Fanservice and Alt Wins! [Aix, what are you doing back here in RC?]

[Aix]

Not here to stay. Just an idea I had that I found interesting.

 

Cannot be targeted by card effects. When your opponent's card(s) is sent to the Graveyard, place 1 Sexy Savior Counter on this card. Once per turn, when your card(s) is sent to the Graveyard, remove 1 Sexy Savior Counter from this card. During your Standby Phase, if this card has 5 or more Sexy Savior Counters, you win the Duel.

 

[J-Max]

Dat Art :3

 

I will be honest, I was like "Bleh, Alt Win card" but I had a closer look and things seem a bit more interesting. I will go into seperate parts of the card as this is how I would like to review now.

 

For starters, having the monster a Level 4 for a Alt Win Card is massively Overpowered... Mostly all the Alt Win Cards require large amounts of Tributes or other alternate ways to get a monster out (Venominaga is a good example of this) This monster is way too easy to get out and to add insult to injury, it cannot be targeted by Card Effects, meaning that your opponent cannot destroy it except by battle.

 

Also having just 1 Counter removed during a Standby Phase... It needs to be more, a LOT more. Do you know how easy it is to get 5 Counters on this monster? With the amount of monster and Spell/Trap roemval these days, the Counters will pile up fast. Sure, it needs to be your Standby Phase to clinch the Duel but it just seems too easy......

 

Here is some potential fixes you might like to consider:

 

Raise the Level: To even consider making this card a Alt Win card, you need to make it harder to Summon.

No Special Summon: At least your opponent has a decent chance to Counter.

Raise the amount of Sexy Counters required: As I mentioned, getting the Counters is all too easy... I would say 10 but maybe thats too much.

Punish the controller more: Instead of just 1 Counter, make it 1 for each of your cards sent. Then it becomes more of a See Saw.

 

I apologize if I seem really harsh but I hope you can consider my ideas.

[Aix]

Dat Art :3

 

I will be honest, I was like "Bleh, Alt Win card" but I had a closer look and things seem a bit more interesting. I will go into seperate parts of the card as this is how I would like to review now.

 

For starters, having the monster a Level 4 for a Alt Win Card is massively Overpowered... Mostly all the Alt Win Cards require large amounts of Tributes or other alternate ways to get a monster out (Venominaga is a good example of this) This monster is way too easy to get out and to add insult to injury, it cannot be targeted by Card Effects, meaning that your opponent cannot destroy it except by battle.

Um... why exactly does this have to be? As long as the Alt Win is sufficiently difficult to achieve, it doesn't matter how difficult it is to start the process and Summon the monster. There's literally no reason for the monster to be difficult to Summon other than to make it harder to achieve the alt win, which can instead be done with increasing the number of Counters required.

 

Also having just 1 Counter removed during a Standby Phase... It needs to be more, a LOT more. Do you know how easy it is to get 5 Counters on this monster? With the amount of monster and Spell/Trap roemval these days, the Counters will pile up fast. Sure, it needs to be your Standby Phase to clinch the Duel but it just seems too easy......

Yes, but how difficult is it to keep this card on the field? Unlike Vennominaga which can pile up ATK fast, this card has decent stats at best and since it can't be targeted, you can't protect it with things like Equip Spells and Safe Zone. If you can send your opponent's cards to the Graveyard 5 different times (this card needs different times, no matter how many cards are sent each time) then you've already destroyed their advantage. On the other hand, your opponent's not going to play blindly and send their cards to the Graveyard, unless they think they can take this monster out. Also, playing some sort of defensive card, for example, Threatening Roar, removes counters from this card. At most, I'd increase the number of Counters by 1 or 2 if it really needs it, then I'll increase the number of Counters that can be removed per turn to maybe 2 or 3, and I may decrease the stats on this card to maybe 1500/1500.

[Oriannis]

have spellbooks just found their new addition? I must say that this feels like it would be an untouchable doom card if introduced into a spellbook mid-game. Since Star hall does not target this card, the ATK bump would make this card more and more difficult to beat. The token effects are somewhat balanced but I feel that it would never get anywhere before it was destroyed. The target immunity helps this card to pull of its effect but unless you hade a star hall with plenty of counters on them, this card would soon fall in battle. Finally any trap protection (or quick effect spell) would remove a token when it was used so this card could not rely on it.

 

Overall its a nice concept and looks good on paper but i would not run it due to its slowness.

[Darj]

I think the card is bad for the game. It only encourages players to build unhealthy or degenerate decks dedicated to triggering this win condition, at the cost of player interaction. For instance, you could build a deck with this, searchers like Summoner Monk, and fill the rest with 1-for-1 removal (MST, Smashing Grounds, etc.) and/or protection cards like Roar, Waboku, etc., so when you eventually get this card, you will have 4+ cards to throw at the opponent, forcing him/her to send cards to the grave even if he/she activates them in response. If you manage to get this, 6 removal cards and there are enough targets, you win the duel.

