byak Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 // Banned // Archlord Kristya Atlantean Dragoons Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning Blackwing - Kalut the Moonshadow Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Chicken Constellar Sombres Dark Armed Dragon Dragunity Knight - Vajrayana Elemental HERO Stratos Evilswarm Kerykeion Exodia the Forbidden One Geargigant X Gladiator Beast Equeste Gorz the Emissary of Darkness Grandsoil the Elemental Lord Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World Harpie Channeler High Priestess of Prophecy Honest Infernity Archfiend Inzektor Hornet Judgment Dragon Koa'ki Meiru Doom Lava Golem Machina Fortress Master Hyperion Mermail Abyssmegalo Mezuki Morphing Jar Moulinglace the Elemental Lord Naturia Bambooshoot Nimble Angler Ninja Grandmaster Hanzo Nurse Reficule the Fallen One Reaper of Prophecy Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon Rescue Rabbit Sephylon the Ultimate Time Lord Spore Superancient Deepsea King Coelacanth Thunder Seahorse Tour Guide From the Underworld Treeborn Frog Volcanic Queen War God Vessel - Habakiri Wind-Up Magician Wulf, Lightsworn Beast XX-Saber Faultroll Demise, King of Armageddon Herald of Perfection Fabled Ragin Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei" Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En Naturia Beast Shooting Quasar Dragon T.G. Hyper Librarian Vylon Sigma Blade Armor Ninja Constellar Ptolemy M7 Daigusto Emeral Daigusto Phoenix Evolzar Dolkka Evolzar Laggia Gaia Dragon the Thunder Charger Heroic Champion - Excalibur Hieratic Dragon King of Atum Lavalval Chain M.X-Saber Invoker Madolche Queen Tiaramisu Number 11: Big Eye Number 16: Shock Master Number 33: Chronomaly Machu Mech Number 61: Volcasaurus Superdreadnought Rail Cannon Gustav Max Blaze Fenix, the Burning Bombardment Bird Chimeratech Fortress Dragon Elemental HERO Air Neos Evil HERO Dark Gaia Gladiator Beast Gyzarus Allure of Darkness Black Whirlwind Card Destruction Chain Strike Charge of the Light Brigade Final Countdown Gateway of the Six Gem-Knight Fusion Gishki Aquamirror Limiter Removal Machine Duplication Mind Control Miracle Fusion Monster Reborn Night Beam One Day of Peace One for One Onslaught of the Fire Kings Pot of Avarice Reasoning Rekindling Royal Tribute Solar Recharge Spellbook Judgment Day Spellbook of Secrets Super Rejuvenation The Grand Spellbook Tower Vylon Element Wind-Up Factory All-Out Attacks Bad Reaction to Simochi Chain Material Imperial Iron Wall Return from the Different Dimension Secret Barrel Self-Destruct Button Starlight Road Ultimate Offering W Nebula Meteorite // Limit // Blackwing - Vayu the Emblem of Honor Blaster, Elemental Dragon of Calderas Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Bear Collapserpent the Ebony Dragon Crane Crane Debris Dragon Deep Sea Diva Enthusiastic Beastman Wolfberk Geargiarmor Koa'ki Meiru Urknight Madolche Magileine Mermail Abyssteus Redox, Elemental Dragon of Crags Ronintoadin Sangan Tempest, Elemental Dragon of Cyclones Tidal, Elemental Dragon of Cascades Watthopper Wyburstar the Ivory Dragon Karakuri Steel Shogun mdl 00X "Bureido" King Feral Imp Evo-Force Fire Formation - Tenki Forbidden Lance Hysteric Sign Mystical Space Typhoon Call of the Haunted Mirror Force Skill Drain Torrential Tribute // Semilimit // Cardcar D Dandylion Shard of Greed // Unlimit // Left Arm of the Forbidden One Left Leg of the Forbidden One Right Arm of the Forbidden One Right Leg of the Forbidden One Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind Card Trooper Gladiator Beast - Bestiari Neo-Spacian Grandmole T.G. Striker Thunder King Rai-Oh Tsukuyomi Formula Synchron A Hero Lives Advanced Ritual Art Book of Moon E - Emergency Call Hieratic Seal of Convocation Magical Stone Excavation Pot of Duality Primal Seed Scapegoat The point of this banlist is to reduce the amount of degenerate solitaire decks (ex: Final Countdown, Exodia, etc), strict control cards (ex: Evolzars, Kristya, Herald), and cards that only existed to OTK you (ex: Judgment Dragon, Archfiend, Faultroll, Sephylon, etc) to flatten out the metagame. This is an attempt to make the best decks the ones that can spend games trying to outplay other decks and grind out advantage. In order to create a game like this, several cards that generate easy advantage were hit (ex: Stratos, Cardcar, Diva, Marksman) so it's harder to gain card advantage over your opponent. This list isn't set in stone and hasn't been playtested, but I'd like to playtest it because it feels like it would be fun and I want input. Some of the more important changes were Night Beam to 0, MST to 1, Lance to 1, and Book to 3. I feel like a healthy format should contain 1 MST 1 Heavy in terms of general backrow removal. Night Beam ruins this idea and play that it promotes is degenerate, so I felt like it shouldn't exist here. In addition to this, I didn't think Lance helped this ideal situation either, since it can counter most staple traps in a similar fashion to MST (albeit being chained to the backrow, but you should be able to understand my point). While Book of Moon also does this, it does it less effectively so I felt like switching them around would be a good idea. Once again, this all needs to be tested. Things I'm currently looking over: Psychics Evols Staple traps Forbidden Lance Machina Mermail Frogs Nimble Angler Hieratic Agents I'm probably missing other stuff and some stuff might be not needed, but the point is to turn Yugioh into a game where matches can consistently take up the forty minute time limits they're given to begin with. You might complain that Rekindling or Evolzars might be necessary for their archetypes to be playable, but at the same time they aren't acceptable in a fun game environment, and the decks still have other playable cards (In those two examples, you still have very good engines that can do a lot of cool stuff, just not explosive or lock down esque stuff). Additionally, you might think that most decks are unplayable now. However, this doesn't hold very true. There are still a ton of playable engines that you can use to build a deck. Just because archetypes are nerfed doesn't mean actual ygo decks are nerfed. If you have a question on specific choices feel free to ask. I'm not going to be stubborn about choices because I'm not 100% on all of them myself and I'd actually like to discuss with YCM on stuff like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Overall, looks good, and I'd love