Post your best, well designed card

[Sunn O)))]

 

3 DARK monsters
Must be Fusion Summoned and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways When this card is Fusion Summoned: Target 1 card on the field; banish it. During either player's turn: You can banish 5 DARK monsters from your Graveyard; this card is unaffected by other card effects until the end of this turn.

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/322194-demonic-dragon-darkness-overlord/

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I will point out, due to Black's post. That obviously, there are very few people who truly have what everyone would consider "well designed" cards.

That being said, I like the idea of a place where the best designed cards are placed. But they should have to be approved, by more than one person.

Because, seeing the best designs the place has to offer will at least give some idea of how to design their cards, and will give people a goal of "I want to make a better card than the rest."

 

Basically, they don't have to be really well designed, but they have to be the best designs currently. From what I've heard this was tried before, and failed.

I think it deserves another chance, but before it's put into play there needs to be discussion between both members and mods as to how to regulate, and how to choose what goes in and what doesn't.

[Elijah~]

[spoiler=Lore]Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. Must be Special Summoned (from your Hand) by banishing 1 DARK and 1 LIGHT monster from your Graveyard. Once per turn, you can pay 500 Life points to activate 1 of these effects:
*Increase your ATK by 500 until the end of the Damage Step
*If this card attacks a Defense Position monster; inflict piercing battle damage to your opponent.
(I apologize if this card is not as balanced as I thought it would be. Haven't made a card in a while)
[/spoiler]
Proof of Review Can be Found Here:http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/21002-quantum-soldier-luna/
Comment: It may be a tad underplayed but I personally think it is still good.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Well, that's a good thing, because looking through this. Rule 1 seems to have been very barely acknowledged. Many of these from what I can tell have been reviewed positively enough to warrant being in a thread for well-designed cards.

Didn't know the second rule was posted later, but right, that also hasn't been followed well.

Rule 3 has been fine, sorta, except for one post.

And even rule 7 has been ignored a couple times.

 

This is going to take a LOT of Moderation. Is there any way to have posts have to wait for approval to be posted? Because I have a feeling there will be a lot of new members posting a card they got one decent review on, usually from another new member.

 

Unless we change the settings in this section to moderate content before posting, that's about it.

In the meantime, just report posts that are bad and we'll deal with them accordingly.

 

I will point out, due to Black's post. That obviously, there are very few people who truly have what everyone would consider "well designed" cards.

That being said, I like the idea of a place where the best designed cards are placed. But they should have to be approved, by more than one person.

Because, seeing the best designs the place has to offer will at least give some idea of how to design their cards, and will give people a goal of "I want to make a better card than the rest."

 

Basically, they don't have to be really well designed, but they have to be the best designs currently. From what I've heard this was tried before, and failed.

I think it deserves another chance, but before it's put into play there needs to be discussion between both members and mods as to how to regulate, and how to choose what goes in and what doesn't.

That's true; the standards for what constitutes a good card varies among members. What may be good to you may not be so in another member's eyes.

As noted, a lot of members in this thread don't play competitively or keep track of new cards that've come up, so you can't expect them to design cards for a competitive environment (which is the vibe that appears to resonate through here and the entirety of RC).

 

That being said, we could have .Saber look around at some of the stuff in here; given he's also in charge of the section and can be trusted to give a fair analysis on stuff here in respect to existing things in TCG. Will need to discuss this with him over PM.

 

For notes on my stuff, wasn't designed to be an improvement over 57 (and while the doubling in Numbers might come up, that wasn't the intent at all). More or less, that was for field control based on a character in an offline fanfic who utilizes such a strategy. Also keep in mind that came from November 2013 (long before promotion) and most likely, in a different metagame than what we have currently (I don't pay attention to metagames lately b/c of other commitments, so I may be wrong about this).

 

But yes, things need to be sorted out so they don't end up like the old version; otherwise it'll be a repeat.

[Blake]

TBF the only active CC Mod I'd trust with the job is Saber =x

 

You don't have to be a competitive player to design cards well. And a card can be badly designed without impacting the metagame. Using competitiveness as a reason for card design being subjective doesn't even make sense.

