchronized]

It's a somewhat confusing mechanic for new players but once you get the hang of it, it makes sense. I think Gorz is the one that really confuses me.

[ihop]

How do you differentiate from effects such as Abyssmegalo and High Priestess compared to summoning conditions such as Machina Fortress and Grapha? I heard it's something to do with a semicolon but it's a little murky.

[Synchronized]

[quote name='Kettleblack' timestamp='1354049256' post='6079391']
How do you differentiate from effects such as Abyssmegalo and High Priestess compared to summoning conditions such as Machina Fortress and Grapha? I heard it's something to do with a semicolon but it's a little murky.
[/quote]

I know Machina Fortress and Grapha aren't actually [i]effect[/i]. They're Summoning Conditions, meaning they can be negated by TKRO and the like. With Abyssmegalo, it's almost common-sensical because of the Atlantean effects, but for people who may not understand the way the Deck works I can understand the confusion there; the semi-colon is usually there to indicate that whatever is before it is a cost, and whatever follows an effect. I was under the impression that High Priestess was actually an Inherent Summon, so that one I'm not too sure about.

[Miror B]

[quote name='- Neo -' timestamp='1354049908' post='6079407']
I know Machina Fortress and Grapha aren't actually [i]effect[/i]. They're Summoning Conditions, meaning they can be negated by TKRO and the like. With Abyssmegalo, it's almost common-sensical because of the Atlantean effects, but for people who may not understand the way the Deck works I can understand the confusion there; the semi-colon is usually there to indicate that whatever is before it is a cost, and whatever follows an effect. I was under the impression that High Priestess was actually an Inherent Summon, so that one I'm not too sure about.
[/quote]
But OP says non-inherent summons come from an outside force. Abyssmegalo summons itself though, which is the definition of inherent here except for the last bit, which just looks to be tacked on randomly because not using an outside force doesn't suddenly mean it doesn't start a chain.

[~British Soul~]

[quote name='- Neo -' timestamp='1354049215' post='6079390']
It's a somewhat confusing mechanic for new players but once you get the hang of it, it makes sense. I think Gorz is the one that really confuses me.
[/quote]
Yeah, Gorz sometimes confuses me as well. (Mainly IRL)

[Synchronized]

[quote name='Meta~' timestamp='1354050004' post='6079410']
But OP says non-inherent summons come from an outside force. Abyssmegalo summons itself though, which is the definition of inherent here except for the last bit, which just looks to be tacked on randomly because not using an outside force doesn't suddenly mean it doesn't start a chain.
[/quote]

Yeah, it's a strange card. But that's the way it works regardless. Otherwise it would see no play and would be completely terrible.

[Miror B]

[quote name='- Neo -' timestamp='1354050474' post='6079418']
Yeah, it's a strange card. But that's the way it works regardless. Otherwise it would see no play and would be completely terrible.
[/quote]
I know that's the way it works but it's not strange. It's called an ignition effect. Dark Simorgh has the same deal on it.

[Shradow]

I believe Solemn Warning does work on Gorz, but I know Solemn Judgement can't since it can only negate summons, not monster effects that summon.

[Azphreal]

So does that mean you can't technically use Rai-oh on CotH, Reborn, etc.?
I always knew the distinction existed, but I didn't know that it affected what you could do in response.

[Shradow]

[quote name='Azphreal' timestamp='1354052030' post='6079436']
So does that mean you can't technically use Rai-oh on CotH, Reborn, etc.?
[/quote]

Yes.

[Miror B]

[quote name='Azphreal' timestamp='1354052030' post='6079436']
So does that mean you can't technically use Rai-oh on CotH, Reborn, etc.?
I always knew the distinction existed, but I didn't know that it affected what you could do in response.
[/quote]
There is no "technically"
If it starts a chain, Rai-Oh cannot negate it.

[X-Metaman]

Old article but maybe usefull for some users [url="http://www.konami.com/yugioh/articles/?p=3111"]http://www.konami.com/yugioh/articles/?p=3111[/url]

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

[quote name='Shradow' timestamp='1354051139' post='6079429']
I believe Solemn Warning does work on Gorz, but I know Solemn Judgement can't since it can only negate summons, not monster effects that summon.
[/quote]
It does work on Gorz, but not in the way you're thinking.

Wind-Up Shark and High Priestess of Prophecy are examples of monsters that summon themselves with an effect rather than as a condition.

[EmpoleMew]

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1354055936' post='6079499']
It does work on Gorz, but not in the way you're thinking.
[/quote]

It actually does work the way both of you think.

[Shradow]

I was thinking it could negate his own summon and destroy him, or also negate his effect to summon a token and destroy him.

[EmpoleMew]

That is correct.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

It can negate his own summon, but I was talking about the type of summon. Obviously, you could negate any monster's effect to summon itself, whether by effect or condition.

Anyways, the greatest way to make a distinction with inherent and otherwise special summons is with the targets for Solemn Judgment. Judgment can negate a spell or trap that would summon a monster, but not because of its "or the summon of a monster" effect, and it can negate an inherent summon, but you can't use Solemn Judgment on something like Apprentice Magician or Pyramid Turtle's effect. I have had people try and use it on both. Even in the case of Solemn Warning, you can't wait until the monster is summoned by the effect, you have to negate the effect that would summon it in the first place, before it's there.

[-Berserker-]

At first, the summon of Grapha and Ally Birdman seems the same. The difference seems so subtle yet is important.

[newhat]

I always wonder: Is there an Inherent Special Summon outside the Main Phase?

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

[quote name='newhat' timestamp='1354084661' post='6079951']
I always wonder: Is there an Inherent Special Summon outside the Main Phase?
[/quote]

treeborn and samsara lotus are 2 of them.

[Agro]

[quote name='clairedestroyer' timestamp='1354084858' post='6079952']
treeborn and samsara lotus are 2 of them.
[/quote]Except Treeborn Frog and Samsara Lotus are both effects, not inherent summons.

I cannot think of a single inherent summon that can occur outside of the Main Phase.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

oh. youre right. hmmmmmmm yeah i cant think of any that happen outside the main phase either then.