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The YCM Magic: the Gathering Collaborative Set Project


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[center][size=6][font="georgia"][i][b][u]The YCM Magic: the Gathering Collaborative Set Project[/u][/b][/i][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="courier new"](OR TYCMMTGCSP FOR SHORT)[/font][/size][/center]

So I recently got into Magic and want to make a set, but it’s difficult designing stuff by your lonesome. Therefore, I made this club with the primary objective of creating a top-down set design, e.g. flavor comes first. It would be a wholly collaborative project – everyone would get a say on what to make and include, and things will be voted upon when necessary. Not much more I can say, other than this is going to be fun.

[size=5][font="georgia"][i][b][u]Battle Plan[/u][/b][/i][/font][/size]
[font="georgia"][i][b]i.[/b][/i][/font] Get people to help out. 3-4 people’d be fine to start.
[s][font="georgia"][i][b]ii.[/b][/i][/font] Choose the plane.[/s]
[font="georgia"][i][b]iii.[/b][/i][/font] Flesh out details regarding places, races and central characters. An idea for the central conflict would help.
[font="georgia"][i][b]iv.[/b][/i][/font] Determine the “matters” theme. What’s important to focus on? Casting? Hybrid? Graveyard? How can that be incorporated into the setting?
[font="georgia"][i][b]v.[/b][/i][/font] Work on mechanics. Make a few new ones and determine which previously-exclusive ones we want to see return.
[font="georgia"][i][b]vi.[/b][/i][/font] Draft up a skeleton for the set, including number of cards and color/CMC distribution. Formation of cycle ideas and any possible reprinted cards should start here so we know how to incorporate them.
[font="georgia"][i][b]vii.[/b][/i][/font] Start making cards. Yaaaay!

[size=5][font="georgia"][i][b][u]Participants[/u][/b][/i][/font][/size]
Rinne
.Rai
Vivacious Skyfall
Aesirson

[size=5][font="georgia"][i][b][u]Other Stuff[/u][/b][/i][/font][/size]
[spoiler="Rules, How to Join"]Rules are simple. You need to have a good enough of Magic: the Gathering card grammar and mechanics. You should also have a good creative mind and be willing to accept critical feedback from others.

To join, make a “splash card” design, i.e. one that can go in the set without having specific context or flavor, and post it. Feel free to skip flavor text if you feel. If you’ve got something solid with good grammar and design, you’re in! (Don’t worry, I won’t be too picky at this point.)[/spoiler]
[spoiler="Card Template"][img]http://i.imgur.com/ZQdEH.jpg[/img]

[b]Whip-Spine Drake[/b] - {3}{U}{U}
[u]Creature — Drake[/u]
Flying
Morph {2}{W} [i](You may cast this face down as a 2/2 creature for {2}{W}. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.)[/i]
[i]"I swear the clouds were created just so the drakes would have a place to lurk."
—Kasharri, skyknight[/i]
3/3

[img]http://i.imgur.com/RTXgW.jpg[/img]

[b]Manamorphose[/b] - {1}{R/G}
[u]Instant[/u]
Add two mana in any combination of colors to your mana pool.
Draw a card.
[i]For a moment, objects of pure mana glimmered in the wonderstruck boggart's hands. In the next moment, they were in his mouth, as he chewed contentedly.[/i]

[spoiler="In Code"][code][b]Card name[/b] - {Mana cost, each symbol in curly brackets}
[u]Type — Subtype[/u]
Description
[i]Flavor text[i]
P/T[/code][/spoiler]
[/spoiler]
[spoiler="Also, why is Step 2 crossed out? That’s because I’ve chosen the plane already."][center][IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/15qvguo.jpg[/IMG]
(Thanks, .Rai.)[/center][/spoiler]

[size=5][font="georgia"][i][b][u]Known Info[/u][/b][/i][/font][/size]
[spoiler="Races"]Humans - [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manaw.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gif[/img], secondary [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img]
Spirits - [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manaw.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gif[/img]
Giants - [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gif[/img]
Merfolk - [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img]
Fungus - [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img]
[/spoiler]

[size=5][font="georgia"][i][b][u]Finalized Cards[/u][/b][/i][/font][/size]
[spoiler="Rares"][b]CARDNAME[/b]
[u]Land — Plains Swamp[/u]
[i]([img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manat.gif[/img]: Add [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manaw.gif[/img] or [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gif[/img] to your mana pool.)[/i]
CARDNAME enters the battlefield tapped unless you have cast a white spell or a black spell this turn.