 

Design does evolve somewhat. At one time, Royal Oppression was fine, I believe. Now it's horrendous.

 

Royal Decree has always been terrible design, though. So despite evolving, it is not always going to change.

 

Then there's your card- The issue isn't the metagame.

 

The issue is that the flavor is terrible (114...? Numbers shouldn't be expanded on in any ways as the flavor is 100 of them + 7 Don Thousand Numbers. No more, no less. Yuma makes one at the end to showcase a major spoiler, but that's not even a "true" Number.)

 

The design is dubious at best, using an extremely powerful form of removal for being merely summoned. And this is before the Field Control and Typing are factored in. Field Control isn't bad, but it just feels, in design, like a "hurrhurr I can do 57 better" type of design. Whether intended to be so or not, it almost completely overshadows an existing card, and this is not good design. It even has a third effect to 57's two effects.

 

The typing allows it to be summoned off of Bujincarnation when you have another Bujin to plop down. This means a better Miracle Fusion-esque card can be used to make this with only 2 cards, making the banish even less costly.

 

To  go further into this, let's take this guy into account:

3 Level 4 Monsters

While this card has Xyz Material, your opponent cannot activate cards or effects when you Normal or Special Summon a monster(s). Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card, then target 1 card on the field; destroy it. If this card is sent from the field to the Graveyard: You can Special Summon 1 "tellarknight" monster from your hand or Deck.

 

This is not a well designed card. However, outside of its deck, it's good but not overwhelming. Why? Because of the fact that destruction is a really weak form of removal. It has the capability in spades, but it can backfire a lot of times if you're not careful, and plenty of counters exist to it because it both targets AND destroys.

 

Yours doesn't destroy, which makes it a safer removal in exchange for only one use... But that's not fair design. Banishing removes a card from the majority of the game, doesn't set off most relevant cards that respond to a form of death (anywhere, casually or otherwise), and makes it much harder to not be a big tempo swing.

 

That one shot is far more powerful than Delteros' three shots, outside of a vacuum. And Delteros isn't even guaranteed 3 whole shots. Think about Caius; It's a tribute monster that still sees play in decks like Shaddoll and sometimes Burning Abyss (yeah, this is a metagame point, but this is just to demonstrate Banishing's power) because it murders the decks you play it against.

 

Being a casual player does not excuse poor design, nor does it inherently foster it. Hell, I'm a casual player. I follow the metagame, but Shaddolls are the only truly meta deck I've ever really played, and I don't go to events and such. I still understand the gamestate and strive to understand design, despite that. The two are not linked in actuality.

 

Design is all about knowledge and understanding, not competitiveness.

 

Also I don't get this forum's obsession with Banishing. It's an extremely powerful mechanic, and you all just want to bite right in. Banishing is difficult to execute and shouldnt be done until you have a good idea of what you're doing, if ever.

[Darj]

Well, that's a good thing, because looking through this. Rule 1 seems to have been very barely acknowledged. Many of these from what I can tell have been reviewed positively enough to warrant being in a thread for well-designed cards.
Didn't know the second rule was posted later, but right, that also hasn't been followed well.
Rule 3 has been fine, sorta, except for one post.
And even rule 7 has been ignored a couple times.
 
This is going to take a LOT of Moderation. Is there any way to have posts have to wait for approval to be posted? Because I have a feeling there will be a lot of new members posting a card they got one decent review on, usually from another new member.

 
Exactly. Those are the problems I have stumbpled upon so far.
1.Users not following the rules. I can load the thread with 100+ rules and be more strict, but if the users ignore them then it is pointless.
2. Cards that have been indeed reviewed, but by inexperienced users who dropped bad and/or misleading reviews.
 

Isn't this literally Hall of Fame #2? You know, the one where the moderation team got overwhelmed by a wave of not really worthy nominations and thus everyone stopped giving a s***? Except, this one seems to have even lower standards. /ok

I know what happened to the last Hall of Fame, and precisely to avoid that same fate, my initial approach with this thread was to establish rules that users would follow when posting their cards, instead of relying on a team that could stop caring about the thread at any given time. That's why the standards are lower. But as you can see, it is not working.
 
