My personal take on the next TCG banlist

[Toffee.]

which card? you better not say shock master. I already said I agree it should be banned together with herald of perfect and krystia.

Doesn't matter. I'm just saying that you can't resort to using a duel to reinforce your arguments, as that doesn't, and completely throws any points you made out the window.

It's like saying your going to lick an electrical outlet, and shoot anyone who tells you it's a dumb idea.
Sure, go ahead, shoot everyone. But your still an idiot for licking that outlet.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Zinconshine I'll ask you a rather simple question.

 

Since you feel so very confident with the deck you'v worked hard to build, would you mind giving use a deck list?

 

That out of the way, like others have mentioned competitive play is the very reason for a ban list and why the list tends to hit things that are both bad for the game in general and bad for the competitive state. Of course a down side to this is cards that are broken but are unlikely to be hit (Like Madolche Tiaramisu for instance) due to the lack of not really being competitive stay as they are.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

You don't know what I run TechGenus. And how can you say it compares with CED? does it send all your cards to the grave? no.

What CED? Did I mention CED?

 

Also, in response to this:

Which card? you better not say shock master. I already said I agree it should be banned together with herald of perfect and krystia.

 

How do you not see my point on Ophion, then?

 

[Zincoshine]

Zinconshine I'll ask you a rather simple question.

 

Since you feel so very confident with the deck you'v worked hard to build, would you mind giving use a deck list?

ok, but in a separate thread and after this thread dies down a little. I have a variant of the deck for TCG, TCG with OCG cards, OCG, and devpro tag matches. I would love criticism on it since the banlist is changing in a month, and since the side deck sucks and I need some input on how to make it good.

What CED? Did I mention CED?

 

Also, in response to this:

Which card? you better not say shock master. I already said I agree it should be banned together with herald of perfect and krystia.

 

How do you not see my point on Ophion, then?

ooooooh I see your point.

well, before i add ophion to my list, let me ask this, what would evilswarms be able to do without it?

[goddamnit names are a pain]

Well, before i add ophion to my list, let me ask this, what would evilswarms be able to do without it?

Anything but Ophion.

[Zincoshine]

That out of the way, like others have mentioned competitive play is the very reason for a ban list and why the list tends to hit things that are both bad for the game in general and bad for the competitive state. Of course a down side to this is cards that are broken but are unlikely to be hit (Like Madolche Tiaramisu for instance) due to the lack of not really being competitive stay as they are.

limiting messengelato might help a little..... don't you think?

[goddamnit names are a pain]

limiting messengelato might help a little..... don't you think?

But what does he actually do that breaks game state?

Nothing, nothing at all.

He gets shuffled, and can add when SS while you have another card. That's not anything compared to the meta.

[Zincoshine]

Anything but Ophion.

so.... the deck would revolve around using bahamut instead? I don't see evilswarms being good for anything at all without ophion and it would be a shame to kill an entire archetype. I will add it to limited on my list for now.

Edit: removing messengelato also.

[Miror B]

 sixth sense (from limited)

this was only unbanned to make money, they have enough now from this card I think

I'm just gonna point this out cuz I love pointing this out.

Sixth Sense has never been on the banlist in the TCG before now, just like Trishula was never banned in the TCG until its own release.

So them putting Sixth Sense to 1 was actually a hit rather than an un-hit, purely so we TCG players could have a chance to play it before it gets the ax.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

so.... the deck would revolve around using bahamut instead? I don't see evilswarms being good for anything at all without ophion and it would be a shame to kill an entire archetype. I will add it to limited on my list for now.

Options, Zinco, options.

They have so many other Xyz they can go for. It does slow down the adding oh Pandemic, but meh.

Like you like to keep mentioning, Shark Knight is a thing. Probably used over Ophion if the time came.

[Miror B]

so.... the deck would revolve around using bahamut instead? I don't see evilswarms being good for anything at all without ophion and it would be a shame to kill an entire archetype. I will add it to limited on my list for now.

