Trying to help a friend

[goddamnit names are a pain]

DW takes an immense amount of skill to play and top with right now, and it's the best anti-meta deck this format. Boxers are still trash.

Dark Worlds? Skill?
I'm not to sure about that. And I still don't think this guy is trying to play in tournaments tier 1-2 and all that.

Boxers are perfectly fine, what are you even saying? 

Not as a freaking Tier1-2 deck no, but they play just fine.

[Althemia]

Boxers are perfectly fine, what are you even saying? 
Not as a freaking Tier1-2 deck no, but they play just fine.

Boxers aren't going to be able to compete with the top decks though. They aren't on that power level. :T

[goddamnit names are a pain]

Boxers aren't going to be able to compete with the top decks though. They aren't on that power level. :T

But did he say he needed the deck to do that? It's just what I'm wondering.

This whole thread really depends on if this guy is talking casual or tournament. I saw it as casual.

 

Also he/she said cheap so I also thought it was casual/budget hence why I'm not listing the "best" decks.

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

But did he say he needed the deck to do that? It's just what I'm wondering.

This whole thread really depends on if this guy is talking casual or tournament. I saw it as casual.

Well, I know that if I were trying to learn a card game, I would rather get into it with an easy Deck that is powerful over a different easy Deck that doesn't fare as well. He'd be better off closer to the full power of any Deck in Yugioh, unless he's a wimp who wishes everything was as slow and weak as two-thousand and late.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

Well, I know that if I were trying to learn a card game, I would rather get into it with an easy Deck that is powerful over a different easy Deck that doesn't fare as well. He'd be better off closer to the full power of any Deck in Yugioh, unless he's a wimp who wishes everything was as slow and weak as two-thousand and late.

Then what's wrong with Boxers? D=

Last I checked they can be strong and the extra deck is cheap for the most part, bar Exciton, Chain, and 101. 

 

But you do give a fair point.

[Ultravires]

Dark Worlds? Skill?
I'm not to sure about that. And I still don't think this guy is trying to play in tournaments tier 1-2 and all that.

Boxers are perfectly fine, what are you even saying?
Not as a freaking Tier1-2 deck no, but they play just fine.

I'm not saying that for OP's benefit really. It's simple fact. DW isn't linear anymore in the slightest, they're played as an aggressive grind game rather than vomiting their hand the way they used to.

Boxers can't handle all the effect negation, 101 plays, Big Eye plays and non-targeting non-destroying removal rampant in the current meta. Also I'd rather give advice that would benefit someone even going into higher levels of play than coddle them.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

I'm not saying that for OP's benefit really. It's simple fact. DW isn't linear anymore in the slightest, they're played as an aggressive grind game rather than vomiting their hand the way they used to.

Boxers can't handle all the effect negation, 101 plays, Big Eye plays and non-targeting non-destroying removal rampant in the current meta. Also I'd rather give advice that would benefit someone even going into higher levels of play than coddle them.

Fair enough, talking on a tournament/meta level. They can't handle much in that aspect.

On the DW thing though....assuming I know what linear means.....

the deck is literally: pitch hand, SS Grapha

 

It's really easy and quite aggressive. Sounds linear to me

[Delibirb]

I wasnt kidding about the Dustons, though. All of their cards are less than a quarter and more often than not 10 cents. (US currency because 'Murica)

 

They are really enjoyable to play with and can hold their own in a number of situations. Biggest thing cost-wise would be extra deck, but Lion Heart's only like $2-3 at best.

[Ultravires]

Fair enough, talking on a tournament/meta level. They can't handle much in that aspect.

On the DW thing though....assuming I know what linear means.....

the deck is literally: pitch hand, SS Grapha

 

It's really easy and quite aggressive. Sounds linear to me

 

It's not quite so linear anymore. I picked up the deck again after their first top this format, for the first time since they were tier 1, and went a couple hundred rounds with it. I playtest everything that tops so much as a foreign regionals just to see how it plays if not to find out whether I want to play it myself. In any case, while the deck still has its linear plays, as every deck does (i.e. Tenkibearpop, Somethingkaus into Pleiades and spin, MewAngelly into a massive advantage play, etc.), it doesn't really require you to vomit your hand any more.

 

On the contrary, you want to save Graphas in hand to pitch with Smog or Crush on the opponent's turn, just to disrupt high percentage plays before or while they're making them. In addition it takes a great amount of forethought to decide when to drop your Drains and when to hold back and get another use out of Trance. I still think the deck is degenerate as fuck because of its constant easy access to EEV, DDV, Skill Drain, Dark Smog and Mind Crush, and the amount of knowledge all of those cards impart alongside Dragged Down, but it's ignorant to dismiss it as a skill-less deck anymore, especially when game 2 and 3 are still quite difficult to play through.

