Skill Drain

[Goose]

 

this card is the actual definition of degenerate.

[Slinky]

Konami needs to hurry up and limit/ban this before we get Qlips over here.

[Toffee.]

This card is typically winmoar anyway....

[Alastar Rainford]

Someone tried to play this against my shaddol deck, i love dropping dragons on S/T :D

[J-Max]

Has the rulings changed or something? Last time I looked at this card, I thought it was Negate all Effects period (without the whole can still be activated thing)

[Sander]

Has the rulings changed or something? Last time I looked at this card, I thought it was Negate all Effects period (without the whole can still be activated thing)

 

Skill Drain could never negate the activation of monster effects in the first place, only the effects. (but their effects can still be activated) was obviously added to clear that up once and for all.

[Wildflame]

Well, it's certainly an issue in Qliphorts, but against them you should be playing all S/T hate that you have available anyways.

[Wizarus]

Skill Drain indeed. To 1 with the rest of the floodgates.

[Neochu-H]

ban this naowww

 

seriously. i've seen enough skill drain decks

[goddamnit names are a pain]

oh my god not this stupid thread again

oh for the love of

 

i was really hoping you guys weren't all saying "put it to 1 NO BAN IT" but I hoped for too much.

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/310268-yep-this-discussion-again-skill-drain/

 

 

This should sum it up.

I actually agree with Chris for once, who knew

[Aerion Brightflame]

I was really hoping you guys weren't all saying "put it to 1 NO BAN IT" but I hoped for too much.

 

Thank you for adding as much to the discussion as the rest of them. Really was a post of the highest quality. 

 

OT:

 

There's a lot of misconceptions around Skill Drain, most of which Chris summed up in the last thread of this, but hey I don't feel like cluttering the thread up with profanity 

a) Just because Quilphort use it to great effect doesn't make it hit worthy in the slightest - Quiphort are extremely broken with of without Skill Drain, and Skill Drain is not a card that should be hit because of that. Instead Tool should just die in hellfire. 

b) It's a card that funnily enough encourages a form of more skillful play, because it's reminding you to be conservative about your removal and saving it for when you get the maximum possible impact from it. Rather than just using it for the hell of it on a blind MST. 

c) By itself it can never dominate a format, because it's a flood-gate that is self invalidiating. The moment it becomes the only viable deck in the format is the exact moment it becomes useless again (Because why would you run it if the format is just full of decks that don't care for it either way. And once everyone catches onto that mindset they realize - Hey we can use other decks again). It only ever has a limited affect on a format assuming said format is something close to heathly. (Which this one isn't). 

d) It doesn't promote thoughtless deck building either - because you have to have the damn frame of mind to build around the card in the first place, which isn't thoughtless. 

 

Chris probably raised other points about it, but I cba to look for the last thread. And really, just a post that might possible promote some kind of intellegent discussion is long overdue in this thread. 

[Slinky]

oh my god not this stupid thread again

oh for the love of

 

i was really hoping you guys weren't all saying "put it to 1 NO BAN IT" but I hoped for too much.

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/310268-yep-this-discussion-again-skill-drain/

 

 

This should sum it up.

I actually agree with Chris for once, who knew

 

The problem with that topic, is that Qlips didnt exist at that point.

 

Skill Drain is like a heavy boost in Qlips, in that it buffs their power and reduces your opponents capabilities to fight back.

 

Especially when you have to choose between a Skill Drain, and a Qliphort Tool to nuke. No matter what you hit, its not going to help your situation until both are gone.

 

tl;dr: Qlips change the entire outlook of this card. Its a deck that is actually extremely consistent, and the card is a massive boost to their strategy.

[SirReal]

Ok Tool is at one. 3 Qliphort Sacrifice, 3 Summoner's Art, and 3 Odd-Eyes Pendulum Dragon still exist to get this thing first turn guaranteed.

 

Even at 1 Tool is a powerful search card and can search Apoqliphort(the trap card) to retrieve it when the opponent inevitably MSTs it. 

