Exiro Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Don't worry, the title wasn't a reference to Mermails becoming even more broken. Before moving on to the fun part, we have to fix what's broken. The problem with the current metagame is that hand advantage doesn't mean what it used to mean. If you have more cards in the hand than the opponent, all they have to do is play Spellbook Judgment Day for a free hand refill. Or discard cards from your hand with Moulinglace. And Elemental Dragons don't care whether their cards are in the hand or the Graveyard, as their Graveyard is just another hand. This has broken the game mechanism to the point where it's no longer fun. The field has always been a place where cards come and go all the time, but the hand shouldn't work like that. This format aims to recover the meaning of hand advantage by getting rid of such cards. The fun part The general idea is that it's still easy to gain control of the field, just not to go so far as to OTK. This leaves room for the opponent to regain control in his turn, etc. This is achieved by limiting boss monsters and swarming capabilities while leaving searchers untouched. This keeps the decks consistent, just less extreme in plays. Control is emphasized by unlimiting cards like Royal Oppression and Solemn Judgment. Spell/trap destruction gets a big revise. Heavy Storm is banned, Giant Trunade is unlimited, and Cold Wave is limited. This way, spells and traps can be dealt with more consistently, but still in a less extreme way (without gaining card advantage). Finally, some old cards like Dark Magician of Chaos are reintroduced and some previously limited cards are unlimited. Most notably, Gorz is at three. Completely eliminating the opponent is always harder than it may seem. The list Just for the record, this list works on top of whatever official list is currently in effect. [spoiler=Banned] Moulinglacia the Elemental Lord Morphing Jar Naturia Beast Heavy Storm Monster Reborn Spellbook Jugdment Day Super Rejuvenation Card Destruction Pot of Avarice Limiter Removal Megamorph United We Stand Ultimate Offering Epidemic Eradication Virus Return from the Different Dimension Chain Material Hope for Escape [/spoiler] [spoiler=Limited] Blaster, Elemental Dragon of Calderas Redox, Elemental Dragon of Crags Tempest, Elemental Dragon of Cyclones Tidal, Elemental Dragon of Cascades High Priestess of Prophecy Dark Magician of Chaos Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World Mermail Abyssmegalo Judgment Dragon Wulf, Lightsworn Beast Master Hyperion Superancient Deepsea King Coelacanth Demise, King of Armageddon Karakuri Shogun MDL 00 "Burei" Karakuri Stell Shogun MDL 00X "Bureido"Gladiator Beast Gyzarus Cold Wave Six Samurai United Salvage Rekindling [/spoiler] [spoiler=Unlimited] Gorz the Emissary of Darkness Tragoedia The Agent of Mystery - Earth Archlord Kristya Thunder King Rai-Oh Neo-Spacian Grand Mole Goyo Guardian Giant Trunade Book of Moon Reinforcement of the Army Pot of Duality Scapegoat Solemn Judgment Solemn Warning Royal Oppression Bottomless Trap Hole The Transmigration Prophecy [/spoiler] Tell me if I missed anything. I haven't really seen Fire Fists in action, but I don't know what to hit either. They seem to work like Blackwings, where the power comes from the cards in general, not from anything in specific. Feel free to ask for clarification on any of the cards. And do tell if you're interested in playing a tourney with this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 The banlist for this is fucking awful and you should feel ashamed for making it. I mean, do you know anything about how banlists and design work, or did you just throw a bunch of cards onto the list that you like/don't like? Gorz at 3 alone shows how awful it is, seeing as Gorz is a completely NEGATIVE game presence. It just causes AWFUL mind games that say you don't deserve to win while your opponent has at least 1 card in their hand, and rewards you way too much for a single card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hounds Of Anubis Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I actually died laughing at the unlimited section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I mean no offense, but while a few of your choices for this are a step in the direction you're looking for, 90% of the changes you're making actually make the game more OTK and less strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflame Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Why this. It's pretty hard to turn the tides around when you're already dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiro Posted April 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 The banlist for this is fucking awful and you should feel ashamed for making it. I mean, do you know anything about how banlists and design work, or did you just throw a bunch of cards onto the list that you like/don't like? I'm quite sure I've stated the list's intentions at the top. Try reading next time. Gorz at 3 alone shows how awful it is, seeing as Gorz is a completely NEGATIVE game presence. It just causes AWFUL mind games that say you don't deserve to win while your opponent has at least 1 card in their hand, and rewards you way too much for a single card. I'm fully aware how extreme Gorz at 3 is. This list is meant to be extreme. If you don't want any broken cards, feel free to play with Atem's list. I, for one, am going for something less boring. That being said, I think you're blowing this up. All decks have their broken boss monsters limited. Instead, every deck gets to play one universal boss monster. Okay, maybe