My personal take on the next TCG banlist

[Trebuchet MS]

Big Eye's been around for 2 years and nobody really paid it any mind until Dragon Rulers happened. Don't hate the Number, hate the silly archetype that made it far easier to Summon.

[Zincoshine]

konami was only trying to give support to attributes other than dark and light.... the searchers are banned.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

konami was only trying to give support to attributes other than dark and light.... the searchers are banned.

Perhaps but what they ended up creating was a complete and utter abomination of bad card design formed into a deck.

 

Seeing how you only seem to play online, I'd advise you to actually take the time and go to youtube to actually see what decks are topping IRL and how consistently they are topping.

[Sleepy]

To be fair, all 3 (Arhlord Krystia, Perfect Herald, and Shock Master) should not exist.

 

Perfect Herald is not topping anything, but just by pure principle it's a card that has only one purpose; lockdowns.

The decks I've seen it used in, it just tries to draw as many cards as possible to be able to discard for everything. It also negates all types of effect activation except for Counter Trap Cards. With 2800 DEF or a potential Honest somewhere, you are not getting rid of it too easily if you give it the opening.

The way it works, you are not really gonna think about your opponent's actions as much as you are gonna try to go for cancelling everything, and it's multi-chainable so whatever Fiendish Chain or Compulsory you would want to chain as the Link 3+ it can still respond to and negate it.

 

Also, it's a Ritual Monster, so it demands a certain amount of Deck dedication, so you can't exactly find other uses for it. Once you have dedicated a certain amount of cards to it, you might as well go all the way or it becomes a pretty bad idea, and that's all there is to it.

You either prevent your opponent from playing at all, or lose to them by losing the setup you needed and almost pretty much auto-lose, or in some cases, are forced to protect yourself with the bits of the deck that can do what a Hyperion deck can do better.

 

How is that a good thing for the game?

 

Krystia stops Special Summons. That pretty much disrupts 99% of the decks people can make. It is a mechanic that if done wrong can easily be abused. It happened with Last Turn's combo, it happened with Royal Oppression, and it pretty much happens with Archlord Krystia. It should be hit. It can easily turn into a sliding effect much of the time. It pretty much comes from the hand at no cost, seals away your opponent after you played your turn without worrying about playing around it. It gives you back a Fairy as if the card wasn't enough as is. Grabbing potential Honest to make it harder for it to be taken back.

Then when it is taken down, it returns to the top of the deck, where you can just bring it out again since odds are that your opponent was able to play around with his Graveyard's numbers. This card's result is the same Royal Oppression had on the game, except just for Fairy users, and that's no real excuse to keep it around.

 

Fossil Dyna Pachysefalo was the effect done right, with low stats to either be easily taken over, or require help to survive. It also doesn't have abusive ways of bringing it back that can result in it being consistently being dropped in Main Phase 2 to prevent your opponent's come-backs.

 

Shock Master... 

*sigh*

I made a post a while ago about Shock Master, and I don't know if I can find it, but it's so long and there is so much stuff to say about this card that if I don't find my previous comment to copy/paste, I just won't spend so much time on it again.

 

. . . . Ok, I'm back, and nope. It was some guy talking about how his Crystal Beast deck had no problem with Shock Master, and how Shock Master is not strong enough because deck should have the same amount of outs for it that would be Spells/Traps/Monster effects.

 

The thing is, that IS what Shock Master sounds like on paper, and it CAN be taken down. When people here say it's a really broken card, they aren't saying Shock Master is Yisus incarnate with bullet-proof functions. They are saying that many decks out there have focuses, and incline themselves more to Spells, to Traps, or to Effect Monsters most of the time. Which is the reason that a Shock Master Summoned at the right time (some decks are so focused on their thing that "time" doesn't even matter for Shock Master), it can just lock many decks from even playing.

 

One can say "but I used Smashing Ground on it when they called Traps, and Compulsory when they called Monsters" as much as you want, but that doesn't mean Shock Master is still not an absurdly easily accessible monster that can lock down 1/3 of a deck in theory and will lock down 1/2+ in reality. Look at it this way, being an "Extra Deck" card gives it the same accessibility as being easily searched.

 

It's not even something people are saying just because. Shock Master has proven to be doing that. 

 

Also, you said you killed it with Constellars. Why didn't your opponent call monsters? From what I've experienced, Constellars are a deck that heavily relies on it's monster's effects recycling Level 6 Summons for their Xyzs. Having an opponent not use Shock Master properly can be a thing and can cost one the duel. Having people misplay like that doesn't mean that the card correctly played isn't absurdly abusable.