 

Putting Tool down to anything other than zero still leaves Skill Drain a stupidly powerful card in the deck. Putting Tool down to zero also completely murders this deck's viability to be competitive. Pendulum Decks need a constant stream of hand advantage in order to function properly, otherwise they're garbage outside of a broken opening hand.

[Wizarus]

Thank you for adding as much to the discussion as the rest of them. Really was a post of the highest quality. 

 

OT:

 

There's a lot of misconceptions around Skill Drain, most of which Chris summed up in the last thread of this, but hey I don't feel like cluttering the thread up with profanity 

a) Just because Quilphort use it to great effect doesn't make it hit worthy in the slightest - Quiphort are extremely broken with of without Skill Drain, and Skill Drain is not a card that should be hit because of that. Instead Tool should just die in hellfire. 

B) It's a card that funnily enough encourages a form of more skillful play, because it's reminding you to be conservative about your removal and saving it for when you get the maximum possible impact from it. Rather than just using it for the hell of it on a blind MST. 

c) By itself it can never dominate a format, because it's a flood-gate that is self invalidiating. The moment it becomes the only viable deck in the format is the exact moment it becomes useless again (Because why would you run it if the format is just full of decks that don't care for it either way. And once everyone catches onto that mindset they realize - Hey we can use other decks again). It only ever has a limited affect on a format assuming said format is something close to heathly. (Which this one isn't). 

d) It doesn't promote thoughtless deck building either - because you have to have the damn frame of mind to build around the card in the first place, which isn't thoughtless. 

 

Chris probably raised other points about it, but I cba to look for the last thread. And really, just a post that might possible promote some kind of intellegent discussion is long overdue in this thread. 

 

 

 

Skill Drain doesn't promote skill at all, unless you call drawing into Mystical Space Typhoon skillful. This is what Skill Drain turns the game into, can my opponent draw into MST if my opponent's deck is hurt by Skill Drain(and most of the time it will be, because why would I be running SKill Drain if this wasn't the case?)

 

Decks that build around Skill Drain are bad. You just add it if your deck doesn't mind the effect. Just like Dragon Rulers and Dark World did. This is the problem with Skill Drain, either it's abused like hell or it's garbage.

 

Skill Drain will never be Tier 0, but if it's used by a Tier 1 deck, it absolutely dictates what can compete during that format. 

[Aerion Brightflame]

Skill Drain doesn't promote skill at all, unless you call drawing into Mystical Space Typhoon skillful. This is what Skill Drain turns the game into, can my opponent draw into MST if my opponent's deck is hurt by Skill Drain(and most of the time it will be, because why would I be running SKill Drain if this wasn't the case?)

 

Decks that build around Skill Drain are bad. You just add it if your deck doesn't mind the effect. Just like Dragon Rulers and Dark World did. This is the problem with Skill Drain, either it's abused like hell or it's garbage.

 

Skill Drain will never be Tier 0, but if it's used by a Tier 1 deck, it absolutely dictates what can compete during that format. 

 

It encourages you to actually conserve your S/T removal instead of using it on a random ass set. Which is promoting skill in a fashion. Of course applying skill to YGO in almost any sense is ludicrous, but whatever. I mean, encouraging less dumb plays and promoting the conservation of resources can somewhat class as encouraging skillful play by YGO's standards. Or hell, acknowledging the fact that the card has some presence in the format and hurts your thus getting more options to deal with it in matches is still technically promoting skill in a manner of speaking.

 

Yet you cite two rather lousy examples - Dragon Rulers were the primary fault of a large portion of there interactions (But not all of them), and you can't blame them for said tech choice in that situations. Since it was still the fact Dragon Rulers were borked that allowed that deck to be competitive through skill drain. And Dark World have been a mediocre to bad deck for a very long time. And again - The fault of said decks previlance wouldn't be because of Skill Drain, but because of another factor of the deck that allows it to play around the card. 

