Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Being able to be destroyed because of backrow easily is still a fault in one's argument. The cost is pretty much negligent, considering the turn you drop this, you'll probably end up winning anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 It seems that no matter what, I cannot convince you that Burial is less unbalanced than Monster Reborn. So be it. My view on this will stand, but I will not bother you in regards to this anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 [quote name="Zazubat" post="6241292" timestamp="1374242864"]In no way do I find Burial balanced, but it is more balanced than Monster Reborn will ever be. It got a litle bit of a cost, while it doesn't matter that much, if you're 800 and below, you cannot topdeck this card. It requires the target to stay in the Graveyard. It's an equip, meaning if the monter leaves, it goes away to (so no trying to Synchro with the card you just revived). It can be destroyed pretty easily, making your monster you just revived die, and as said before, if the monster leaves, so does this card. It does have that Spell that adds it from the Graveyard again, which is still something I dislike, but that messes up your Normal Summon, so unless your deck can run without it, and make that Synchro without it, it's not as easy to abuse. Monster Reborn and Burial should both be and stay banned for many reasons, and so should any other card that can be abused. Some are worse than others, some can be abused more than others, some are just plain bad design.[/quote] You are soooooo lucky that Chris isn't here lol Anyways, I'll address your points one by one because Koko isn't patient enough to do so. 1. An 800 cost is insignificant and you know it. If you are at such low life, then you should play better in the future. Furthermore, the point at which this card is most degenerate is early on once you have your set-up, at which point you will have more than 800 life 99% of the time. 2. It requires the target to stay in the grave? What? I don't even understand this one... 3. Wtf of course you can synchro with the monster you just revived! There's also a very lovely and balanced synchro that abuses this card. 4. I thought it was established that counterability was a bad argument. 5. You don't care about your NS as much when you can NS from the graveyard. Not to mention that Burial is also searchable by that iron blacksmith kotetsu card and potentially by Power Tool Dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althemia Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 In no way do I find Burial balanced, but it is more balanced than Monster Reborn will ever be.Pros on Monster Reborn:- Brings back any Monster for free- Can easily become a one card topdeck winCons:- No way to Recycle Monster Reborn__________Pros on Premature Burial:- Brings back any monster for a small cost- Is recycable (Very important)Cons:- Life Point cost (Solemn Warning argument makes this null and void, however.)- Susceptible to backrow hate ("x cards counters y" arguments are not appropriate as those are situations which will rarely occur.)So basically Monster Reborn has 2 pros and 1 con to Premature's 2 Pros and 2 Pseudo-Cons. It got a litle bit of a cost, while it doesn't matter that much, if you're 800 and below, you cannot topdeck this card."If I topdeck Solemn Warning with 2000 or less Life Points, you cannot use this card. That makes this a worse card than [x card that negates Special Summons]" is what I managed to get from this comment. It requires the target to stay in the Graveyard.So does Monster Reborn. Null and void point. It's an equip, meaning if the monster leaves, it goes away to (so no trying to Synchro with the card you just revived).Or you could just... You know... Return Premature Burial to your hand with stuff like Hidden Armory so that you can continue to do dumb stuff..? It can be destroyed pretty easily, making your monster you just revived die, and as said before, if the monster leaves, so does this card."X cards counter y" are null and void unless the amount of counters that it has are huge and everything plays them. Irrelevant point. It does have that Spell that adds it from the Graveyard again, which is still something I dislike, but that messes up your Normal Summon, so unless your deck can run without it, and make that Synchro without it, it's not as easy to abuse.Still a hell of a lot easier than Monster Reborn to abuse. To the point where you can easily OTK. Monster Reborn and Burial should both be and stay banned for many reasons, and so should any other card that can be abused. Some are worse than others, some can be abused more than others, some are just plain bad design.No shit, Sherlock. So, you're avoiding my points without even consider reading them and calling them incorrect? That is just stupid. If you're not even gonna consider reading my points, then don't bother replying to me.But you never learn. No matter what people attempt to put forward to you, you're always stagnant on believing that you're correct. This makes arguing with you pointless, because you never learn anything anyway.For example:It seems that no matter what, I cannot convince you that Burial is less unbalanced than Monster Reborn. So be it. My view on this will stand, but I will not bother you in regards to this anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hounds Of Anubis Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Not gonna read the thread.Reborn is fine.Prema is busted.That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
玄魔の王 Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I remember when this first got banned. Its main reason for being hit before Burial was access to your opponent's monsters. That was back when decks were stacks of 40 generic cards. Now that argument doesn't hold up, and it says something that the top two decks don't even care about Reborn. Premature Burial and this card are both banworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 If you Synchro Summon to get the return cards, your Equip will be lost. If the target is banished in the Graveyard, Monster Reborn will still be able to get it, Burial will not. Alright, a lot of point here you are right about, being able to counter it directly doesn't make for a good argument, even if most decks at least play 1 or two MST, or have other ways of getting rid of backrow. Normal Summon not being able to be used I can see not mattering if you are gonna win anyway, but why would you not just play your wincard instead? But fine, so be it, if so many of you think so, I must be wrong. You win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althemia Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 If the target is banished in the Graveyard, Monster Reborn will still be able to get itThis is incorrect. Monster Reborn wants you to Special Summon the monster from the Graveyard, thus being unable to do so means that you can no longer special summon the monster. The PSCT made a few problems with Monster Reborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hounds Of Anubis Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I remember when this first got banned. Its main reason for being hit before Burial was access to your opponent's monsters. That was back when decks were stacks of 40 generic cards. Now that argument doesn't hold up, and it says something that the top two decks don't even care about Reborn.Premature Burial and this card are both banworthy.Just going to point out that while Yugioh was just generic cards, Reborn wasn't banned.It was banned during periods after 2003, frankly, when the best decks all had a ton of synergy, even if they aren't immediately apparent. Yugioh's been all about synergy since Mechanicalchaser stopped being the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 This is incorrect. Monster Reborn wants you to Special Summon the monster from the Graveyard, thus being unable to do so means that you can no longer special summon the monster. The PSCT made a few problems with Monster Reborn.Oh, I was sure that was correct. Alright, I take back that claim back then, I was sure it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