 

I myself called Spells the first time I ever dueled Dragon Rulers and didn't quite know how to go about it, and it resulted in my Shock Master being stolen by Big Eye and sealing my deck for the win. Stupid calls don't justify Shock Master.

[Zincoshine]

Well if you believe herald and krystia shouldn't exist then ofcourse I am going to agree that shock master shouldn't exist. I stated that multiple times in this thread. Anyway, good morning guys.

 

 

Also, you said you killed it with Constellars. Why didn't your opponent call monsters? From what I've experienced, Constellars are a deck that heavily relies on it's monster's effects recycling Level 6 Summons for their Xyzs. Having an opponent not use Shock Master properly can be a thing and can cost one the duel. Having people misplay like that doesn't mean that the card correctly played isn't absurdly abusable.

 

no, it was an OCG match and my opponent was playing..... something..... and i was using my rabbit warrior deck. I got out two shock masters, one with 3300 ATK due to extra S and called out monsters and spell cards and i think i had a decree meaning it was essentially a total lockdown. This would almost certainly have ended in unquestionable victory for me. However, you need to remember that shock master doesn't stop special summons so what he did the next turn was first summon cyber dragon, then summon ghost ship then summon pleidas from those two. He simply attacked and killed the shock master with a normal attack then the moment my turn started, shock master's effect wore out and he chained pleidas's effect to my standby phase and got rid of the second shock master. It was pretty much game over then because despite your argument that it is easy to summon, it is in fact expensive to summon any "3 level 4" xyz monster and loosing one too soon can mean game (which is why I am put at a serious disadvantage if my kusanagi gets solemn'd. I had a demo of it but it's broken. http://gyazo.com/ccb0eba931a0ee2dbc4a2e84202a7e35 I have eternal respect for that player.

Anyway, I agree with shock master being banned but ONLY if herald and krystia are both banned as well.

[Zincoshine]

-snip. sorry for double post-

[goddamnit names are a pain]

To be fair, all 3 (Arhlord Krystia, Perfect Herald, and Shock Master) should not exist.

 

Perfect Herald is not topping anything, but just by pure principle it's a card that has only one purpose; lockdowns.

The decks I've seen it used in, it just tries to draw as many cards as possible to be able to discard for everything. It also negates all types of effect activation except for Counter Trap Cards. With 2800 DEF or a potential Honest somewhere, you are not getting rid of it too easily if you give it the opening.

The way it works, you are not really gonna think about your opponent's actions as much as you are gonna try to go for cancelling everything, and it's multi-chainable so whatever Fiendish Chain or Compulsory you would want to chain as the Link 3+ it can still respond to and negate it.

 

Also, it's a Ritual Monster, so it demands a certain amount of Deck dedication, so you can't exactly find other uses for it. Once you have dedicated a certain amount of cards to it, you might as well go all the way or it becomes a pretty bad idea, and that's all there is to it.

You either prevent your opponent from playing at all, or lose to them by losing the setup you needed and almost pretty much auto-lose, or in some cases, are forced to protect yourself with the bits of the deck that can do what a Hyperion deck can do better.

 

How is that a good thing for the game?

 

Krystia stops Special Summons. That pretty much disrupts 99% of the decks people can make. It is a mechanic that if done wrong can easily be abused. It happened with Last Turn's combo, it happened with Royal Oppression, and it pretty much happens with Archlord Krystia. It should be hit. It can easily turn into a sliding effect much of the time. It pretty much comes from the hand at no cost, seals away your opponent after you played your turn without worrying about playing around it. It gives you back a Fairy as if the card wasn't enough as is. Grabbing potential Honest to make it harder for it to be taken back.

Then when it is taken down, it returns to the top of the deck, where you can just bring it out again since odds are that your opponent was able to play around with his Graveyard's numbers. This card's result is the same Royal Oppression had on the game, except just for Fairy users, and that's no real excuse to keep it around.

 

Fossil Dyna Pachysefalo was the effect done right, with low stats to either be easily taken over, or require help to survive. It also doesn't have abusive ways of bringing it back that can result in it being consistently being dropped in Main Phase 2 to prevent your opponent's come-backs.

 

Shock Master... 

