Speedy the First Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Seeing as we have so many Extra Deck cards to choose from and a 15 card limit on it, we may not be able to run a few cards. All I am suggesting is that Konami bump the Extra Deck limit up to 20. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet MS Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Forcing the cards to compete for Extra Deck space means we have to actually think about what Extra Deck cards to run instead of toolboxing everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:^) Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Just Side Deck Extra Deck cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 If any expansion on the extra deck happens, it'll probably come with other restrictions. eg: 20 card extra deck, but only 15 of one type of card allowed. That being said, it'll probably be easier just to leave as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Forcing the cards to compete for Extra Deck space means we have to actually think about what Extra Deck cards to run instead of toolboxing everything. Or it means you need to play the most generic blanket cards rather than fun niche cards. It's pretty shit game design TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet MS Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Have you faced players whose Extra Deck would end up being taller than their Main Deck, if not for that restriction? Or those whose binders double as their Extra Deck? It's facepalm-inducing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 So? That isn't even a real argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I mean, I'd rather have an extra deck limited to deciding what's a good call for the format and in general than "run everything".Even 20 seems degenerate. Too many options that just don't quite fit atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I think a larger extra deck adds more skill. Currently you just use whatever is generic and that's that. If it were bigger, there'd be more skill in selecting what cards you'd pick (at least for a small while). I honestly don't see how 20 would be degenerate. Explain to me what 5 cards you could add that would kill the format and why those cards aren't played now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I think a larger extra deck adds more skill. Currently you just use whatever is generic and that's that. If it were bigger, there'd be more skill in selecting what cards you'd pick (at least for a small while). I honestly don't see how 20 would be degenerate. Explain to me what 5 cards you could add that would kill the format and why those cards aren't played now. That's completely untrue. You don't just run what's generic. In decks that can R4 but aren't R4.dek it is, but only in terms of R4, but that's otherwise rarely the case. The Extra Deck cards are the selling point for most decks. And some decks are held back because they don't have enough ED room with only 15. The selling points for a lot of decks IS the non-generic bosses; Hell, Ophion and Bahamut are the only reason Eswarm have any reason to be played. You can argue Kerykeion, but without Ophion that wouldn't matter. Currently, the R4 pool is incredibly vast. However, there are cards you can't always fit despite wanting to. Heartlandraco, Gagaga Cowboy, Gagaga Samurai in OCG post-NECH, Cairngorgon, Ragna Zero post-DUEA, the extra copy/ies of Rhapsoy in Berserk, Number 18 as a tech against random decks, Blackship of Corn, Maestroke, 52, etc. Now, not all of those are good. But that said, Heartlandraco is already near universally mained. Cairngorgon is good before the ED finishes its oversaturation, and Ragna Zero is a format card that you also want to run generically if you have lance, but usually won't be able to afford to. Extra Rhapsody can be really, really valuable, as can extra Abyss Dweller, despite already being staples. Corn's usable with hands about and does see play. But a lot of times, cards like these cost valuable ED space that isn't worth surrendering for niche scenarios. With 5 more slots, you get to the point of having an answer to basically every situation, as well as, once it gets here, having the ability to run 2-3 noden without giving up anything but niche options. Giving you the space to have almost universal answers is a terrible idea. Explain to me, in real logic, as opposed to what you've presented that is ignorant of the gamestate, how 5 more cards is any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 You didn't actually explain much and didn't do much besides insulting me (please be kind). I wanted you to tell me what I can run in those 5 slots that makes the game degenerate. You didn't tell me. You explained to me that space is tight and there are a lot of good choices and from that you concluded "[w]ith 5 more slots, you get to the point of having an answer to basically every situation". That's not a full argument. How do those 5 extra cards translate into "almost universal answers"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 You didn't actually explain much and didn't do much besides insulting me (please be kind). I wanted you to tell me what I can run in those 5 slots that makes the game degenerate. You didn't tell me. You explained to me that space is tight and there are a lot of good choices and from that you concluded "[w]ith 5 more slots, you get to the point of having an answer to basically every situation". That's not a full argument. How do those 5 extra cards translate into "almost universal answers"? I did explain to you, you just didn't use context. And you still haven't told me how your point stands. Those 5 slots make it so you don't have to worry about space. You throw in every generic card that answers whatever situation and then you move on. If it's remotely realistic, you have an answer. A smaller extra means you have to think about which situations you want to worry about, not just be ready for everything, and encourages you to build the deck to the format more because you have to prioritize card worth. Those 5 extra cards cover whatever weakness you couldn't manage as more than techs before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 So? That isn't even a real argument. His argument is "No Deck limit? PLAY ALL THE CARDS!" You say we'll be forced to run blanket cards, but with no extra deck limit there's literally no point to picking and choosing what cards to play instead of just playing 3 of every card you can summon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Having an absolute out to everything and potentially in multiples cause issues. There won't be any "out of the box" ideas because those will also be potentially shut down. There won't be an equivalent exchange factor when deck-building the extra deck, which to be honest is a fun part even if often we would like to fit in more stuff. If it's for competitive, the small limit is good as is, just think carefully what to put. If it's for casuals, you aren't really tied to anything there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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