E dragon deck? Well have I got a [Shock Master] for you...

[Mr. guy]

 

Discuss what I have come to realize is the best answer to Elemental Dragons and Prophecies.

 

I personally think that it's low ATK balances out the fact that it completely shuts your opponent off of one card type; A good deck should have a good balance of spells, traps and monsters.

[Blake]

A. Thats a stupid point. The stats don't balance that it's Cold Wave/Imperial Order when dropping it correctly.
B. That's also a stupid point because a "balance" of them punishes deck building. What, does Monster Mash not deserve to exist? Some decks prefer to be monster heavy, others trap heavy, and others still spell heavy. You can't open-and-close say that decks should have a balance, or you're being as dumb as that kid that told shard he needed 20 monster Infernities.

Also, thaks for stating the absolute obvious about Shock Master v. the Format.

[Parsee]

Very, very necessary.

[Superdoopertrooper]

A. Thats a stupid point. The stats don't balance that it's Cold Wave/Imperial Order when dropping it correctly.
B. That's also a stupid point because a "balance" of them punishes deck building. What, does Monster Mash not deserve to exist? Some decks prefer to be monster heavy, others trap heavy, and others still spell heavy. You can't open-and-close say that decks should have a balance, or you're being as dumb as that kid that told shard he needed 20 monster Infernities.

Also, thaks for stating the absolute obvious about Shock Master v. the Format.

 

You could, loosely speaking, say that about any card which counters a certain deck. "Soul drain shouldn't exist because Graveyard based decks deserve to exist", which is incorrect. Shock Master also doesn't destroy the existence of Monster Mash decks either, it's merely something they must be weary of. Most decks can't even make it reliably, so it's an entirely moot point regardless. Dragon Rulers are for most intents and purposes a total Monster based deck and can get pretty crippled at the right time if a Shock Master is dropped, yet they are still the best/equal best deck of the format. Monster mash also has inherent summon monsters to run over it. OP is right in saying that losing to this card is, for the most part, your decks own fault, and Shock Master is not unbalanced because of a deck building decision you made. You make a deck that has a certain weakness, you have to live with it. Not everything can be the jack of all trades. Your deck doesn't have to have a balance of S/T/M, but if it doesn't, it must accept certain consequences.

 

Cold Wave and Imperial Order also aren't a -2 to make, are far more difficult to prevent and don't require any combination of other cards to do what they do, you simply draw them and use them.

[Sleepy]

You could, loosely speaking, say that about any card which counters a certain deck. "Soul drain shouldn't exist because Graveyard based decks deserve to exist", which is incorrect.

 

*Raises hand*

I'm on the thought that if something kills a certain mechanic too much, and themes exist around it that absolutely depend on it, it is a bad design choice. I mean, effects that disrupt certain plays are obviously allowed to exist, but some room for escape needs to also be left open.  It should be "X side option helps you against Y deck more" not "X side option automatically kills Y deck if I draw it".

If the deck disrupted by itself is derpy enough to need something drastic against it, that is a root in the problem to begin with.

 

 

Shock Master also doesn't destroy the existence of Monster Mash decks either, it's merely something they must be weary of. Most decks can't even make it reliably, so it's an entirely moot point regardless. Dragon Rulers are for most intents and purposes a total Monster based deck and can get pretty crippled at the right time if a Shock Master is dropped, yet they are still the best/equal best deck of the format. Monster mash also has inherent summon monsters to run over it. OP is right in saying that losing to this card is, for the most part, your decks own fault, and Shock Master is not unbalanced because of a deck building decision you made.You make a deck that has a certain weakness, you have to live with it. Not everything can be the jack of all trades. Your deck doesn't have to have a balance of S/T/M, but if it doesn't, it must accept certain consequences.

but the way these themes are constructed, you can't really alter the way they work too much. Regardless of the spells you might wanna add to your Dragon Rulers, Monsters are still the best call for Shock master, and regardless of what more good monsters you wanna use, Spellbooks are still Spell-heavy enough for Shock Master to want to call Spells. I'd like to see an example of a build that can make it otherwise.

I mean, the occational Trap is always an option, but other than that, you can't really alter something like Dragon Rulers to stop depending mostly on their own monsters' effects to work, which means Shock Master is not as fair as you are making it out to be.

 

Cold Wave and Imperial Order also aren't a -2 to make, are far more difficult to prevent and don't require any combination of other cards to do what they do, you simply draw them and use them.

Shock Master doesn't need you to wait until you draw it to work, and it allows you to use your own effects before activating it. The -2 hardly matters, most decks are meant to be able to Xyz nowadays, it's just natural.

[swag swag swag swag swag s]

Kagetokage + Rabbit = 1st turn Shocklock. Watching E-Dragon players quit after you summon this is bretty gud.