[b]CARDNAME[/b]
[u]Land — Swamp Forest[/u]
[i]([img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manat.gif[/img]: Add [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gif[/img] or [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img] to your mana pool.)[/i]
CARDNAME enters the battlefield tapped unless you have cast a black spell or a green spell this turn.

[b]Wooded Meanders[/b]
[u]Land — Forest Island[/u]
[i]([img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manat.gif[/img]: Add [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img] or [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img] to your mana pool.)[/i]
Wooded Meanders enters the battlefield tapped unless you have cast a green spell or a blue spell this turn.

[b]CARDNAME[/b]
[u]Land — Island Mountain[/u]
[i]([img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manat.gif[/img]: Add [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img] or [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gif[/img] to your mana pool.)[/i]
CARDNAME enters the battlefield tapped unless you have cast a blue spell or a red spell this turn.

[b]CARDNAME[/b]
[u]Land — Mountain Plains[/u]
[i]([img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manat.gif[/img]: Add [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gif[/img] or [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manaw.gif[/img] to your mana pool.)[/i]
CARDNAME enters the battlefield tapped unless you have cast a red spell or a white spell this turn.[/spoiler]

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[b]Restless Eidolons[/b] [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana4.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img]
[b]Creature - Spirit[/b] {R}
Flying
As long as Restless Eidolons is in your graveyard, whenever you cast a spell, target player puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
[b][4/6][/b]

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What did we get...hmmm. So:

[b][u]Main Tribes[/u][/b]

Humans - [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manaw.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img]
Fungus - Primary [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img], Secondary [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manaw.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gif[/img]
Avians - [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manaw.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img]
Harpies - [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gif[/img]

Red race! We don't have one!

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Goblins! 8'D

Joking aside, I don't think we need both harpies and aven, especially because they both serve the role of blue fliers. Maybe scrap one/both of them and move into a different area? We could do merfolk.

Also, the current fungus color spread seems like the same as the treefolk's from Lorwyn, and I thought it wouldn't be the best idea to directly copy that...?

[b]EDIT:[/b] Skyfall, accepted. Any ideas you'd like to bring up? O:

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I think Harpies are much more interesting flavour-wise than avians. So scrap avians.

We can restrict Fungi to either GB or GW. Or you could always keep them as a token tribe involving Saprolings. That makes enough differentiation from the the big, massive Treefolk of Lorwyn. A la [url=http://magiccards.info/query?q=Thallid&v=card&s=cname]Thallids[/url].

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That's how I figure Harpies too. Plot-wise, I'd love to see the world start collapsing into nothingness somewhere in the block, but I'm just a fan of armageddon. I can't actually think of a reasonable plot.

Merfolk, I'd understand to be some sort of archaic race living in the depths and occasionally pop up to observe the world going by or give humans advice or eat them. Or something.

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Well then, let's hop on the plot wagon! :'D

To everyone, a recap. From what we know so far from canon, Arkhos is intended to have a slight Greek/Roman tinge to it, hence choosing harpies. (Fungus came about thinking of mixing dryads and treefolk.) The plane is characterized by very short days and nights, which are separated by long stretches of twilight that give everything an eerie feel.

Also, if anyone hasn't read it yet, I suggest you read the [url="http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/3216"]Nuts and Bolts[/url] series of articles, which should help us put this thing together. They're the first couple of links in this post on another forum. On that note, should we do a large or small set? O: (I'm skipping ahead a bit, but now that I'm thinking about design it should be something we hash out early.)