*sigh*

I made a post a while ago about Shock Master, and I don't know if I can find it, but it's so long and there is so much stuff to say about this card that if I don't find my previous comment to copy/paste, I just won't spend so much time on it again.

 

. . . . Ok, I'm back, and nope. It was some guy talking about how his Crystal Beast deck had no problem with Shock Master, and how Shock Master is not strong enough because deck should have the same amount of outs for it that would be Spells/Traps/Monster effects.

 

The thing is, that IS what Shock Master sounds like on paper, and it CAN be taken down. When people here say it's a really broken card, they aren't saying Shock Master is Yisus incarnate with bullet-proof functions. They are saying that many decks out there have focuses, and incline themselves more to Spells, to Traps, or to Effect Monsters most of the time. Which is the reason that a Shock Master Summoned at the right time (some decks are so focused on their thing that "time" doesn't even matter for Shock Master), it can just lock many decks from even playing.

 

One can say "but I used Smashing Ground on it when they called Traps, and Compulsory when they called Monsters" as much as you want, but that doesn't mean Shock Master is still not an absurdly easily accessible monster that can lock down 1/3 of a deck in theory and will lock down 1/2+ in reality. Look at it this way, being an "Extra Deck" card gives it the same accessibility as being easily searched.

 

It's not even something people are saying just because. Shock Master has proven to be doing that. 

Ok, if a card should be banned just because it shuts out decks it fights, then you are implying Evilswarm Ophion needs to be hit. That thing shuts down Synchros and the like just when it hits the field. I feel like saying the same thing about Crimson Blader, but he has a condition that has to be met, so...

And I don't really feel like saying it, but I handled Shock Master every once in a while, but that is because my deck didn't focus on anything. Is it not ok for decks to be hurt for focusing too hard on a standpoint? If you play a draw heavy deck, and someone plays a card that stops drawing, it doesn't mean it should be banned. I'm just saying. Not that Shocky should go to 3, or to 2. But maybe, someday, far far away, at 1.

 

Krystia is easy to summon. But not ban worthy. Sure, it shuts down SS, but tribute summons are still a thing. Also, the to the top of the deck thing seems to also serve the chance to be a potential draw back. Not to mention her SS effect effects the player playing it. I can understand if you can somehow manipulate grave state to do that, but that does require a correct set up that the opponent could screw up at any time just by getting rid of a monster you weren't counting on. I may be playing Agents wrong, but Krystia is 50/50 for me, sometimes just being a deadweight beater on the field. And then back to the top of my deck to be the bad draw that seals my fate. Not banworthy, but I think at 1 makes sense. Got nothing on the Herald though, never seen him played yet....off to build a Herald deck.

[Aix]

Ok, if a card should be banned just because it shuts out decks it fights, then you are implying Evilswarm Ophion needs to be hit. That thing shuts down Synchros and the like just when it hits the field.

We never said Ophion shouldn't be hit.

 

And I don't really feel like saying it, but I handled Shock Master every once in a while, but that is because my deck didn't focus on anything. Is it not ok for decks to be hurt for focusing too hard on a standpoint? If you play a draw heavy deck, and someone plays a card that stops drawing, it doesn't mean it should be banned.

Shock Master is utterly different as you get to both choose what you want to shut down and also the effect doesn't go away when you kill him. His ATK is high enough that you cannot just Normal Summon something to kill him off with and half the time any sort of Special Summon is an effect (including effects to Summon the material in order to Synchro/Xyz Summon). In addition, he can just call whatever it is that you will probably use to try to kill him. Also, try building something like Shinras, Dark Worlds, Spellbooks, Dragon Rulers, Vampires, Mecha Phantom Beast, Hazy Flames, Fire Kings or Mermail (these are just Decks that come off the top of my head) and tell me that Shock Master cannot screw you over by calling monsters (or Spells for Spellbooks), especially when it comes first turn, which it frequently does.

 

tribute summons are still a thing.

Is this still 2000?

Krystia is easy to summon. But not ban worthy. Sure, it shuts down SS, but tribute summons are still a thing. Also, the to the top of the deck thing seems to also serve the chance to be a potential draw back. Not to mention her SS effect effects the player playing it. I can understand if you can somehow manipulate grave state to do that, but that does require a correct set up that the opponent could screw up at any time just by getting rid of a monster you weren't counting on. I may be playing Agents wrong, but Krystia is 50/50 for me, sometimes just being a deadweight beater on the field. And then back to the top of my deck to be the bad draw that seals my fate. Not banworthy, but I think at 1 makes sense. Got nothing on the Herald though, never seen him played yet....off to build a Herald deck.