[Wildflame]

And let's not even talk about Mermails, they are probably more screwed than E-Dragons and Prophecy when this comes out.

 

It's a benign card this format. And that's seriously fucked up.

[Sora1499]

It's a benign card this format. And this format is seriously fucked up.

Fixed.

 

Also trooper's being an idiot.  Who's surprised?

 

Aaaanyways, this card is like all 3 naturia synchros put together.  Should rot in hell along with my babies Trish and Brio.

[evilfusion]

Obligatory mention that it had an incredibly awesome Summon in the anime.

 

Card is ridiculous, but you don't really notice this until you've faced it a few times and realized how badly it shuts you down. Killing Shock Master after it's used the effect won't re-enable your card use that turn, which is a sharp contrast to cards like Soul Drain or similar. If your Deck is oriented around that type of card, because the archetype or theme is designed that way, then the only fault is that you chose to run that archetype or theme. Changing the Deck around to prevent Shock Master from screwing you over only reduces your Deck's consistency when Shock Master isn't involved.

 

The low ATK is a balancing factor, but there's also the problem that multiple Shock Masters can shut you down more. Shock Master is only deadly when you DON'T have an advantage. If you've got a solid presence, Shock Master isn't a huge threat, some circumstances obviously changing that. But if your opponent Shock Masters you, you may be stuck doing next to nothing for 3 turns with almost no chance of taking Shock Master out sooner, depending on your Deck.

 

I also happen to be the type of  person who rarely considers Shock Master as an option in most of my Rank 4 Decks, even if I run it in the Extra Deck. I suppose it's because if I have the advantage, I don't see a need to shut down my opponent, and if I don't have the advantage, one of my other Xyz are better at handling it.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

there is no solid reasoning that states that shutting down a third of the game on a 2300 body is a good thing. "dont run lopsided decks" is fucking moronic because decks have focused on 1 or 2 of the 3 card types for years. are you suggesting we go back to 20/10/10 or 20/12/8 or all those fun beginning of the game decks that were just throw useless vanillas and lp changing cards at each other? theres very few decks nowadays that have "enough" of a mix of effects to make shock master benign, especially when its hard to climb over 2300 using only non-shitty inherent summons or (god forbid) tribute summons. or they can call spells and have a trap heavy backrow to shut down your monsters. or whatever. and even if decks are "balanced enough" (again, impossible) theres no guarantee your hands will be. maybe the only monster removal you draw in your hand is spell based. whoops, they called spells. too bad for you because you got unlucky with your "balanced" deck. it needs to go to zero, and thats the end of the matter.

[Miror B]

All decks should run 13 Monsters, 13 Spells and 13 Traps with 1 Vanilla so they're no longer lopsided.

[Superdoopertrooper]

there is no solid reasoning that states that shutting down a third of the game on a 2300 body is a good thing. "dont run lopsided decks" is fucking moronic because decks have focused on 1 or 2 of the 3 card types for years. are you suggesting we go back to 20/10/10 or 20/12/8 or all those fun beginning of the game decks that were just throw useless vanillas and lp changing cards at each other? theres very few decks nowadays that have "enough" of a mix of effects to make shock master benign, especially when its hard to climb over 2300 using only non-shitty inherent summons or (god forbid) tribute summons. or they can call spells and have a trap heavy backrow to shut down your monsters. or whatever. and even if decks are "balanced enough" (again, impossible) theres no guarantee your hands will be. maybe the only monster removal you draw in your hand is spell based. whoops, they called spells. too bad for you because you got unlucky with your "balanced" deck. it needs to go to zero, and thats the end of the matter.

 

The butthurt is strong in this one.

[Mehmani]

Kind of what Evilfusion said: the reason this card is such poor design is that it works against the spirit of game - having fun. A well-designed card should aim to equalize the playing field, but this card is particularly useful when the user is in an advantageous situation. Granted, the card is good enough to be useful at any time and against pretty much any meta deck, but it carries particular impetus when the user is already gearing up to win. It is this that makes it banworthy, although in a different way to many banworthy cards (like Cat or Brio) which hold power because they start combos or OTKs or play a key role in them. This card helps to confirm defeat and removes the fun from the game. Someone said that E-Dragon players gg as soon as you summon this, some of the time - what does that tell you?

[Mr. guy]

That although E dragon decks are horrendously broken otherwise, they have some specific counters that are particularly strong?

[Sora1499]

That although E dragon decks are horrendously broken otherwise, they have some specific counters that are particularly strong?

What are you trying to say?

[Mr. guy]

I'm answering tails' question

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Saying X card is broken but Y card (that is also broken) is a good counter for X card is bad. Same logic for Decks.

 

Shock Master is Broken.

E-Dragons are Broken.

 

Konami is just being Konami.

[Mehmani]

Why is it Rank 4? Just why? Time and time again you get bad design like this.