It's not like Ophion's actually that good, it only seems that way because it's a direct counter to Dragon Rulers, the currently dominating deck.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

limiting messengelato might help a little..... don't you think?

No, Mess is not the problem. Yes he's a good searcher but limiting him for the sake of allowing Tiaramisu to be playable is not the right answer. As a Madolche player myself, I can honestly say the Tiaramisu needs to be hit more then anything else in the deck. (There are a few things that need to be hit but she has the highest priority)

[goddamnit names are a pain]

I'm just gonna point this out cuz I love pointing this out.

Sixth Sense has never been on the banlist in the TCG before now, just like Trishula was never banned in the TCG until its own release.

So them putting Sixth Sense to 1 was actually a hit rather than an un-hit, purely so we TCG players could have a chance to play it before it gets the ax.

Yeah, I was going to point that out too.

Am I the only one who thinks Sixth Sense should stick around?

 

On another post, I think Ophion is actually pretty dang great, based on what I have seen.

Searchs defense cards, great ATK, and prevents other Summons past Dragon Rulers. Do I even need to say Quasar?

[Zincoshine]

Edit- Join DN, fight my creative deck. And don't keep flaming here with all this shut up crap.

 

And shoot me for saying Sixth Sense shouldn't be banned. I won't go into details why. Limited works though.

And its hard to put opinions on cards that really don't need opinions.

Azure Eyes at 1 is kind of dumb.

Dragged is an equal swap.

Belzebuth is not TCG yet, and won't be by this list.

Honest is just fine, changes one battle.

Dark Armed is already at 1, and can blow up 3 when summoned. Is DARK specific, I see no real issues here.

Neo Spacian Grand Mole is just a troll. No real opinions on it.

I don't feel like commenting on the last ones.

-I can't run my deck on DN. it doesn't have the cards I need because the admins are bunch of lazy fucks. Come to devpro, that's where the pros are.

-explain how azure eyes at 1 is dumb. check out my OP for an explanation on why it should be at 1.
-Explain how dragged is an equal swap when the user gets to see the opponents hand and remove their most powerful card while the opponent is forced to discard some monster that gets a big bonus for being discarded. It's about as equal as delinquent duo, fuck that.

-Lets look towards the future, it will be in the TCG soon.
-OK, removing honest from the list.
-It can completely turn around a game, but eh so can BLS and I would be a hypocrite for saying DAD needs to go while BLS can stay. OK removing it from my list.
-grand mole can do things no other monster card can do. such as getting rid of the castrator by attack, breaking the master key beetle lock, dealing with felgrand, dealing with obelisk, etc.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

-I can't run my deck on DN. it doesn't have the cards I need because the admins are bunch of lazy fucks. Come to devpro, that's where the pros are.

-explain how azure eyes at 1 is dumb. check out my OP for an explanation on why it should be at 1.
-Explain how dragged is an equal swap when the user gets to see the opponents hand and remove their most powerful card while the opponent is forced to discard some monster that gets a big bonus for being discarded. It's about as equal as delinquent duo, fuck that.

-Lets look towards the future, it will be in the TCG soon.
-OK, removing honest from the list.
-It can completely turn around a game, but eh so can BLS and I would be a hypocrite for saying DAD needs to go while BLS can stay. OK removing it from my list.
-grand mole can do things no other monster card can do. such as getting rid of the castrator by attack, breaking the master key beetle lock, dealing with felgrand, etc.

Why can't you? I don't get it. (Join DN)

 

Here is what you said.

 

Azure eyes silver dragon (from unlimited)
This completely stops an opponent from doing anything to your monsters on their coming turn. It's special summon effect then gives you a huge advantage that cannot be stopped or which can be used on your next turn to summon another azure eyes silver dragon and protect your old azure eyes along with all your other monsters for yet another turn. Limiting it to 1 will at least stop it from being abused like this.

 

Here is what I say.