[Wizarus]

It encourages you to actually conserve your S/T removal instead of using it on a random ass set. Which is promoting skill in a fashion. Of course applying skill to YGO in almost any sense is ludicrous, but whatever. I mean, encouraging less dumb plays and promoting the conservation of resources can somewhat class as encouraging skillful play by YGO's standards. Or hell, acknowledging the fact that the card has some presence in the format and hurts your thus getting more options to deal with it in matches is still technically promoting skill in a manner of speaking.

 

Yet you cite two rather lousy examples - Dragon Rulers were the primary fault of a large portion of there interactions (But not all of them), and you can't blame them for said tech choice in that situations. Since it was still the fact Dragon Rulers were borked that allowed that deck to be competitive through skill drain. And Dark World have been a mediocre to bad deck for a very long time. And again - The fault of said decks previlance wouldn't be because of Skill Drain, but because of another factor of the deck that allows it to play around the card. 

 

Most viable S/T Destruction boils down to MST and Monster Effects. That's just how the game was designed, and Skill Drain takes care of 1 option for you. You have MST, you destroy Skill Drain. If you don't, you're behind, if not soft-locked out of the game depending on your hand. If there is any skill here, it doesn't come into play until Skill Drain has been destroyed, and that normally ends up happening by lucksacking Mystical Space Typhoon. Even going by what you said, just the threat of Skill Drain fucking over the majority of the decks in the game puts you ahead of your opponent. Not only are you forced to respect it, your opponent isn't required at all to have the skill you need, since their deck(should) works just fine with or without Skill Drain.

 

 

Sangan isn't the problem, Call of the Haunted is.

Sangan isn't the problem, Crush Card Virus is.

Sangan isn't the problem, Tour Guide is.

 

No one is denying those cards were problematic at their peak, but at some point Sangan had to be suspected for being the terribly designed card that it is. Like I said before, no one builds their deck around Skill Drain anymore, so you lose nothing from Drain getting destroyed while your opponent will usually lose by it staying on the field. As of now Skill Drain is nothing but "X is not allowed to beat this deck" and it's been like this for years. At this point, it's no longer free from blame.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Most viable S/T Destruction boils down to MST and Monster Effects. That's just how the game was designed, and Skill Drain takes care of 1 option for you. You have MST, you destroy Skill Drain. If you don't, you're behind, if not soft-locked out of the game depending on your hand. If there is any skill here, it doesn't come into play until Skill Drain has been destroyed, and that normally ends up happening by lucksacking Mystical Space Typhoon. Even going by what you said, just the threat of Skill Drain f***ing over the majority of the decks in the game puts you ahead of your opponent. Not only are you forced to respect it, your opponent isn't required at all to have the skill you need, since their deck(should) works just fine with or without Skill Drain.

 

 

Sangan isn't the problem, Call of the Haunted is.

Sangan isn't the problem, Crush Card Virus is.

Sangan isn't the problem, Tour Guide is.

 

No one is denying those cards were problematic at their peak, but at some point Sangan had to be suspected for being the terribly designed card that it is. Like I said before, no one builds their deck around Skill Drain anymore, so you lose nothing from Drain getting destroyed while your opponent will usually lose by it staying on the field. As of now Skill Drain is nothing but "X is not allowed to beat this deck" and it's been like this for years. At this point, it's no longer free from blame.

 

 

 

Skill Drain is only really ever good at the start of when a new arch-type can use it without ill-effect. After a while people start taking it out for better stuff. It's just like Kaiser Colosseum when Bujins came out.

 

Could Skill Drain get hit? Sure but to argue that it needs to be banned or limited is silly.

[Yeezus]

@the person who said skill drain decks won't be tier 0:

 

 

You clearly never played in TeleDAD/DAD Return

[Lonk]

Even if they aren't Tier 1 (yet), Yang Zing don't care much for Skill Drain either, especially since Bixi makes the Synchro monster that was Summoned with it flat-out ignore Skill Drain.