More parents are opting their kids out of standardized tests.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

http://www.kasa.com/news/national/more-parents-opting-kids-out-of-standardized-tests_81724067

I find it sad when schools care more about test scores thn the substance of what children learn. Children should't have their futures determined by standardized tests since some children may not do well with that kind of evaluation but better than others like projects and the like. So YCM, let's debate the implications of this and the merits of standardized tests.

[Catman25]

Standardized tests are necessary to gauge the progress of a child's education, and ultimately, the school's success in teaching. It should not determine whether a student gets into college, but they are important sources for determining what should be changed in the education system.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

Standardized tests are necessary to gauge the progress of a child's education, and ultimately, the school's success in teaching. It should not determine whether a student gets into college, but they are important sources for determining what should be changed in the education system.

Though you have to take into account those students who aren't good at taking tests though are learning the information just as well if not better than those who are good at taking tests. Standardized tests aren't one-size fits all like they are made out to be. Those kind of students should be evaluated through methods that fully demonstate the knowledge they have obtained if tests just don't cut it for them.

[Catman25]

That's a good point, but until we find a method and the funding for better evaluation, standardized testing will have to suffice. Large scale testing sort of smooths out the outliers, i.e. bad test-takers, and people having bad days. There are also those who get lucky and have good days when they don't exactly know the material. So in the end, the statistics may not be entirely representative of the population, but they still do the job.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

The reason it's called "standardized testing" is because it's, well, standardized. Of course there will be people who are bad test-takers, but are still really smart, or vice-versa. But, it's very difficult to set up a test that would be able to be used everywhere, that would be able to show a persons true ability.

Basically I'm saying that, the tests may not be perfect, but they are the best thing we have to understand the intelligence level of the majority of students.

Pesonally, I think that it's the schools that need to work on how they prepare kids for the tests. So many just shove a bunch of info into them, right before the tests, and never speak of it again, promoting short term memory usage and "cramming" sessions. Which is NOT how kids should be learning.

[Tentacruel]

The problem is, standardized tests are creating a metagame of sorts.  Schools are teaching kids how to take tests instead of core math and language.

 

Also, the reading comprehension sections in standardized tests are atrocious.  

In general, I don't like standardized testing at all, and this is coming from someone who did score well enough to do what I wanted. 

[TheComposer]

Standardized tests are such a great idea on paper. A simple way to test a student's knowledge of a subject, while showing how good a school is doing overall to teach their students. But this is just on paper.

 

The biggest downside caused be these tests is this: schools no longer teach students information so the students learn. That is no longer the point. The point is now to cram as much into students as possible as quick as possible so students will do good on these tests. School is no longer a place dedicated to learning. It is now a place dedicated to passing standardized tests. Because of this I believe these tests are a colossal failure, and only server to diminish the main role of school, which is to prepare its students for the future, not some stupid test.

 

PS: I've aced two of these standardized tests before, so it's not like I hate these tests because I'm bad at them. I just feel like I could have gotten so much more out of high school if these tests didn't exist.

[Enrise]

I can sort of relate this to my college experience as an entering freshman.

 

When I was in high school, I took a lot of higher classes. I knew the subjects very well, it's just that I wasn't a good student, cramming my homework last minute with a friend's, etc. It wasn't really frequent until Senior year kicked in. Then high school seemed like nothing but preparation for tests. Hell, my AP classes were just the same way, but the tests were just structured differently. Standardized in a sense, yes. Still the same to me in the end. That's why I hated high school (and late middle school), it all prepared you for tests. And when you're done with that test, it doesn't even matter what grade you even get, cause you just forget it for the next subject, even in my AP classes. Then comes the final exams/AP exams, where everything you learn comes crashing in at once. Teachers start bombarding you with practice tests based off the final so you can get a good score (and so they look good).

 

Now when I entered college, when I'm being taught something, I actually feel like I'm being taught something, and not just blindly taking notes like in high school. I already took two tests, and I'm actually feeling confident about the two of them. Tests in high school made me feel uncomfortable because of the standard off the mill teaching method each teacher had, and I would forget about it for the next subject.

 

As much as I hate standardized tests, I think it's only good in a short-term procedure, and shouldn't be made a habit of. I feel as though they can create alternatives to those who aren't within the margins tests aim for.

 

I hope I worded everything like I wanted to. I just hope they do something about the standardized tests. They really didn't help me in the end.

[fabfabulous]

 I feel as though they can create alternatives to those who aren't within the margins tests aim for.

 

not jabbin' at you or anything, but do you (or anyone) have any ideas as to what those alternatives might be?

 

I understand why people have some hate for the standardized tests, but it really is the cheapest and quickest way to gauge student success as a whole. any other "alternative method" would presumably cost more money and require a shakeup of the educational system, which is pretty much set in stone. students need to be judged on a level playing field for college admissions and other things, and these tests provide a sloppy answer. but while I'm disappointed that highschool is becoming increasingly like a bridge between childhood and college, the tests don't determine your future. I hate when people act like one test decides their fate.