Playing it more often than not means GG as it's a Vanity's Emptiness on 2800 body that can easily come back if you kill it and even retrieves a Fairy for you from your Graveyard.

 

Herald just says no to interaction.

[Zincoshine]

ophion doesn't need to be hit because ark knight can be summoned in pretty much any deck.

 

shock master does not block special summons.

 

herald and krystia will also screw over all those decks you mentioned. so either all three are banned or all three are limited. That's the only way to make it fair. Do keep in mind the player using shock master needs to know what deck you are using in order to choose the right thing to negate. herald and krystia don't even need to do that.

Anyway, I have yet to get any comments on the following changes that are in my list:
neo spacian grand mole at semi limited
book of moon at semi limited

solemn judgement at limited
dark armed dragon at banned
honest at banned
noblswarm belzebuth at limited
deck devastation card at limited
dragged down into the grave at limited

would be nice to get some feedback on those

[Blake]

ophion doesn't need to be hit because ark knight can be summoned in pretty much any deck.

 

shock master does not block special summons.

 

herald and krystia will also screw over all those decks you mentioned. so either all three are banned or all three are limited. That's the only way to make it fair.

Anyway, I have yet to get any comments on the following changes that are in my list

 

would be nice to get some feedback on those

That's a shitty argument. "But counters exist" is not a valid argument of any sort. Like, how can you even think that? Chaos Emperor Dragon isn't banworthy because Effect Veiler, Breakthrough Skill, Fiendish Chain, Torrential Tribute, Bottomless Trap Hole, and Solemn Warning, right?

 

What you don't seem to realize is how incredibly generic Shock Master is. Krystia's only really runnable in Herald or Agents, neither of which are relevant. Herald needs a devoted deck. Shock Master can and will be run in anything that can Rank 4, because it singlehandedly wins games. All 3 are horrible for the game, but Shock Master is more pressing because it's really fucking generic.

 

Also, he knows that Shock Master doesn't stop Special Summons. He just said good luck special summoning bar something like CyDra while it's out.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

We never said Ophion shouldn't be hit.

Well, someone did. And once again, logic that says "one card can beat it, its fair." 

 

Shock Master is utterly different as you get to both choose what you want to shut down and also the effect doesn't go away when you kill him. His ATK is high enough that you cannot just Normal Summon something to kill him off with and half the time any sort of Special Summon is an effect (including effects to Summon the material in order to Synchro/Xyz Summon). In addition, he can just call whatever it is that you will probably use to try to kill him. Also, try building something like Shinras, Dark Worlds, Spellbooks, Dragon Rulers, Vampires, Mecha Phantom Beast, Hazy Flames, Fire Kings or Mermail (these are just Decks that come off the top of my head) and tell me that Shock Master cannot screw you over by calling monsters (or Spells for Spellbooks), especially when it comes first turn, which it frequently does.

 

Ok, my bad on Shocky. I just think over-reliance is an issue these days, but that could just be me. You're right in this case.

 

Is this still 2000?

I meant you can still do them. Not that they are currently being done, but you can. Heck, this may sound stupid, but I had to Tribute Summon Krysita today.

 

Playing it more often than not means GG as it's a Vanity's Emptiness on 2800 body that can easily come back if you kill it and even retrieves a Fairy for you from your Graveyard.

Even gets a Fairy, IF you summon with its effect. I just wanted to get that out of the way. People here act like you always SS it, and as soon as it goes back to the deck, you can SS it again. Just not true.  The SS thing is quite unfair, but I still don't think it is ban worthy.

Herald just says no to interaction.

Fair enough.

[Zincoshine]

Krystia is easy to summon. But not ban worthy. Sure, it shuts down SS, but tribute summons are still a thing.

They used to be a thing before konami limited macro cosmos and d fissure, thus killing D.D monarchs along with a lot of other harmless fun decks. they need to go back to unlimited I am telling you

[Blake]

They used to be a thing before konami limited macro cosmos and d fissure, thus killing D.D monarchs along with a lot of other harmless fun decks. they need to go back to unlimited I am telling you

D.D. Monarchs have never really been relevant enough to mention, so no fucking clue what you're on about.

 

Frog Monarchs still exist.

 

Difi and Macro were limited to improve the health of the game. They shut decks down by simply existing, especially with heavy storm not being a thing. People now won't be afraid to set double Macro for the most part.