玄魔の王 Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 We mean different things by generic. I'm talking about old-time toolbox decks from before there were any good archetypes, ones that consisted of cards like D.D. Warrior Lady and Kycoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflame Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Premature looks more fair on paper but then you realize about its searchability and (mainly) bouncing shenanigans. Monster Reborn should be banned in an ideal format, but I agree that there are more urgent matters to take care right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 The thing in this thread that shocked me the most is that Chris commented and didn't swear... Not even arguing. At all. Despite one of the worse displays of logic I have ever seen. It rivals Superdoopertroopers banlist arguments. OT: It should be banned IMO. Partially because it's the only 3 of the major spells that doesn't have a healthy purpose for being in the game. And partially because it gives a momentum swing off of nowhere with next to no effect/skill involved. And no, you cannot argue that it's your fault for your monsters ending up in the grave to be stolen. Because that implies you don't play anything with out an answer to every possible situation in the game available to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Zubat, we get what your saying, but heres the issue~Yes, a cost and the monster being tied to said Revival card can be a means to balance it, BUT the fact said revival card can be bounced/recycled/etc, just means that those "cons" end up being more of a "plus", due to the fact they end up being more of an abusable factor, rather then something that would consider being balanced.Call of the Haunted is the card your looking for, in terms of generic "balanced" revival. Not Premature.Anyway, as far as Reborn goes...More or less, it's just a card that people can use to recover from getting blown to smithereens(IE, topdeck this) OR just as winmoar, since if your field is already full of death-dealings monsters, why not add more to it? Better yet, just take that boss from the Opponent's Graveyard that you Dark Hole'd earlier. But other then wonky scenarios like that, Reborn, in the current meta's state, is hardly that busted.It's like arguing with 3D, my god. You know what? Continue thinking that. I genuinely don't have the mental capacity to read more incorrect pointsKoko, don't worry about Zubat. Just use your Reverse powers to Lock him until his End Phase- *shot* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Alda Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 It's a shame that Monster Reincarnation doesn't actually summon. At least it can dredge Nomis and Semi-Nomis back up...if you're willing to discard. But it is an alternative. As for Monster Reborn itself, it's either a last-minute safety net or a winmoar (there isn't much in between) so I'm on the fence about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Zubat, we get what your saying, but heres the issue~ Yes, a cost and the monster being tied to said Revival card can be a means to balance it, BUT the fact said revival card can be bounced/recycled/etc, just means that those "cons" end up being more of a "plus", due to the fact they end up being more of an abusable factor, rather then something that would consider being balanced. Call of the Haunted is the card your looking for, in terms of generic "balanced" revival. Not Premature. Anyway, as far as Reborn goes... More or less, it's just a card that people can use to recover from getting blown to smithereens(IE, topdeck this) OR just as winmoar, since if your field is already full of death-dealings monsters, why not add more to it? Better yet, just take that boss from the Opponent's Graveyard that you Dark Hole'd earlier. But other then wonky scenarios like that, Reborn, in the current meta's state, is hardly that busted. Koko, don't worry about Zubat. Just use your Reverse powers to Lock him until his End Phase- *shot* I'm done with arguing as I stated, just leave this be okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I'm done with arguing as I stated, just leave this be okay? No Zazuscrubscrub, we guarantee that you will never live this down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 No Zazuscrubscrub, we guarantee that you will never live this down. If you don't stop calling me Zazuscrub, I will find your house and strangle your bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 If you don't stop calling me Zazuscrub, I will find your house and strangle your bird. Go rot in a hole, dick. There, I'll call you that from now on, better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazubat Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Go rot in a hole, dick. There, I'll call you that from now on, better? Eh, it's just a nickname for Richard, so I'm fine with that. Even if my name is not Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Eh, it's just a nickname for Richard, so I'm fine with that. Even if my name is not Richard. Go choke on a big fat cock, you cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Crouton Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Other than the two people going back and forth like little kids, is there any point of discussion anymore? It's still around to give players an out to a winning opponent, just like BLS. That's the big reason a card that can grab a monster from ANY graveyard without a cost is not banned. Yes, it's bad design, but Konami wants whatever card that helps a bad player come back against a good player to be at least @1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNo.101 S.H. Death Knight Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 like everyone said: reborn is better than Burial in term of balance given the pros of Burial render the cons null and void. Who care if it get destroy by opponent's mst and the like, if you can recycle it is your opponent's waste of effort. Reborn is better in term of complete lack of ways to recycle it, so it wouldn't be even easy to abuse it unless you REALLY want to -2 yourself to bring it back with Excavation. Sure this card is nuts but if konami want to bring back burial and banned this, they will have to banned a lot of cards that can search and recycle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted July 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Wow, this topic got really bad, really fast.With Monster Reborn, you typically run a 39 card deck, plus Monster Reborn.To really take full advantage of Premature Burial, you need to dedicate a bit of room. Then again, the "dedication" is just 3 other cards, and it would actually end up being more consistent that way.Too many cards exist that pitch things to the grave, so grave revival and grave effects and all that should really cut that shit out.in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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