 

as for people being "bad test-takers", I know that my fam told the moderators that my brother had bad adhd and they gave him a ton of extra time. sometimes all you have to do is ask. ;)

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Being an ESE student when I was in school. I can tell you that they weren't helpful to my education. If anything, it only further allowed me to understand just how big of a gap in education I had in comparison to my "standard" peers. So no, for gifted people like myself, these standardized tests are fruitless waists of time.

[Enrise]

Not jabbin' at you or anything, but do you (or anyone) have any ideas as to what those alternatives might be?

 

Don't worry, it's good to have a little jab once in a while. I haven't really given it any exceptional thought, I just feel that they could have alternative methods for testing instead of the standard "sit at your desk, you have an hour to complete the test" type of tests. Like, perhaps they could do a more oral-orientated test? Again, I have to restate that I haven't given any alternatives to standardized testing exceptionally until now, but I always felt that they could do something about it.

[:^)]

/topic

[Tentacruel]

Here's an alternative.  All grade school being taught in the same format as college.  You need to know this, we teach you this.  Done. 

[Enrise]

We could also impliment an option for students at a certain grade (say, freshman in high school) who know what they want to become (like a biochemist for example), and take classes based on the profession they are going after.

[Tentacruel]

Oh, and get rid of grades.   Have levels of progression for each subject but not universal grades.

 

Again, like College.  

 

 

 

And while they're at it, 4 days of school a week, and change Summer vacation to Winter vacation.  It'd make more sense.

 

Although I guess that has nothing to do with education. 

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

Indonesia has a mandatory standardized test every year, and it's split into three bits. There's the national test that the government made, the school test and the practice test. Every grade 6, grade 9, and grade 12 student must take them and the grades from the national test make up 40% of your end report card. It makes every student very good at memory and the whatever subject are being tested, but only in theory. It makes us a bit bad when it comes to putting them in practice though.


Standardized tests are not good for education, but they open up a lot of job opportunities here. I know a lot of college students giving private lessons to kids who are having the tests.


It's BS, really. I mean, some schools will only accept students who get at least 90% in these tests. The subjects being tested are Indonesian, English, Maths and Science, but the government are planning to add Social Studies in the mix.


Our educational system is fucked up.

[Maeriberii Haan]

I do think that what's really bad in Indonesian model of standarized tests is the fact that parents of the children are willingly paying millions to tutors just to ensure their kids to have a good grade in these standarized tests. It's not a problem if the children actually learned something there, but all they learned there is just how to solve the previous year's tests, how to answer those tests, how to face it, etc. They memorized the lesson, they made several books of notes, but they doesn't really learn about what's actually being taught. Most of the students who passed those standarized tests and went to college immediately got overwhelmed there, mainly since they're built to answer those tests, not to actually use their brain for thinking. 

 

And they cannot even avoid it, since grade means everything here. Bad grades will lock your chance from entering good schools and colleges, and parents usually used them for bragging.

 

S***ty is not even enough to describe it.

[Kodamλ]

Personally the reason I believe that standardized tests are not a good idea is that it is really just testing memory and the ability to take a test. Later on, you will have these resources, you will not have to rely on just memory alone. This means that many people just decide to focus on tests rather than learning what is actually needed. Another thing that annoys me is that this is not being resolved at all- in Britain, Michael Fucking Gove is taking us back to the fucking dark ages regarding testing in school.

Currently, I am a Year 10 student and have just started my GCSE courses and one of our teachers actually told us that he didn't want to teach our class (Maths) because the teacher evaluations are based upon what grades the students get at the end of GCSE compared to what they should be getting- our class has 20/25 A* predicted; so actually many teachers actually don't like this system as well. Finally- the pressure is always fucking huge for giant examinations- how am I going to cope for the next 2 years with the fact that I am expected 11 A*s at GCSE. The system is sometimes just fucking stupid.

[fabfabulous]

Here's an alternative.  All grade school being taught in the same format as college.  You need to know this, we teach you this.  Done. 

 

"fuck snacktime timmy, you need to be on time for your fractions midterm"

[Rapidfire]

We could also impliment an option for students at a certain grade (say, freshman in high school) who know what they want to become (like a biochemist for example), and take classes based on the profession they are going after.

 

Yeah, it's called a charter/magnet school. Exactly the type of school I got to. It's petty cool but we still have to take 4 years of math, 4 of science, 3 of history, 4 of literature, 1 economics, 1 P.E, and 1 health. But I also get to take classes like acting, and band, and such. It's mainly like I get to explore a bunch of different things and this helps me decide on what I want to do later on in life.