 

Yes, a deck like that would be awful and far from threatening the metagame, but still remains as an unhealthy deck.

 

That aside, the non-targeting effect looks interesting and allows the monster to bypass cards like Dimensional Prison, but with such average ATK/DEF stats it shouldn't last long on the field. And without dedication the win condition is impractical so I wouldn't recommend running it as a tech while expecting it to get you a victory by chance.

[Trebuchet MS]

I personally feel an acceptable alt-wincon would offer an opponent the possibility of taking it apart, although not all at once via a form of Achilles Heel. Doing so would cause the alt-win to snap into being useless, much like Destiny Leo and Destiny Board. While the once per turn counter self-removal tries to go in that direction, I feel that it is too little, even though you can set it off yourself, accidentally or not. The fact that it all can be shattered with a single successful attack also pulls in the Achilles Heel issue.

 

What I would do is remove the once per turn restriction on the counter removal effect to make it more difficult to defend. To cover the Achilles Heel issue, I'd include an effect that says "If this card would be destroyed by battle, you can remove 1 Sexy Savior Counter from this card instead." It makes the card a little more difficult to surmount, especially when you account the fact that it's universally target-immune, but trying to take it down will contribute to undoing the alt-win without breaking it in one fell swoop.

 

EDIT: ...Mm, wait, revoking the OPT restriction would result in one-for-one removal making no counters at all.

[The15thWing]

Ultimate Side VS Sworns?

 

Can't be targeted by card effects is pretty much unnecessary. This card makes it so your opponent can only play 4 Spell/Traps or send Monsters of the same amount for their turn, and even then, the "Remove Counters" isn't much of a deal, considering your opponent can't really do much in fear of the Win Condition. Not to mention, the counters don't dissappear at the end of the turn or anything; They just sit there. This card laughs at things like Synchro and such, and really isn't healthy for the game at all. I could see it working with a 2-3 Tribute card, and some more stats, but as it stands, this thing isn't very good for the game at all.

 

On the flipside, other posters have already stated pretty great ways you could remedy these flaws, and in my opinion this card could be foreseeable at a harder summon condition. I think 3 Tributes, or maybe 2 LIGHT Tributes, would be nice. Of course the level would have to be raised.

 

Tl;Dr, It's abusable and OP now, but could be better with the correct nerfs.

[Aix]

I personally feel an acceptable alt-wincon would offer an opponent the possibility of taking it apart, although not all at once via a form of Achilles Heel. Doing so would cause the alt-win to snap into being useless, much like Destiny Leo and Destiny Board. While the once per turn counter self-removal tries to go in that direction, I feel that it is too little, even though you can set it off yourself, accidentally or not. The fact that it all can be shattered with a single successful attack also pulls in the Achilles Heel issue.

 

What I would do is remove the once per turn restriction on the counter removal effect to make it more difficult to defend. To cover the Achilles Heel issue, I'd include an effect that says "If this card would be destroyed by battle, you can remove 1 Sexy Savior Counter from this card instead." It makes the card a little more difficult to surmount, especially when you account the fact that it's universally target-immune, but trying to take it down will contribute to undoing the alt-win without breaking it in one fell swoop.

 

EDIT: ...Mm, wait, revoking the OPT restriction would result in one-for-one removal making no counters at all.

Seems like a good idea to raise the OTP restriction to 3 then, to make the one for one removal almost useless. As for battle protection, I suppose I'll make the max counters on this card 5, and then do that, but have it remove 2 counters or be once per turn. Though ultimately, the best idea for this card would be to be like SoCuteBoss and have it also do something else... hm.

 

Ultimate Side VS Sworns?

 

Can't be targeted by card effects is pretty much unnecessary. This card makes it so your opponent can only play 4 Spell/Traps or send Monsters of the same amount for their turn, and even then, the "Remove Counters" isn't much of a deal, considering your opponent can't really do much in fear of the Win Condition. Not to mention, the counters don't dissappear at the end of the turn or anything; They just sit there. This card laughs at things like Synchro and such, and really isn't healthy for the game at all. I could see it working with a 2-3 Tribute card, and some more stats, but as it stands, this thing isn't very good for the game at all.

 

On the flipside, other posters have already stated pretty great ways you could remedy these flaws, and in my opinion this card could be foreseeable at a harder summon condition. I think 3 Tributes, or maybe 2 LIGHT Tributes, would be nice. Of course the level would have to be raised.

 

Tl;Dr, It's abusable and OP now, but could be better with the correct nerfs.

I feel like you think your opponent's stupid and will play stupidly into this. If they do, it's their fault. Obviously, they will think of how to safely remove this card.

[The15thWing]

 

I feel like you think your opponent's stupid and will play stupidly into this. If they do, it's their fault. Obviously, they will think of how to safely remove this card.

