General Normal Monster Discussion

[Zazubat]

Normal Monsters, are they even at the same level of discussion as effect monsters? Are some considered broken? Talk about archetypes which are about mainly/rely mainly Normal Monsters (Gem-Pearl, Hieratic etc.) Talk about their support cards, how Gemini Monsters play into things, as well as non-Effect monsters and pretty much everything Normal Monsters.

[Azuh]

The problem with the game is that Normal Monsters, par Rabbit have no edge over their Effect Monster counterparts. Resource-like games such as Cardfight/MtG often can allow creatures with no effects have some sort of dominance over an effect counterpart by making them easier to play and do what they do best. Cards in Yugioh often contradict the aspect of Normal Monsters by having cards such as Thunder King, Boggart Knight, and even cards like Thrasher having quite dominating power in both effects and attack.

[L0SS]

Show me a good Normal Monster and I'll show you three Effect Monsters.

 

It's like Azuh said, there is always something more useful. Normal Monsters are actually viewed as a restriction, e.g Rabbit/Advanced Ritual/Hieratic stuff imposing the use of Normal Monsters in order to make their effects more balanced. 

[Zazubat]

It's like Azuh said, there is always something more useful. Normal Monsters are actually viewed as a restriction, e.g Rabbit/Advanced Ritual/Hieratic stuff imposing the use of Normal Monsters in order to make their effects more balanced. 

That's actually an interesting perspective and raises some good questions. Are they more balanced because of it? Is The Agent of Creation - Venus more balanced because it Summons Normal Monsters? Are Hieratics more balanced because they use Normal Monsters? Some would disagree, though it can be viewed as such. I'm not quite sure about it yet, since I havn't thought about it long enough.

[sbdnate]

I think the only time you would even begin to consider running a normal monster would be if it were a lvl 4 beater with at least 2200 attack. Even then, there are still better things to do with that normal summon that will actually do something for you. Normal monsters only have raw stats, why use that over something with the same stats and an, even if mediocre, effect?

[Sleepy]

I believe Normal Monsters should be splashable enough to put in lots of deck variants and be legit choices. When that happens, it'll be a positive aspect to talk about in the game, but Konami messed up even Type and Attribute support and decided to go for Archetypes when there was still miles and miles of ground to explore. Without addressing those 2 aspects, they also can't give Normal Monsters any distinctive tactical features based on them. I think they are somewhat starting to gain more attention, although it's still not enough.

 

Normal Monsters are used in:

-Rabbit. Which includes:

*WIND Level 4's (Chidori)

*Dinosaur Level 4's (Evolzars)

*Evilswarms (archetype-specific Xyzs)

*WATER (that Shark thing)

-Mystical Shine Balls in Agents

-Happy Lover in Perfect Herald

-Blue-Eyes

-Dark Magician/Neos/Red-Eyes/Summoned Skull/ Skull Servant for more casual builds

-Watt Dragon in Hyeratics

-Advanced Ritual Art for whatever your need is in vanillas.

-Vorz/G.B/Ninken Dog(?)  (Tenki)

 

That's about all they have.

Not yet there.

 

 

Most are underwhelming uses, or Xyzs make them work.

[Aix]

What if you could Tribute Summon 1 Normal Monster in addition to your Normal Summon/Set? :O

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

What about a lv.4 with 2900atk? That would curb the whole effect monsters are better. lol

[Sleepy]

Rather suggest that they just make new ones with bigger stats and forget about the 600+ existing ones. It is better if they just keep improving vanilla usage with actual support.

 

If they do something radical like 3000 ATK Level 6 or 2500 ATK Level 4 monsters, what will happen is that they'll just give themselves green light to reposition their 3k giant limit higher, and with time, Effect Monsters will catch up again. Not to mention what we have in the current game is already dangerous for our petty 8000 starting Life Points. If you look closely you'll see that even though effects are stronger in this era, ATK aberage is actually lower than in the Synchro era. Which is a good thing I wouldn't want to change.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Rather suggest that they just make new ones with bigger stats and forget about the 600+ existing ones. It is better if they just keep improving vanilla usage with actual support.