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Oh look, a colored thread title.
[quote]What if the overall plot of the block echoes a Greek epic like the Iliad or the Odyssey?[/quote]
Didn't Wizards already kinda do something like that with the Weatherlight saga, at least with the whole "band of ragtags team up on an adventure" kinda deal? Political maneuvering, though... that'd be interesting to see. P:<

@Vivacious: What kind of orcs/ogres? We're trying to get things to all mesh nice and well. :'3

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Orcs/ogres automatically come under either troll or Giant. And now I'm thinking of either Cyclopes or [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hekatonkheires]Hundred-handed ones[/url]. I imagine some of them would be ancient intelligent elders, and others idiotic warriors. Gives them a natural fit into blue and red, while it gives a chance to both play about with much bigger creatures than what Blue normally gets and play with some cool abilities.

But if we're doing allied colour lands (River of Tears + the other four versions [UW, RG, GW and BR]), then it does probably make sense to do an allied colour tribe. Which does push us into either RG or BR.

Either that or you can ignore the entire River of Tears and not force it into the set (I personally don't think we should; it's a pretty meh card).

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I second dropping River of Tears, particularly because the futureshifted version of Graven Cairns hinted to Ulgrotha yet it was set on Lorwyn. (Thus, there's no precedent for futureshifted cards being required to appear in the set in which they're "forecasted.") With that, we could do ogres in UR, drop the white for fungus and make them BG... Maybe make all the nonhuman races enemy pair colors? That could migrate harpies into UG, or we could shift them into mermaids. (I like that idea better.)

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I quite like the idea of Mermaids actually (they'll still be Merfolk according to the subtype, but that's not an issue really).

Fungus - [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gif[/img]
Merfolk - [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img]
Giants - [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img]

You would still have to fill White/Black and Red/White, but I think you can cope with just filling four in total (Innistrad coped with four tribes, and, besides, it makes a satisfyingly different feel).

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Humans could bleed into all colors while being centralized in one enemy pair (same as in Innistrad). It's a pretty even tossup between WR or WB, though, and I can't personally decide, so I'll leave it to a crowd vote.

[b]EDIT:[/b] Then, of course, we'd need a fourth nonhuman race to fill the gaps... ;3;

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Quick unfortunate double post for a mechanic reminder (and also defining how fast/slow we want Limited to be). I've also been starting possible designs.

[b]Argent Cyclops [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana5.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img]
Creature - Giant {C}[/b]
When Argent Cyclops enters the battlefield, you may untap target permanent you control.
[b][4/4][/b]

[b]Cartographer of the Seas [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana1.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif[/img]
Creature - Human Scout {U}[/b]
When Cartographer of the Seas enters the battlefield, you may reveal the top five cards of your library. Put all Island cards revealed this way into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
[b][0/1][/b]

[b]Warden of the Aurum [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana2.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img]
Creature - Wurm {R}[/b]
Warden of the Aurum can't be countered.
Vigilance, trample
Whenever Warden of the Aurum blocks, draw a card.
[b][4/5][/b]

[b]Tree of the Aurum [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manax.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img]
Creature - Plant {M}[/b]
Tree of the Aurum enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
Defender
[img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana1.gif[/img][img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manag.gif[/img], [img]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manat.gif[/img]: Put X +1/+1 counters on another target creature and you gain X life, where X is the number of +1/+1 counters on Tree of the Aurum.
[b][0/0][/b]

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Ooh, I like those so far. Had an idea late last night about setting and themes for the flavor, though, so I'll start scribbling those down.
[hr]
[b]Arkhos is a land of stories and inspiration.[/b] Almost eternally hovering on the line between light and day, fantastical creatures crawl across the plane in the murky twilight that envelops it. These creatures inspire legends and hymns in the denizens of Arkhos, and thus they feel it is their eternal goal to chronicle these tales. Humans build bastions of cities, heavily defended to both hold their treasures in and keep the weird creatures that roam outside, out. Giant scholars traipse the mistcloaked mountains that seem to perpetually be on the horizon, deflecting any unwanted visitors with both sophisticated illusions and brute force. Merfolk historimancers swim through the currents of the plane's oceans and rivers, whose water seems to course with the memories of those who've found themselves in it. (blah blah blah, spirits, some special name for fungus?)