And I feel like you think that's going to be easy. Using your Backrow only removes 1 counter max, and it doesn't help that the card itself is untargetable. Therefore, the only ways to get rid of this card are non-targeting removal, which in turn, is probably going to have top be a Spell/Trap, due to Backrow easily stopping opponent's cards. Not to mention that with this card, failed attempts to stop it, most likely a negated Spell/Trap are going to the Grave, therefore adding another counter to it. And all that, coupled with the fact this card can be summoned so easily back to the field. I don't think my opponent is going to be stupid, I think this card is too harsh.

[Aix]

And I feel like you think that's going to be easy. Using your Backrow only removes 1 counter max, and it doesn't help that the card itself is untargetable. Therefore, the only ways to get rid of this card are non-targeting removal, which in turn, is probably going to have top be a Spell/Trap, due to Backrow easily stopping opponent's cards. Not to mention that with this card, failed attempts to stop it, most likely a negated Spell/Trap are going to the Grave, therefore adding another counter to it. And all that, coupled with the fact this card can be summoned so easily back to the field. I don't think my opponent is going to be stupid, I think this card is too harsh.

Or you can attack it.

[The15thWing]

Or you can attack it.

And get backrow'd.

[Aix]

And get backrow'd.

If they have so much backrow, then they probably haven't sent the 5 cards to the Graveyard. Sending 5 cards to the Graveyard on your own isn't as easy as you think.

[The15thWing]

If they have so much backrow, then they probably haven't sent the 5 cards to the Graveyard. Sending 5 cards to the Graveyard on your own isn't as easy as you think.

You clearly can't understand the problem.

For 1 Normal Summon, you place a Win Condition-An easy condition to fufill, on the board. An untargetable one, at that.

You cannot justify this thing. And with Backrow, it still only loses one counter. For this thing to be balanced, it either moves to a Higher Level, or it just isn't plausible. And if you can't understand that, I have no idea why I'm talking to you.

[Darj]

If you attack and get "backrowed", the monster will lose a Counter, which means extra time for you to wait until you draw or get another answer to the card; I think that's fair. Really, the only thing this card would do is force the opponent to play conservatively.

 

On a seond thought, summoning this card once you have an established board (backed up by boss monsters, etc.) would put serious pressure on the opponent. However, at that point this card becomes more of a win-more.

 

Though ultimately, the best idea for this card would be to be like SoCuteBoss and have it also do something else... hm.

 

Don't you mean Dorklord? I actually thought on that monster when I read the card. And I agree: you can make her useful through other effects, and leave the win condition as a "bonus" that may be occasionally fulfilled. It already has the non-targeting effect so you could work with that.

[Aix]

You clearly can't understand the problem.

For 1 Normal Summon, you place a Win Condition-An easy condition to fufill, on the board. An untargetable one, at that.

You cannot justify this thing. And with Backrow, it still only loses one counter. For this thing to be balanced, it either moves to a Higher Level, or it just isn't plausible. And if you can't understand that, I have no idea why I'm talking to you.

To see how it may work in practice, let's look at how it compares to a real "easy-to-fulfil" win-con - Final Countdown. For Final Countdown, you have to survive 10 of your opponent's turns. You only need 1 card to survive each turn, and Yugioh happens to have a serious overabundance of stall cards that let you go one turn untouched: Waboku, One Day of Peace, Threatening Roar, Battle Fader, Swift Scarecrow, Thunder of Ruler, etc. By no stretch of the imagination is Final Countdown easy to pull off. Seems easy on paper, but you're not going to be remotely consistently be able to do what you want.

[The15thWing]

To see how it may work in practice, let's look at how it compares to a real "easy-to-fulfil" win-con - Final Countdown. For Final Countdown, you have to survive 10 of your opponent's turns. You only need 1 card to survive each turn, and Yugioh happens to have a serious overabundance of stall cards that let you go one turn untouched: Waboku, One Day of Peace, Threatening Roar, Battle Fader, Swift Scarecrow, Thunder of Ruler, etc. By no stretch of the imagination is Final Countdown easy to pull off. Seems easy on paper, but you're not going to be remotely consistently be able to do what you want.

Oh my dear god this is actually kinda funny.

Alright, you're justifying this card, by saying another Win Condition, a Limited, Costly, Win Condition, is worse?

[Aix]

Oh my dear god this is actually kinda funny.

Alright, you're justifying this card, by saying another Win Condition, a Limited, Costly, Win Condition, is worse?

Oh, I forgot it's Limited now, I've tried it before it was Limited. It was not easy to pull off despite the overabundance of draw cards and stall cards out there. The 5 cards + protection is not nearly as easy as you are making it out to be, as Voltex Curse has said above me, this card merely makes your opponent play more conservatively.

[The15thWing]

Oh, I forgot it's Limited now, I've tried it before it was Limited. It was not easy to pull off despite the overabundance of draw cards and stall cards out there. The 5 cards + protection is not nearly as easy as you are making it out to be, as Voltex Curse has said above me, it merely makes your opponent play more conservatively.

...

Alright, I'm done here.

This is clearly going nowhere.

[Aix]

...

Alright, I'm done here.

This is clearly going nowhere.

Your argument is that the win-con is too easy, I'm telling you it's not.