 

If they do something radical like 3000 ATK Level 6 or 2500 ATK Level 4 monsters, what will happen is that they'll just give themselves green light to reposition their 3k giant limit higher, and with time, Effect Monsters will catch up again. Not to mention what we have in the current game is already dangerous for our petty 8000 starting Life Points. If you look closely you'll see that even though effects are stronger in this era, ATK aberage is actually lower than in the Synchro era. Which is a good thing I wouldn't want to change.

I was only joking you know? ^^; lol

[Sleepy]

I was only joking you know? ^^; lol

Don't worry ;D
It was not directly addressing you.

There are people that have the opinion that Vanillas need to be made with more ATK, because it's their only true asset.

For example, Supreme_Slayer supports that iirc.

Which is not an entirely invalid argument, but in my humble opinion, it'd be dangerous and not really the solution.

 

 

Although I'm a bit biased on how I enjoy undermeta a lot so, as long as they are cool and fun to use, I really don't mind them not getting all that tier 1 potential at all. Actually, it is bad to me when they do reach that level, because tier 1 are always the broken decks of the moment.

[jeramigamer]

You can make a deck mostly of support cards that swarm normal monsters of the same level to the field to focus on bringing out xyz monsters then u fill in the deck with staple spell or traps. Overwhelm your opponent with xyzs, sounds good but i need to test it more

[swag swag swag swag swag s]

You can make a deck mostly of support cards that swarm normal monsters of the same level to the field to focus on bringing out xyz monsters then u fill in the deck with staple spell or traps. Overwhelm your opponent with xyzs, sounds good but i need to test it more

 

Implying that wouldn't be slow as fuck.

 

The only Normal Monsters that are used are Gene Warped, Vorse Raider, Sabersaurus, Kabazauls, Blue Eyes, Shine balls and Heliotrope. The rest are sub-par or are undersupported.

[L0SS]

Implying that wouldn't be slow as fuck.

 

The only Normal Monsters that are used are Gene Warped, Vorse Raider, Sabersaurus, Kabazauls, Blue Eyes, Shine balls and Heliotrope. The rest are sub-par or are undersupported.

Watt Dragon, bitches. But yeah, sort of true. A few more archetypes use them, too, like Aliens and Noble Knights. Mainly Rabbit fodder, though.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

What should happen with Normal Monsters should be an adept form of gameplay for them with proper support that actually makes it worthwhile to run said Normal Monsters.

 

Cards like Azure-Eyes Silver Dragon who promote "Normal Monsters" as additional bonuses, or Noble Knights who promote play based on having certain types of Normal Monsters (LIGHT) then you start to reach a point where Normal Monsters actually take part in a very unique for of game play for certain decks...and not some "Rabbit" Fodder deck that just uses them for fuel.

 

Normal Monsters should probably have support that give off good benefits for actually running said Normal Monster or "perks" for using/utilizing said Normal Monster besides just using them for "food", something which Hieratics and Rabbit do most profoundly,

[Suibon]

Normal Monsters, are they even at the same level of discussion as effect monsters?

 

No. I don't know how other card games treat their vanilla equivalents, but in a game where everything is dominated by effects, being a vanilla whose only bragging right is its stats -- which tends to lose its luster once the vanilla cannot be readily Normal Summoned or isn't already part of some other effect or combo of effects -- is unneeded extra flavor that cannot hope to influence either its user's or the opponent's actions at any time beyond extremely simplified situations.

 

In other words -- a design mishap, and a gigantic one at that.

[Therrion]

Gawayn was a step in the right direction, and honestly, Rabbit was too.

They just need to keep getting more and more support.

Alternatively, future Normal Monsters could be presented in the way the Noble Knights/Gemini were (basically Normal until a condition is met). That would increase playability. (Have a massive rehaul with Gemini, making them Normal everywhere excluding when they gain their effects, then add massive support to Normal Monsters with that in mind). However, Konami would never do such a thing. They are finally releasing 2 Geminis after so long, and only one of them help the Sub-Type to a degree.

Either way, I'd be happy.