 

Hell, the list was designed by a well known player with input from lots of other well known players. Konami let the players who know abotu the gamestate make the decision in the TCG.

 

It's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. Stop whining about how your fun decks were killed or whatever. If they required poisonous cards for the gamestate they didn't deserve to exist.

[Zincoshine]

That's a shitty argument. "But counters exist" is not a valid argument of any sort. Like, how can you even think that? Chaos Emperor Dragon isn't banworthy because Effect Veiler, Breakthrough Skill, Fiendish Chain, Torrential Tribute, Bottomless Trap Hole, and Solemn Warning, right?

 

What you don't seem to realize is how incredibly generic Shock Master is. Krystia's only really runnable in Herald or Agents, neither of which are relevant. Herald needs a devoted deck. Shock Master can and will be run in anything that can Rank 4, because it singlehandedly wins games. All 3 are horrible for the game, but Shock Master is more pressing because it's really fucking generic.

 

Also, he knows that Shock Master doesn't stop Special Summons. He just said good luck special summoning bar something like CyDra while it's out.

ophion doesn't break the game in one move.

as for your argument about it being generic. I'm not buying it because I am pro creativity and anti archetype. I'm not saying that shock master promotes creative decks (it doesn't), I am just saying that unless a deck is made that can seriously abuse a limited shock master then it should be at limited. (if herald and krystia are not banned). speaking of creativity, creativity is the reason why I became so pissed off when the TCG banlist was first announced. Indeed, the banlist at the time made it so that you can't run any deck unless it's focused on an archetype and winning is entirely luck based thanks to sixth sense. It indirectly provided a big buff to e drags, not least because of the shock master ban. The recently OCG card releases however have changed this, especially raiden which is an amazing card for so many decks.

 

 

D.D. Monarchs have never really been relevant enough to mention, so no fucking clue what you're on about.

 

Frog Monarchs still exist.

 

Difi and Macro were limited to improve the health of the game. They shut decks down by simply existing, especially with heavy storm not being a thing. People now won't be afraid to set double Macro for the most part.

 

Hell, the list was designed by a well known player with input from lots of other well known players. Konami let the players who know abotu the gamestate make the decision in the TCG.

 

It's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. Stop whining about how your fun decks were killed or whatever. If they required poisonous cards for the gamestate they didn't deserve to exist.

 

 

ok, here's an idea that has been on my mind for the past few days:
Why not ban macro cosmos, and make d fissure unlimited?

I find it extremely hard to believe a well known player made the TCG list, at the time it was made without the OCG cards released since september it looked like something made by a 12 year old that doesn't know about decree and recently lost a match to shock master and got butthurt. The most telling sign is that solemn judgment was banned while solemn warning was kept at limited. Who would ban solemn judgment but keep solemn warning? I removed solemn judgment from my main deck 1 week before I even knew what the new TCG banlist was. 4000 LP for a card that can't even stop gorz. no thanks. traps? who doesn't use royal decree these days? spells? Seriously, what other generic spell threat is there than dark hole that could warrant a solemn judgment? all the other spells have been banned.

[Blake]

ophion doesn't break the game in one move.

as for your argument about it being generic. I'm not buying it because I am pro creativity and anti archetype. I'm not saying that shock master promotes creative decks (it doesn't), I am just saying that unless a deck is made that can seriously abuse a limited shock master then it should be at limited. (if herald and krystia are not banned). speaking of creativity, creativity is the reason why I became so pissed off when the TCG banlist was first announced. Indeed, the banlist at the time made it so that you can't run any deck unless it's focused on an archetype and winning is entirely luck based thanks to sixth sense. It indirectly provided a big buff to e drags, not least because of the shock master ban. The recently OCG card releases however have changed this, especially raiden which is an amazing card for so many decks.

Yes he does. Unless you can somehow make Temtempo/a rank 4 while trying to survive, you basically lose. Main deck answers don't count because they have to be drawn into.

 

No one gives a fuck about "pro-creative decks". That's the arguments scrubs use to defend playing shitty decks. It makes you looks like an idiot when you use that argument.

 

And there are decks. Hunders, Wind-ups did, Gadgets, etc. I mean, Number 69: Heraldry Crest is a thing. It just serves as extra, more versatile, and beefier copies of Shock Master. Hell, most decks only RAN 1 Shock Master, so the argument "1 is fine" is extremely ignorant of its actual usage.