[DL]

I'd say that a good deck for beginners is Gusto.

 

Its deck searching.

 

And deck searching.

 

And deck searching.

 

Also it can definitely survive quite well.

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

Overall, I'd get them started off with the following steps:

1. Tell them to read the manual.

What I really mean by 1: Lock them in a room and force them to watch tutorial videos until they know how to duel.

 

2. Get them 3 sets of the Dark Worlds deck and 1 of each of the viruses, and 2-3 skill drains.

What I really mean by 2: Ask them to read through the top decks, and other popular decks. Show them relative costs of cards that could be good and show them what they could think of them. If they can't afford or do not want to spend that much on key cards, try looking for cheaper alternatives, like overprinted xyz and synchros that are still or recently were in print.

 

3. ????

What I really mean by 3: Let the gearias turn in their head, and offer some of your excesses (commons and rares that are useful for starting a deck).

 

4. Profit!

What I really mean by 4: Warn them of the addictive properties of collectible card games, and try to get them another hobby, like reading books videogames. 

[newhat]

Gravekeeper's is a good archetype for beginners. The biggest mistakes you can make are in Deck construction.

[EtphTheElephant]

Maybe a Photon/Galaxy deck?

[玄魔の王]

Why do you want to introduce them to this game? It's a massive cluster-EFF- with one of the most divided and ill-tempered player bases in existence, half of which wants to quit at any given moment yet bizarrely doesn't.

Tell them to stick to strategy games.

[Dog King]

Why do you want to introduce them to this game? It's a massive cluster-EFF- with one of the most divided and ill-tempered player bases in existence, half of which wants to quit at any given moment yet bizarrely doesn't.

Tell them to stick to strategy games.

 

ygo is a strategy game

[玄魔の王]

ygo is a strategy game

Not really. The vast majority of strong decks in this game are autoplay and take very little thought to operate. You go through the cycles of your own independent deck, occasionally actually addressing the opponent.

Contrast chess, which is a good example of a strategy game.

[Jackson Tricks]

All very fantastic ideas. Although I have a suggestion too, what about Chronomaly cards? They're easy to use, have an excellent swarm tactic, and can get you out of tight spots if you have the right cards. But what do you guys think?

[Loyalist]

Chronomaly will be a very good deck after Primal Origins. Not so sure on their prices.

 

Their cards individually are quite simple and with short, basic effects but with many different ways to play them you still have to retain skill in both deck making and playing.

 

Definitely worth consideration.

[Blake]

ITT: Suggest decks that are bad for new players but you like

 

Just start on something like R4.dek (avoid more combo based ones like Gogogo and go for more streamlined ones like Gadgets, though both would be a reasonable start) or the aforementioned Frogs or Constellars. You don't want to overwhelm them, because the diversity of the Extra Deck in R4/Cosntellar is enough to be almost overwhelming, while Frogs are just an all around nice place to start.

[newhat]

Here are some Decks you do not want to start with:

 

1. Fabled, Geargia or any other "throw hand on field" Deck where none of the cards destroy anything. You need to have your moves planned out and contingency plans if something gets negated or exploded. A beginner would look at their hand for 5 minutes, make Mist Wurm and die. I know this from my starting experience.

 

2. Gagaga, Photon or other Level-variable Xyz Decks: These bleed away advantage and rely on situational combos to win games explosively. New players tend to rely on topdecking and topdecking is death.

 

3. Anything containing these cards:

[Dog King]

Not really. The vast majority of strong decks in this game are autoplay and take very little thought to operate. You go through the cycles of your own independent deck, occasionally actually addressing the opponent.

Contrast chess, which is a good example of a strategy game.

 

So why do a lot of the same players constantly top events?

 

In yugioh you have to build the right deck, choose the right card choices, be able to side, know a lot of possible moves v top decks, be able to use your hand wisely, know when to go for an otk, etc,

 

Chess never changes, so once you know how to play it you just play it... in yugioh formats change and your decks and siding have to change etc, if you want to win anything.

 

Soo im not sure how yugioh isnt a strategy game.

[Ultravires]

So why do a lot of the same players constantly top events?

In yugioh you have to build the right deck, choose the right card choices, be able to side, know a lot of possible moves v top decks, be able to use your hand wisely, know when to go for an otk, etc,

Chess never changes, so once you know how to play it you just play it... in yugioh formats change and your decks and siding have to change etc, if you want to win anything.

Soo im not sure how yugioh isnt a strategy game.

The game is about skill and rote memorization, sure, but that's a poor argument. Most pro players have been caught or openly admit to stacking, pileshuffling, slowplaying, palming cards and scooping to get teammates with better records higher placings. The competitive scene has been that way since Comic Odyssey was dominating in 03/04.