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I like that idea a lot. We would need a flavourful mechanic that puts across either:

- Human observation of monsters...
- ...or the weird monsters themselves.

The name, [b]chronicle[/b] or [b]catalogue[/b], intrigues me for a mechanic. I really don't know how to put this across in mechanical terms though. If we're keeping the 'casting matters' theme, which I think is genius, I'd also personally add in Flashback as a returning mechanic and also emphasize cantrips.

[b]Edit:[/b] Alternatively, in the same vein as Curses and Traps, you could create a subtype like Chronicle and make it an enchantment theme.

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Flashback feels too soon because of Innistrad. Buyback could work, though? I'd suggest storm, but if we use reverb (for those who don't know, it's a threshold-esque mechanic where the effect gets boosted if you've cast two or more spells already that turn), it could get crazy real quickly.

I don't see what making a new subtype would do, mechanically-speaking. We'd first have to hash out what the new things we plan on introducing would actually do.

Quest counters or levelers could make a comeback? That would tie in the idea of the epic hero going out on an adventure and becoming enmeshed in legend over time.

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[spoiler=Long talk on mechanics]I did think levelers briefly, but quickly dismissed it. We don't want manasink mechanics really: if we're encouraging to spend mana on spells, we don't also want to encourage spending your mana on levelling. One or the other. I was definitely thinking about Quests though. Extremely flavourful, and, if done similarly to how Zendikar quests were done, then it encourages casting spells well. I was trying to come up with a mechanic that echoed the flavour of being [b]fabled[/b], but I realised that the Legendary supertype basically captures that perfectly anyway. We're trying to make another 'legendary' flavour mechanic, but only because Legendary is an eh mechanic.

Storm is an absolute no-no. It was a design mistake. Buyback, for me, isn't an option - doesn't play very well. I personally have no problem with it being too soon to Innistrad: it's a custom block and there's no need to interact with other sets. All that matters is how it plays within itself. Note that it's not necessarily good design to do something differently for the sake of difference. If a mechanic works, it works. That's why I chose flashback personally. My other choice for a mechanic was Rebound (only problem is that its name is too similar to Reverb, so we'd have to change that name).

Note that with Reverb, it works if you've played [b]one[/b] spell before it. So:

Reverb Lightning Bolt R
Instant
~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
[i]Reverb -[/i]If two or more spells were cast this turn, ~ deals 5 damage to target creature or player instead.

It works providing you played one spell before it. Personally, I like this version better, because making it three or more is virtually impossible in Limited (which is the main format we want the set to be designed for). It does mean designing much more carefully though. Note that you can put Reverb on any card type though, so you can have stronger Reverb abilities on creatures.

I was also looking at tribal synergy. With five tribes, it was almost certain that we want [i]some[/i] tribal element in the set. If we have modal cards like Ghoulcaller's Chant (one mode for generic situations; a better mode for a tribe), we can encourage a better Limited environment. The other way of encouraging the synergy is by joining colours, and encouraging drafting in the colours of the tribe: a cycle of gold tribal rares, and subtler things still. To encourage 'Human' drafting, i.e. Red and White, make use of common/uncommon slots for cards that work well with cards from the other colour (an uncommon lifelinker, and a red firebreathing enchantment?). Same with other tribes: Fungus (black deathtouchers and green fight effects), Merfolk (Ophidian/Scroll Thief effects + +1/+1 counters), Giants (cheap spell copying + expensive burn effects) and Spirits (Lifelink + shade ability).

Lastly, I realised that the set could be quite low on player-player interaction. Therefore, what was really needed was a combat mechanic. I thought up a few with potential names:

- Palisade/Safeguard V1 (Whenever this creature attacks, each other attacking creature gets +0/+1 until end of turn.)
- Palisade/Safeguard V2 (Whenever this creature attacks, it gets +0/+3 until end of turn.)
- The Snowball mechanic (Whenever this creature attacks, put a +1/+1 counter on it. If this creature didn't attack this turn, remove all +1/+1 counters from it at the end of turn.)
- The Slith mechanic "Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, put a +1/+1 counter on it."