 

And the format's not luck based thanks to Sixth Sense. Wow, one sacky card exists, whole format ruined. The OCG is so much better off with Card Destruction and Super Rejuvenation still around.

[Zincoshine]

Yes he does. Unless you can somehow make Temtempo/a rank 4 while trying to survive, you basically lose. Main deck answers don't count because they have to be drawn into.

 

No one gives a fuck about "pro-creative decks". That's the arguments scrubs use to defend playing shitty decks. It makes you looks like an idiot when you use that argument.

 

And there are decks. Hunders, Wind-ups did, Gadgets, etc. I mean, Number 69: Heraldry Crest is a thing. It just serves as extra, more versatile, and beefier copies of Shock Master. Hell, most decks only RAN 1 Shock Master, so the argument "1 is fine" is extremely ignorant of its actual usage.

 

And the format's not luck based thanks to Sixth Sense. Wow, one sacky card exists, whole format ruined. The OCG is so much better off with Card Destruction and Super Rejuvenation still around.

Too bad mine isn't shitty. Sorry if you lack creativity and feel so jealous at people with original decks that you feel the need to vent at them. Maybe you should put some dedication to one like I have been doing for the past 6 months and you too can have a nice original deck that can defeat most decks and is a serious challenge to archetype decks. Creativity thrives in the OCG format by the way despite it's problems with retarded cards like super rejuvenation and card destruction being around.

edit:
Hunders: Yeah they can get it out easily, but not abuse a single one.
wind-ups: Who still plays that crap archetype?
gadgets: Well, not really. machina fortress and shock master won't make a happy couple.

[Kazooie]

Too bad mine isn't shitty. Sorry if you lack creativity and feel so jealous at people with original decks that you feel the need to vent at them. Maybe you should put some dedication to one like I have been doing for the past 6 months and you too can have a nice original deck that can defeat most decks and is a serious challenge to archetype decks.

 

You are absolutely hilarious.

 

As a person who plays gems such as 60-Card-Inzektor-Agent-Wind-Up-Mash, Rock-Stun-With-Some-Gorgon-Things, and Morphtronics, you have literally made me laugh more than most things I have ever seen on YCM.

 

There is a difference between playing competitive and playing casual. Yugioh's banlist should be judged based on the competitive part, not the casual.

 

Shock Master is not a fair card. Claiming it's a fair card is like saying that Cold Wave never caused any problems in the game, but I'm sure you would claim that too.

 

Your post is an absolute joke, and so are you. 

 

He isn't jealous of you, you just have no idea how banlists should work, what is good design and what isn't, and you refuse to listen to anyone else.

 

Also btw, until Yugioh killed the deck completely, the person you are talking to had put in at least a year or two working on his Fabled build, so don't go tlking to him about dedication to a deck please.

[Zincoshine]

elite member, more like elitism member.

I tell you what, since you think you're so high and mighty, I challenge you to a duel. TCG banlist, TCG and OCG cards allowed. 2 out of 3 wins.
my username on devpro is Zincoshine, same as here. I'll be waiting for you, or you could not show up and we'll know who the real joke is.

On the discussion on shock master, for the 1 millionth time I agree it is not fair, but I don't agree with it being banned while similar cards remain unbanned.

Edit: yeah i refuse to listen to anyone, despite the fact that I have changed my banlist in accordance with the opinion of people in here. Just shut up and get on devpro already.

[Aerion Brightflame]

On the discussion on shock master, for the 1 millionth time I agree it is not fair, but I don't agree with it being banned while similar cards remain unbanned.

 

Just chiming in here with the obvious:

 

Why not ban the other really badly designed lockdown cards and make the game healthier than toss one back into it? It's not exactly a hard idea to think of.

 

Also the entire idea of using a duel to solve an argument is laughable, because this is not the anime. It does not prove your point in any measure of the idea. All it proves is that you can't continue the argument any further implying you know it's bad.

[Zincoshine]

Just chiming in here with the obvious:

 

Why not ban the other really badly designed lockdown cards and make the game healthier than toss one back into it?

That's what I did, see my updated list on the first page. I agree with you and the others who also said this.

Also the entire idea of using a duel to solve an argument is laughable, because this is not the anime. It does not prove your point in any measure of the idea. All it proves is that you can't continue the argument any further implying you know it's bad.

It's not the anime, but it is related to yu-gi-oh decks and his elitism does warrant a duel to show who is right.