I absolutely despise this card, but it is not limit worthy. It stopped my Meklord Plays, got revived, stalled again. A pain, I know. Summons Blue Eyes, which is just a beater, or material for another one. Thats about it. It can be destroyed in battle, is specific to Dragons, and summons a normal monster. Nothing terrible here.

And on Grand Mole; doesn't this just prove its kinda trolly and should stay at one? Also, can bounce the only monster your opponent has, which could be a beater. I mean, the thing can beat Quasar if played right and that means it should be able to be played 2x? Not a terrible card, just a bad idea at 2.

 

I think Limiter Removal takes some skill. You still have to ATK successfully with all of them. And if not? Your field is pretty much wiped. Dracossack, I know.....

[Miror B]

-I can't run my deck on DN. it doesn't have the cards I need because the admins are bunch of lazy fucks.

If it's because they haven't been released irl yet, it's because they don't want another Lightpulsar scenario. Don't go calling people lazy fucks when you don't even watch them work.

[Zincoshine]

Why can't you? I don't get it. (Join DN)

 

Here is what you said.

 

Azure eyes silver dragon (from unlimited)
This completely stops an opponent from doing anything to your monsters on their coming turn. It's special summon effect then gives you a huge advantage that cannot be stopped or which can be used on your next turn to summon another azure eyes silver dragon and protect your old azure eyes along with all your other monsters for yet another turn. Limiting it to 1 will at least stop it from being abused like this.

 

Here is what I say.

I absolutely despise this card, but it is not limit worthy. It stopped my Meklord Plays, got revived, stalled again. A pain, I know. Summons Blue Eyes, which is just a beater, or material for another one. Thats about it. It can be destroyed in battle, is specific to Dragons, and summons a normal monster. Nothing terrible here.

And on Grand Mole; doesn't this just prove its kinda trolly and should stay at one? Also, can bounce the only monster your opponent has, which could be a beater. I mean, the thing can beat Quasar if played right and that means it should be able to be played 2x? Not a terrible card, just a bad idea at 2.

 

I think Limiter Removal takes some skill. You still have to ATK successfully with all of them. And if not? Your field is pretty much wiped. Dracossack, I know.....

I need raiden, trouble diver, noblswarm belzebuth, and ark knight. At the very least I need raiden.

Azure can be destroyed by battle? OK. definitely removing it from the list.

yeah, flipping a quick play spell card takes skill.... There are no monsters that depend on it,  machine monsters, especially machina fortress, can do just fine without it. all limiter removal does is turn an ordinary wave of attacks into an OTK. as it is limited that means it is entirely luck based on that 1 in 40 and decreasing chance that you draw it.
 

oh i forgot to ask, do you guys think Shi En is weak enough now to be given a chance at being semi limited? ark knight can just eat him up and belzebuth will wipe out the six sam swarm.

[Zincoshine]

 Lightpulsar scenario.

Whats that? pretty sure belzebuth and ark knight have been released IRL in japan as part of the legacy of the valiant.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

I need raiden, trouble diver, noblswarm belzebuth, and ark knight. At the very least I need raiden.

 

Isn't that all out already on DN? It just takes slightly longer.

 

On Limiter, you said:

 

Yeah, flipping a quick play spell card takes skill.... There are no monsters that depend on it,  machine monsters, especially machina fortress, can do just fine without it. all limiter removal does is turn an ordinary wave of attacks into an OTK. as it is limited that means it is entirely luck based on that 1 in 40 and decreasing chance that you draw it.

 

I says:

I think Meklords occasionally have reliance on it. Also, like I said, you still have to ATK. Its helpful for turning your damage to double, but if you fail, you lose your best monsters. One seems reasonable for now, unless another broken Machine comes out, which really shouldn't influence the card itself. 

Its a 1 in 40 that makes OTKs. Lets Ban Dark Hole using that logic.

[Zincoshine]

are you implying that a 8000 ATK lucksack with meklord emperor granel takes skill? Seriously WTF. i used to have a demo of that but its broken.

 

 

 Lets Ban Dark Hole using that logic.