I should've given you guys a heads-up by naming this the Triple-Gorz list, because finding out that there's three Gorzes in the list that isn't advertized as such is obviously not something people can compute. I mean no offense, but while a few of your choices for this are a step in the direction you're looking for, 90% of the changes you're making actually make the game more OTK and less strategy. Well, I've made 54 changes. Point out 49 changes that make the game more OTK and less strategy. And - this as a general comment - I realize the list isn't finished. You can help by pointing out specific cards you have a problem with as well as which decks are going to OTK and because of which cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I don't know what to hit either. Yup. I can see that. Well, I've made 54 changes. Point out 49 changes that make the game more OTK and less strategy. I'll stick with Giant Trunade as the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I'm quite sure I've stated the list's intentions at the top. Try reading next time. Black is quite capable of reading. I'm fully aware how extreme Gorz at 3 is. This list is meant to be extreme. If you don't want any broken cards, feel free to play with Atem's list. I, for one, am going for something less boring. If by extreme you mean retarded and completely unfun, then yes, your list is quite extreme. That being said, I think you're blowing this up. All decks have their broken boss monsters limited. Instead, every deck gets to play one universal boss monster. I'd rather have diversity in boss monsters than one single semi-retarded one being present at 3 for gods' sake. Okay, maybe I should've given you guys a heads-up by naming this the Triple-Gorz list, because finding out that there's three Gorzes in the list that isn't advertized as such is obviously not something people can compute. It's something we can't compute because it's a really bad idea. Well, I've made 54 changes. Point out 49 changes that make the game more OTK and less strategy. Are you familiar with the word "hyperbole"? Just curious. And - this as a general comment - I realize the list isn't finished. You can help by pointing out specific cards you have a problem with as well as which decks are going to OTK and because of which cards. Problem choices: triple of each solemn, triple oppression, triple krystia, DMoC at 1, bottomless at 3, goyo at 3, ROTA at 3, ang giant trunade at 3. No offense, but your list is kinda really bad and doesn't address the main concerns of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiro Posted April 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Tell me what's wrong with triple Solemn, Oppression, Krystia, Bottomless, Goyo, and RotA. Also, tell me the main concerns of the game. Giant Trunade at 3 is part of the concept. You play around spells and traps only temporarily so you have room to breathe and summon monsters without worrying about traps. If a Trunade is followed up by an OTK, obviously the OTK is the problem and I'm willing to limit and ban cards until it's no longer the norm to follow up with an OTK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Fascist Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Tell me what's wrong with triple Solemn, Oppression, Krystia, Bottomless, Goyo, and RotA. Triple SJ was basicially whoever drew more Solemns won and "Solemn Tennis" would happen where players would bounce back Solemn at Solemn, for instance. These cards are clearly problems at this quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 How about I trunade, drop everything on your ass and proceed to win with a backrow of Solemns and Oppressions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Triple SJ was basicially whoever drew more Solemns won and "Solemn Tennis" would happen where players would bounce back Solemn at Solemn, for instance. These cards are clearly problems at this quantity.Being able to conserve and win Solemn wars was actually skillful =\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Fascist Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Being able to conserve and win Solemn wars was actually skillful =\ Solemn Tennis ftw. Shame this format wouldn't promote such things, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiro Posted April 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 How about I trunade, drop everything on your ass and proceed to win with a backrow of Solemns and Oppressions? The 'drop everything on your ass' part is what should be toned down. And with 3 Solemns and 3 Gorz is the game, that isn't as likely to succeed as it may seem. Are you starting to get the hang of it? Solemn Tennis ftw. Shame this format wouldn't promote such things, though. If you read Solemn Judgment and you have no other outs to the opponent's backrow, depending on the situation, it may be better to set your own Solemn first. If there's triple Solemn, there's bound to be Solemn Tennis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 The 'drop everything on your ass' part is what should be toned down. And with 3 Solemns and 3 Gorz is the game, that isn't as likely to succeed as it may seem. Are you starting to get the hang of it? Have you playtested this format? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiro Posted April 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Have you playtested this format? Nope; this is just a first draft. I do think the best way to go forward from here is to actually playtest it, though, which I'm up for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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