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Number 104: Masquerade

Blake

By Blake
in Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG/OCG Card Discussion

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Sora1499 Newbie

Sora1499

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Hits Bujins, hits Ghostrick, hits Blackwings, hits things like trick Archfiend and card trooper, hits Xyz walls like gachi and maestroke, all on a solid 2700 semi-generic body. And, if you run RUM, which some decks do, you can rank him up to C104, which is a damn good card. I'd say he's pretty good this format.

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Toffee. Newbie

Toffee.

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Just out of curiosity, since this doesn't technically destroy the card it negates; Couldn't Gorz just trigger again, off that 800 damage?
Or is the "and if you do" at the same time?

Either way, the only real reason why they removed 'Shining' from it's name is because "Shining" isn't a true Archetype.
That, and the fact it messes with Battle Phase shenanigans is pretty cool.

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Blake Newbie

Blake

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Just out of curiosity, since this doesn't technically destroy the card it negates; Couldn't Gorz just trigger again, off that 800 damage?
Or is the "and if you do" at the same time?

Either way, the only real reason why they removed 'Shining' from it's name is because "Shining" isn't a true Archetype.
That, and the fact it messes with Battle Phase shenanigans is pretty cool.

Despite DevPro's bad programming, no. From what I was told, Gorz is negated at the time of burn, so he cannot respond.

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evilfusion Newbie

evilfusion

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Very solid card. 2700 ATK is actually pretty good, and the effect can mess up a whole plethora of plays. It's one of the ace monsters of my Heraldic Beast Deck, particularly because it can fight Galaxy-Eyes, especially a Galaxy-Eyes in DEF position due to Galaxy Expedition or similar.

 

Pretty high on the list of my favorite Rank 4s. I didn't like it much at first, but it's way better than given credit for, especially since Shock Master's gone.

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Not-so-Radiant Arin Newbie

Not-so-Radiant Arin

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It's pretty solid and, if I was given the opportunity to run him, I would run him without a doubt. But unfortunately, not many of my Decks (meaning the one I competitively play) can consistently put three Level 4s out on the field at once to make this. That doesn't dissuade its use, however; it's a major threat to aggressive Decks that act during the Battle Phase.

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Blake Newbie

Blake

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Wait why not?

Can't he just respond to the burn again? Since it's a brand new trigger?

>Gorz

>Negate, 800 burn

>Gorz is triggered again

>etc

No because it's negated at the time the burn takes place. The burn and negation are simultaneous, so it's unable to activate in response as it's currently out of work when it happens.

 

Or so I was told.

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Miror B Newbie

Miror B

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Gorz can't respond because this has to activate as Chain Link 2, meaning that resolving Gorz as Link 1 (Though unsuccessful) will keep Gorz from triggering to the burn.

Masquerade negates the activation, meaning CL1 would cease to exist.

 

No because it's negated at the time the burn takes place. The burn and negation are simultaneous, so it's unable to activate in response as it's currently out of work when it happens.

 

Or so I was told.

That just sounds really wrong, because this only negates the effect when it activated, not negating the effect of Gorz like Veiler would. Once the chain resolves, Gorz should be able to check for triggers again.

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Miror B Newbie

Miror B

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Chains never "cease to exist". Even if an activation is negated, the chain link still has to resolve, despite it resolving without effect.

Again, Torrential vs Starlight Road's summon.

And I'm talking the new, negate the activation text. Not the old text.



T'was about the wording in Seven Tools, and how despite negating activation it did not make CL2 disappear like you said it does.

Except it does, and my example is proof of my claim.

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Dementuo Newbie

Dementuo

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Torrential being able to respond to the Summon of Stardust off of Starlight Road agrees with me.

I don't see anything in your link that disagrees.

Suppose "Heavy Storm" is activated while there are two or more Spell/Trap Cards on the field, and "Starlight Road" is Chained. After "Starlight Road" Special Summons "Stardust Dragon", the resolution of the negated "Heavy Storm" still occurs, so "Torrential Tribute" cannot be activated since you miss the timing.[13]

 

This ruling was taken straight from the wiki.

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Miror B Newbie

Miror B

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Suppose "Heavy Storm" is activated while there are two or more Spell/Trap Cards on the field, and "Starlight Road" is Chained. After "Starlight Road" Special Summons "Stardust Dragon", the resolution of the negated "Heavy Storm" still occurs, so "Torrential Tribute" cannot be activated since you miss the timing.[13]

 

This ruling was taken straight from the wiki.

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Geartown

 

If "Magic Jammer" is chained to "Geartown", "Magic Jammer" resolves first and negates and destroys "Geartown" as Chain Link 2. Chain Link 1 does not resolve since "Geartown"'s activation was negated. The last thing to resolve is "Magic Jammer", so you can activate the effect of "Geartown" and Special Summon an "Ancient Gear" monster.[1]

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Dementuo Newbie

Dementuo

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Then at this point it's a case on contradicting rulings and, for the time being at least, the decision will end up being left to whatever judge happens to be at whatever event the ruling appears in. It's left up to a matter of personal opinion...

 

I'll put the question to the judge forums.

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evilfusion Newbie

evilfusion

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In the Gorz example, I've wondered that myself.

 

But as far as I can tell, Gorz SHOULD be able to activate, because the last event to resolve was inflicting 800 damage (since activation was negated). However, Masquerade can simply detach again, negating the effect and inflicting 800 again. Then Gorz can activate AGAIN, but Masquerade will detach again and inflict 800 damage. The reason this happens is because these are new instances of damage occurring. Ultimately, Gorz will be Summoned and inflict 800 to you, but you dealt them 2400 damage plus the Battle Damage they took to Trigger Gorz in the first place.

 

This is still a better situation than Gorz going through and being Summoned with a Token. As such, Masquerade is still a nice anti-Gorz card on the basis that Summoning a 2700 beater and getting a mere 800 burn out of taking Battle Damage AND 3 instances of 800 burn is not as worthwhile as most players would like.

 

You could actually even time it so you don't take Gorz's reflection burn by not negating Gorz's SS effect from the hand when you're down to 1 Overlay Unit, but instead negating Gorz's effect from the Field.

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evilfusion Newbie

evilfusion

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I wouldn't think that Gorz would activate again due to it already been activated during the chain in the first place, but I guess I'm probably not correct anyway

 

That's the thing: It's not the same chain.

 

Battle Damage is inflicted.

Chain Link 1: Gorz

Chain Link 2: Masquerade.

 

Resolving

 

Chain Link 2: Masquerade negates activation. Opponent takes 800 damage.

Link 1: Activation was negated.

 

Last thing to resolve was 800 damage. Opponent has no cards and took Effect Damage. New chain begins.

Chain Link 1: Gorz

Chain Link 2: Masquerade.

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