 

 

There are too many cards in the game now that take advantage of destruction, especially mass destruction. Dark hole just isn't as powerful as it used to be.

Now if it were "dark compulsory evacuation" or something like that, then it would be ridiculously powerful and broken and in need of banning.

incidentally we have such a card, and it's unlimited, it's called morphing jar #2 and we agreed it needs to be banned.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

are you implying that a 8000 ATK lucksack with meklord emperor granel takes skill? Seriously WTF.

Not really skill, but not broken. Keeping 8000 LP and getting Granel are two challenges in their own. Ok, Gear Gigant X, whatever.

But having 8000 LP and getting him out, and getting Limiter Removal, and attacking, takes time and "luck/skill".

 

Dark Hole Turn two, this guy, Limiter=OTK, yes.

But thats one combo, and isn't a likely one to happen.

Thats like saying Quasar should be banned because its an OTK if it attacks directly.

 

I'll be addressing Stardust Assault, Kaizer, the Jars, and Soul Absorption in more detail next.

[Zincoshine]

i don't know, my opponent did it on turn three.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

i don't know, my opponent did it on turn three.

I have something to propose to you.

DN, since the cards you want are on there. DN is the only one I can use, since crap laptop.

I have a Machine deck, heck I have 2, sort of. Limiter almost never ends up in my hand, my point being it is luck. Luck =/= broken.

[Delibirb]

This list is fairly ridiculous in a large number of ways.

[spoiler='Rebuttals']

• Limited Dark Armed is fine
• Honest, while annoying, is a completely fair card at 1.
• Limiter Removal, same logic as honest. No problems at 1.
• Necroface? Really? With her, Fissure, and Macro at 1, if you are losing to a Necroface enough to think she warrants a ban you need to edit your side deck.
• Sixth Sense is one of the few cards one this list that MAY actually get hit. Not saying I would like it, not saying it will or should, but it is probably the most likely.
• IF Big Eye were to ever get hit, it wouldnt be banned, and probably not even limited. There is simply nothing wrong inherently with this card.
• Morphing Jar 2? Who do you play with to get these random ideas?
• Morphing Jar is a massive help to your opponent 7 times out of 10 in addition to yourself. 1 is fine to prevent deck-out from overwhelming the meta.
• If you want Krystia banned you might as well ban every card that prevents SS. Seriously, there are much easier SS stoppers in the game than this guy.
• Perfection is a rough card, ill give you that. Bannage is probably too much, as Herald decks are not at all tier because there are a ridiculous number of ways to stop it.
• Soul Absorption? Really? Same response as Necroface.
• Of all the things on this list, Messengelato is probably the choice I understand the least. "WAREUR SUPORT" is not a good reason. Its effect isnt even terribly impressive, but certainly something Madolches deserve.
• Noblswarm is generic, yes. He nukes, yes. Too easy? Not necessarily. Plenty other Nuke monsters who are much easier to get and are unlimited.
• Kaiser Colosseum? If you cant handle working with only 1 monster until you draw an MST, then your deck is a pushover. Period.
• Because Assault Mode Stardust is more powerful than Assault Mode anything else. Oh, and lets not forget that Assault Mode decks are topping this format /sarcasm.
• Main reason Judgement is unfair is late game, half your life points is not necessarily a lot. Warning has a flat 2000, so when you have 1200 LP left you dont want to use that. But if you Judgement, losing a mere 600 Life Points? IDTS.
• You literally say Deck Devastation card can win games, and that is why it SHOULDNT be banned? And Herald of Creation SHOULD be?
• Dragged Down is an annoyance, but its a minor hoop compared to, you know, a decent DW deck.
• Rabbit Xyzs into any generic Rank 4 you want for absolutely no cost. For this reason, Rabbit decks arent creative, and creativity is your reasoning for hitting a number of the above cards.
• RotA, maybe 2. Maybe. Not saying I wouldnt be surprised, not saying it is smart, but maybe.
• Except then decent Six Sam players can get 2-3 on the field turn 4-5, easy, if not sooner.
• Grand Mole was hit because it wasnt being used in just Neo Spacian decks. He wasnt being used to stop attacks, he was being used to say no to any and every monster.
• Konami has been going at Staples' throats for a while now, its no secret. IMHO, it is to increase creativity. BoM is not creative, using interesting combos what may work only with your deck is creative.
• Fissure: No. This requires no explanation, and your believing it should be anything less than limited is broken logic. "Necroface is the problem" is not only false, it is a bad reason to remove the hammer on these two.
• Macro: No.