[Kazooie]

elite member, more like elitism member.

I tell you what, since you think you're so high and mighty, I challenge you to a duel. TCG banlist, TCG and OCG cards allowed. 2 out of 3 wins.
my username on devpro is Zincoshine, same as here. I'll be waiting for you, or you could not show up and we'll know who the real joke is.

On the discussion on shock master, for the 1 millionth time I agree it is not fair, but I don't agree with it being banned while similar cards remain unbanned.

 

I'm not an elitist, I just really hate it when people who refuse to listen to reason when it's already been handed to them.

 

I don't play the game much. I keep up with the meta. I prefer theory far more than the actual game. A duel doesn't solve anything. You act like it does, but it doesn't.

 

If a card is horrible design, it doesn't deserve to remain. 1 Shock Master has far more of an effect on the game than 2 Krysta, or even 3 Herald. Both those cards deserve to be hit yes, but at the moment, Shock Master is far more of a problem due to being far more accesable to more decks. One deck can use Herald, and two or three decks can use Krysta. Compare that to Shocky who has a whole lot more going for him than the other two. That's why they're still around when Shock isn't.

 

They certainly don't deserve to be though, and you can't try to use them as leverage to bring Shock back to 1 when they should be at zero as well.

[Zincoshine]

@chamption diantha:
No, i'm listening to everyone, and I want as much feedback as possible, and I'm very happy that this is getting the amount of criticism that it has gotten. I don't mind being proven wrong, I embrace it as it allows me to improve and learn fast. That is except for listening to you now, because you just proved you're full of shit when you think you can judge my deck and then say you don't even play often instead of accepting a duel so congrats, you are the first person on this forum to make it into my ignore list.

Anyway, lets get back on topic, I asked on the previous page for opinions regarding the following ideas:
-neo spacian grand mole at semi limited
-book of moon at semi limited solemn judgement at limited
-dark armed dragon at banned
-honest at banned
-noblswarm belzebuth at limited
-deck devastation card at limited
-dragged down into the grave at limited
-Azure eyes silver dragon at limited
 

[goddamnit names are a pain]

Ophion doesn't break the game in one move.

Uh, yeah it does. Just needed to go back to this.

And how can you say one archetype is crappy when you run literal garbage? Come on, dude, be realistic.

Edit- Join DN, fight my creative deck. And don't keep flaming here with all this shut up crap.

 

And shoot me for saying Sixth Sense shouldn't be banned. I won't go into details why. Limited works though.

And its hard to put opinions on cards that really don't need opinions.

Azure Eyes at 1 is kind of dumb.

Dragged is an equal swap.

Belzebuth is not TCG yet, and won't be by this list.

Honest is just fine, changes one battle.

Dark Armed is already at 1, and can blow up 3 when summoned. Is DARK specific, I see no real issues here.

Neo Spacian Grand Mole is just a troll. No real opinions on it.

I don't feel like commenting on the last ones.

[Toffee.]

elite member, more like elitism member.

I tell you what, since you think you're so high and mighty, I challenge you to a duel. TCG banlist, TCG and OCG cards allowed. 2 out of 3 wins.
my username on devpro is Zincoshine, same as here. I'll be waiting for you, or you could not show up and we'll know who the real joke is.

Please, just stop.
Resorting to: "DURRR I CAN SACK WINS HARDER THEN YOU CAN; MY FALTY LOGIC IS MASTER RACE!!111!1one" never did, and never will, solve anything.
This is partially due to the fact you can't understand simple reasoning, let alone basic concepts, with regards to how abusive a card is. Hell, Kazooie could even play a self-kill deck. What would that duel accomplish then? Still nothing? I thought so.
That aside... You even claim Raiden is good for every deck, what, because it randomly mills the top 2 cards on the grounds that it's basically another Card Trooper? The fact it's a Tuner is irrelevant, because the former reason is the more prominent factor, using your reasoning. So tell me; How does a deck that does nothing but sit on it's ass all day and not care about the gamestate, only how many [Card/Archetype X]-cards it mills, and drop sacky bosses X, Y, and Z that it casually drew into, considered a good thing?

[Zincoshine]

@techGenus:
you don't know what I run TechGenus. And how can you say it compares with CED? does it send all your cards to the grave? no.

This is partially due to the fact you can't understand simple reasoning, let alone basic concepts, with regards to how abusive a card is.

which card? you better not say shock master. I already said I agree it should be banned together with herald of perfect and krystia.