to test, but I'd suggest one change. I'd Limit Thunder Seahorse at least. It's absolutely stupid design that rewards you way too much for what you do, and basically sets you up for the entire game off of even 1 of them. It'd be a really lucksacky card that just wins games it doesn't deserve to win at 2. I'd honestly like to see it banned, despite playing the deck, but I think you should at least put it at 1, seeing as it's a Double RotA that doesn't require any real effort to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 This actually looks incredibly fun for a format. I'd love to test this too. And what of Dandylion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I want to put it to two because of personal bias but I want to think it over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflame Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 YCM stahp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 thank you for providing input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 For mermails, I'd recommend sphere to 1. I'd also like to ask why lavalval chain is @0, out of curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 oh I just noticed lack of Gustkraken on this list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I mean it's still at one. I guess it seems degenerate but it also seems hard to loop with. It isn't very fun to play with though. For mermails, I'd recommend sphere to 1. I'd also like to ask why lavalval chain is @0, out of curiosity. After testing, Mermails access to rank 7 doesn't seem fair. The problem there stems from the overabundance of boss monsters or just Gunde. I'm leaning towards Gunde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Gunde would be a solid hit. Also, perhaps squall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 I'm just going to limit Gunde for now. Also, banning Gustkraken. Probably going to hit Sea Horse harder as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 I can see Junk Doppel for tier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 I can see Junk Doppel for tier 1 Shhhhhh, say nothing. [spoiler='Okay, seriousness']I don't know how one would go about hitting Junkdoppel... Junk synchron to 2? Doppel to 1? Idk[/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 I can see Junk Doppel for tier 1 Maybe? I mean Librarian is at 0 and the deck lost a lot of limited spells so I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Maybe? I mean Librarian is at 0 and the deck lost a lot of limited spells so I dunno. Still 3 tuning and quasar is an option, which seems kinda instawin for a slow format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Oh, well Quasar shouldn't exist to begin with. That's gonna get added to the banned section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 [spoiler=Ban pls][/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Yeah, one of my friends brought up Reficule after he saw Simochi so I figured I should. I can agree with Limiter too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cute Rotten Yoshika Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 very good list. i would honestly say bureido deserves the hit more than burei, as it generates quite a bit of advantage and its basically free advantage if you pull nishipachi from deck. of course you are more than welcome to hit both as well. also i would be interested in seeing chain strike being hit, as its dumb and monotonous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Assuming no movement on MoF because of how slow the format would be? Also, Necrovalley or Call of the Haunted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jord200 Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Hate it. // Banned // Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World High Priestess of Prophecy Infernity Archfiend Madolche Queen Tiaramisu Number 16: Shock Master Number 33: Chronomaly Machu Mech Number 61: Volcasaurus // Limit // Madolche Magileine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97du1N7Znb0 I'll agree to Gorz when/if we Snowplow Engine Hustle Rustle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Hate it. because broke xyz and a monster that can float infinitely are great for slowgrind format Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 There has to be a way to dislike Jord's post. Just has to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Hate it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97du1N7Znb0 I'll agree to Gorz when/if we Snowplow Engine Hustle Rustle. So... care to tell us how all of those cards aren't banworthy? After Launcher, the biggest offender in Infernity is Archfiend. Without it, Necromancer doesn't do a bunch of retarded shit. Tell me why Priestess deserves life. Tell me how 33 is' OTK only card design. Tell me how Shock Master doesn't steal games that have no business being stolen? Tell me how Volca isn't a Ring of Destruction on legs? Tell me how Tiaramisu is even remotely fine design? Remind me how searchers are wonderful design overall? Only thing that remotely caught me off guard was Grapha @0, but if you read WHAT he's going for, it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jord200 Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 So... care to tell us how all of those cards aren't banworthy? After Launcher, the biggest offender in Infernity is Archfiend. Without it, Necromancer doesn't do a bunch of retarded shit. People still use Infernity....? Tell me why Priestess deserves life. Point, but I think she could at least go to 1 and see what happens. If she is still a problem, the she gets the banhammer. Being said, I don't know that much about Prophesy decks. I actually have yet to go up against one. No really.... Tell me how 33 is' OTK only card design. Point taken. Tell me how Shock Master doesn't steal games that have no business being stolen? BIG point. Tell me how Volca isn't a Ring of Destruction on legs? I would make a sarcastic comeback, but you have a point. Tell me how Tiaramisu is even remotely fine design? Not saying anything. Remind me how searchers are wonderful design overall? Agreed. Only thing that remotely caught me off guard was Grapha @0, but if you read WHAT he's going for, it makes sense. Now that I've reread it, I understand. Though, there is a card I'm amazed isn't anywhere on the list, Big Eye. As in the Number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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