Forbidden Lance

[newhat]

 

The combination of cheap removal Spells and Traps and the existence of only 1 reliable Counter Trap Card in play have made this card stupid. It's understandable that such a bunker-buster to Trap defense has to come with a penalty. If this were only able to affect your monsters, it would be perfectly reasonable. But since it can dap the enemy's monsters as well, there are few monster-based Decks that do not benefit from this card. Junk Synchron can kill Rai-Oh, Rai-Oh can break through/defend himself from Megalo/Mirror Force, Megalo can insure himself against Dark Hole...I mean, I wouldn't put Lance in Dragon Rulers, but they're basically immune to removal and have far stronger cards to play instead.

 

It's not overpowered. What makes it strong is just response to common trends. But if I'm maining three Lances, my opponent should be able to side something in to take advantage of that...Black Horn of Heaven? Heraldry Record? Anti-Magic Prism? Until we get cheap monster-based Spell Speed 2 monster removal that doesn't require a Summon, Lance doesn't really have drawbacks and is generally an annoyingly wide card.

 

Just venting.

 

P.S. Tools negates Return and Abyss-sphere.

[Dementuo]

This is a very big "Format card". That is, it's a card that is only as good as the format allows it to be, and is very dependent on that factor. Last format, when Dragons and Spellbooks were taking over and breezing through everything, Lance wasn't played nearly as much as it is now, since decks either had their own form of protection (Infestation Pandemic, Spellbook of Wisdom) or didn't need this deck. There wasn't nearly as many backrow-heavy decks due to the nature of the format, meaning Lance had less of a place in the metagame. In this format, there's quite a number of Backrow-heavy decks (Constellars, Fire Fists, Bujins, etc), giving Lance more of a purpose, and I feel it will be an even bigger card next format, since Dragons will most definitely receive another hit in December.

[Mehmani]

It's one of those cards that is rendered 'overpowered' by virtue of the format it is operating in. Remember when everyone mained Trap Stun?

[evilfusion]

It's a versatile card. It can be used for protection, for Battle Phase/Damage Step shenanigans, or countering some sort of push. It's not as versatile as Book of Moon, obviously, but the general idea is still the same.

[Sleepy]

I personally am not a fan of too much versatility in a card because I believe that deck-building should make you think of them more.

Like with Book of Moon, the game doesn't use it as much because it's kept tied down to the limited list, but it's an all-purpose control card with a dozen uses. Evidently something in it's design is wrong if it has to be kept at 1.

 

Lance is of course not as huge on that subject as Book is, but it's up there. When a format DOES use it, it really does.

[Blake]

I personally am not a fan of too much versatility in a card because I believe that deck-building should make you think of them more.
Like with Book of Moon, the game doesn't use it as much because it's kept tied down to the limited list, but it's an all-purpose control card with a dozen uses. Evidently something in it's design is wrong if it has to be kept at 1.

Lance is of course not as huge on that subject as Book is, but it's up there. When a format DOES use it, it really does.

Except no. Book is at 1 because it trended with players, not because it's badly designed. This has been stated multiple times.

And honestly, Lance is a worse card for the game than Book, because Lance is more likely to support to an OTK. It's not a bad card for the game, but it's worse than book.

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

If you aren't running at least 1 of these, you're dumb.

 

Also, lol, Book being a bad card for the game.

[Dementuo]

If you aren't running at least 1 of these, you're dumb.

 

Also, lol, Book being a bad card for the game.

All dragon players must be pretty dumb then.

[newhat]

Dragons have broke-er fish to fry.

 

Book at 3 makes Empty Jar much more consistent.

[Blake]

Dragons have broke-er fish to fry.

 

Book at 3 makes Empty Jar much more consistent.

Implying that Morphing Jar's not the problem with Empty Jar

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

All dragon players must be pretty dumb then.

Given how much they sack, sure, I'll go with that.
 
I feel like I should put something meaningful here, but this card is over discussed and such, so I'm just going to say that 2 is the Golden Number in any sort of Deck that relies on significant pushes. You can use 1 for the push or the 1 to defend yourself, or any other combination of the 2, and unlike Book, it's used in much different situations and poses a bigger threat. Sure, it can be annoying to deal with (mainly because one of the most "Overpowered" things about it is being a Quick-Play), but learning to deal with that, too, is a trademark of being good.

[Sleepy]

Except no. Book is at 1 because it trended with players, not because it's badly designed. This has been stated multiple times.

And honestly, Lance is a worse card for the game than Book, because Lance is more likely to support to an OTK. It's not a bad card for the game, but it's worse than book.

 

For the first line: I've been absent at those discussions so I'm interested on that bit. At this moment, I think that's arguable. Last time I saw a Book of Moon topic was at the Synchro era, and it was still a card that killed plays and even though it wasn't an advantage card by itself, it did cause a player to gain control and advantage when combined with the rest of the resourses a lot of the time. Also, players trended with Heavy sooooo much more, and it's interesting how it was banned when the trend had stopped.

 

I'm trying to come up with how to support an OTK. I guess there's a Lance'd monster crashing to a bigger one, clearing the path a bit more, or escaping a Torrential? In my humble opinion, Book's disruption is stronger than Lance's effects a decent amount of times.

 

 

 

Though, rather than adressing the "badly designed or not" aspect, which my previous post probably didn't have the best wording, I meant the sheer amount of uses that these types of cards have, or it's almost unlimited chainability. Compulsory joining the category. Not so much anything else but how I think each of these could easily have been 2 or 3 cards instead of "all uses in 1" for each effect. I have nothing against a card that can have more than one application, and in fact, that's a factor that makes in-game strategy possible, but these have a bit much.

[evilfusion]

I assumed Book was down to 1 because it was too flexible. Which is WHY it trended with players. Especially with priority gone, Book of Moon was an extremely flexible answer to almost any type of play, both offensive or defensive.

 

-It could flip a strong monster to its weaker DEF position.

-It could flip a monster before you can use it for Synchro/Xyz, leaving the other one vulnerable

-It could stop Ignition effects (loss of priority rule is key)

-Hide a targeted monster if the target has to be faceup, or if it's based on ATK/DEF/Level/Type/etc

-Stop attacks.

-Re-use Flip Effects/Ignition effects.

-Flip a weak ATK monster to its stronger DEF when attacked (bonus points if Flip Effect).

 

Etc.

 

Lance doesn't serve NEARLY the same level of versatility. It's mostly a card that does a lot for Battle Phase shenanigans, but still encourages a bit of thought. You can't just attack something and expect Lance to save you if your monster is only 700 ATK stronger and you run into Mirror Force or D-Prison or something. There's some hilarious plays you can do with it, and it's brilliant with cards that get an effect when they triumph in battle.

[newhat]

800 ATK is a lot, frequently more than you can gain by using a monster as Xyz Material.

 

My beefsnap with Lance is not versatility but the lack of viable responses or competitors.