My problem with the Palisade abilities is that they have bias towards the smaller and bigger tribes respectively. My second Palisade ability is based on your proposed idea of wizards going out and seeking out these creatures: they're naturally cautious so they put a 'safeguard' up. Snowball is a little out of your control for my liking, while the Slith ability is boring and doesn't flavourfully fit in any tribe. I really want a mechanic that can work to make a diverse Limited format. I want each colour to play with both an aggressive and defensive side. Gives more freedom to the drafter. Therefore, a flexible combat mechanic is needed. Undying and persist work very well, but there's very little design space for them without being repetitive.[/spoiler]


tl;dr

[b]- Diverse Limited format[/b]
- both aggressive and controlling strategies are possible (each colour has a defensive and aggressive style of play; corresponds loosely with the five tribes)
- a flexible combat mechanic

[b]- 'Casting matters'[/b]
- Flashback? Encouraging casting spells by making it more controllable of when you want to cast.
- Rebound? Essentially reducing reverb costs.
- Buyback? For a slower Limited environment.
- Cantrips? Easiest way to do it. Improves Limited environment by speeding it up too. Best design space.
- [i]Reverb -[/i] If you casted two or more spells this turn… Good design space.
- [i]Whenever you cast a spell…[/i] Should almost certainly pop its face in the set.

[b]- Gentle tribal synergy[/b]
- Modal cards, a la Ghoulcaller's Chant
- Encouraging enemy-colour drafting: linked commons/uncommons, gold rares

[b]Edit:[/b] Before delving too far into mechanics, we should flesh out the plane. It helps a lot. Brainstorming:

- Area like the Garden of Hesperides, which is what the Tree in my custom cards post was based off.
- Bastioned cities, like you said.
- Mountain ranges, with many a wandering giant.
- Big seas, to play around with Scylla/Charybdis and other sea monster designs.
- Forest rivers: accentuate the Green-Blue mermaid thing.
- I imagine a few temples and stuff.
- Overgrown caves with gigantic fungal stalactites and stuff in them.
- Lethe Lake idea. I imagine there would be more similar lakes corresponding to other rivers of the Underworld. If not representing them in card form, they're still a great addition to the world.
- An Underworld-inspired area sounds fun anyway.

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Points of discussion!
[spoiler="Limited format:"]I'll put this up front - I've always been a very flavor-centric designer, not just in M:tG but also YGO or pretty much anything I get involved in. I'm not that good at contextualizing things such as these, so if you're better at doing that then by all means do so.[/spoiler]
[spoiler="Casting matters:"]To me, these all say "this spell is gonna be cast twice," but in varying ways. Never was intending on suggesting storm, anyways.
[b]Flashback:[/b] Has the most flexibility, because if you don't want to cast the spell right away you can make the decision later, something that buyback lacks. However, I'm a bit against it because it focuses too much on the graveyard, something that doesn't feel too much "in line" with casting matters.
[b]Buyback:[/b] I like that buyback, as with flashback, encourages mixing colors by having offcolor costs. (Red buyback on a white card, for example. Pseudo-multicolor.) It also keeps the focus around the hand.
[b]Rebound:[/b] My least favorite of the above. You get pigeonholed into the spell going off during an upkeep, and there's little flexibility in whether you want to cast it or not. It also seems to have the bad swinginess of being too good or too bad: cost the spell too low, and it's strictly better than the alternatives; too high, and it's not worth considering. Also, it's interesting to note that of the 11 spells with rebound on them, only 2 are common. 4 are rare and the other 5 are uncommon.
[b]Reverb:[/b] Was meant to be worded as "If you have casted two or more [i]other[/i] spells this turn, blah." I really don't want just one spell before, as that's way too easy to fulfill.[/spoiler]

Bed time, so I'll respond to the other stuff later.

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