[/spoiler]

[Zincoshine]

you don't increase creativity when you limit cards like rescue rabbit and d fissure. TCG Konami doesn't know what it's doing (the changes to the solemns being the most obvious indicator of this) and the OCG has far more creativity than the TCG now despite dumb cards like gateway, card destruction, trish, and others being legal.

to reply to your rebuttals:
- i removed dark armed from my list
- I removed honest also
- limiter removal: I disagree because I believe yu-Gi-Oh should be skill based not luck based
- the point of banning necroface is to get d fissure and/or macros back to unlimited or semi limited
- Yeah, nothing wrong with a 2600 ATK snatch steal that can be searched easily by the summoning of elemental dragons..... great logic.
- cyber jar destroys rather than bounces, hence cyber jar is weaker. it makes no sense whatsoever that a stronger monster than cyber jar would be unlimited. Either they are both limited or both banned. I'm going with banned for reasons mentioned by Armadilloz on page 2.
- morphing jar: oh yeah? hand it to your opponent and then ram it with all kinds of effects to get it flipping and you can do a OTK easily and consistently. Either magical excavation stone needs to be banned or this. I'm going with this for reasons mentioned by Armadilloz on page 2.
- krystia can work with herald, can be special summoned by its own effect or can be special summoned with valhalla. Vanity's fiend on the other hand can only be tribute summoned, also vanity's emptiness is very easy to get rid of by its own effect.
- I removed messengelato from the list.
- noblswarm is by far the easiest nuke to bring out. just give me some examples of other nukes to bring out.
- kaiser colloseum: you should play against bujins sometime.
- stardust assault mode: Tell me how you can defeat two that are on the field.
- royal decree is really popular these days with heavy storm gone. that judgment isn't going to be doing anything other than perhaps negating a decree for a very high cost.
- better to have deck devastation limited rather than unlimited as it is now. I'm all for banning it once and for all if eradicator epidemic virus joins it.
- dragged down is a confiscation with a bonus instead of a 1000LP cost in dark world decks and it's only used in dark world decks. Why on earth are you guys unable to see this simple fact? Would you rather I suggested limiting grapha? dragged down needs to be limited ASAP.
- rescue rabbit made so many possible decks, and it wasn't just used for rank 4 by the way. With your argument blue mountain butterspy, goblindbergh and others should also be limited. I'm sorry but no. You're just wrong. This need to be semi limited again. It was doing NOTHING harmful at 2.
- I don't really care what RotA is at, as long as it and that beast warrior searcher are at the same exact limit.
- Shi En: belzebuth laughs at six sams. a second rota won't make them too powerful, they don't have their gateway remember.
- grand mole: Yeah but that was such a long time ago. Things have changed now. Is he causing trouble in the OCG at semi limited? I really doubt it. Also recently there has been a lot of cards released that negate effects that occur during the battle phase or something similar.
- book of moon: alright..... I'll remove it
- d fissure: do you have any idea how many cool original decks were ruined by the limiting of d fissure? Do you know it turned a TCG exclusive syncro monster that was released just 10 days before into worthless garbage? A perfect example of TCG konami not knowing WTF it is doing anymore. The limit should never have happened, rather the underlying problems should have been addressed.... LIKE NECROFACE. There are probably other cards also, but i forget their names.
- macros: Here is an idea, macros to 0 and d fissure to 3 instead?