If you don't like how things are going so far, how about throwing a suggestion or 2 to improve the thread?
 

I will point out, due to Black's post. That obviously, there are very few people who truly have what everyone would consider "well designed" cards.
That being said, I like the idea of a place where the best designed cards are placed. But they should have to be approved, by more than one person.
Because, seeing the best designs the place has to offer will at least give some idea of how to design their cards, and will give people a goal of "I want to make a better card than the rest."
 
Basically, they don't have to be really well designed, but they have to be the best designs currently. From what I've heard this was tried before, and failed.
I think it deserves another chance, but before it's put into play there needs to be discussion between both members and mods as to how to regulate, and how to choose what goes in and what doesn't.

 
Excellent point. How can we ask for perfectly designed cards when only around 5% or less of YCM knows what that is?
Actually, I realized it was a mistake to ask for well-designed cards in the first place, because of the above.

[Kyng]

Food for thought: this thread isn't a Hall of Fame revamp, but rather a place where a member's standard is held and later improved upon?

 

This place isn't a place to say "luk i am betr dan konami" but rather "this is my best piece of work as of yet, so let's try do better than that so I can keep improving."

 

amirightorwrong

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I'm assuming that was Voltex's intention when he designed this thread: Post the best card that you've made so far; then when you make a better designed card, replace them (or take cues from the veteran members making stuff).

 

As noted earlier, things will need to watched in here carefully to make sure cards are of "acceptable" quality (We don't expect them to be absolutely perfect, but just make sure you put a good amount of work/thought in designing the card so it doesn't come off as broken). While I do appreciate the effort members are making in trying to promote better cardmaking [this was on our list of CC improvements], but things need to kept in order so this serves its intended purpose.

 

If things start to flop + resembles the old Hall of Fame threads (which I was probably gone during), then this might get unstickied and locked. Saber did write a new guide for making cards [and Toyo's one is still in effect, but it's more or less an RC-survival guide); hopefully members give them a read + the quality of stuff in here goes up somewhat. [I should give the former thread a thorough reading myself, for my own sake]

[Blake]

Food for thought: this thread isn't a Hall of Fame revamp, but rather a place where a member's standard is held and later improved upon?
 
This place isn't a place to say "luk i am betr dan konami" but rather "this is my best piece of work as of yet, so let's try do better than that so I can keep improving."
 
amirightorwrong

I'm assuming that was Voltex's intention when he designed this thread: Post the best card that you've made so far; then when you make a better designed card, replace them (or take cues from the veteran members making stuff).
 
As noted earlier, things will need to watched in here carefully to make sure cards are of "acceptable" quality (We don't expect them to be absolutely perfect, but just make sure you put a good amount of work/thought in designing the card so it doesn't come off as broken). While I do appreciate the effort members are making in trying to promote better cardmaking [this was on our list of CC improvements], but things need to kept in order so this serves its intended purpose.
 
If things start to flop + resembles the old Hall of Fame threads (which I was probably gone during), then this might get unstickied and locked. Saber did write a new guide for making cards [and Toyo's one is still in effect, but it's more or less an RC-survival guide); hopefully members give them a read + the quality of stuff in here goes up somewhat. [I should give the former thread a thorough reading myself, for my own sake]

Let's look at this like we would the cards that are to be placed here:

Design intent means nothing. It doesn't matter that this thread was [i]intended[/i] to be a "post your best and work up". As-is, it's a worse hall of fame because of its [i]applications[/i]. So, Kyng, you are both right AND wrong. You are right about the intent, not the application.

It already is a flop that resembles hall of fame threads.

And "absolutely perfect" isn't even what's expected. Almost nothing in this thread is even respectable. Hell, I'll touch on them.

http://i.imgur.com/Y11I6hY.jpg

This isn't the worst, but it's also completely inferior to Mirror Force and Dimensional Prison. It doesn't do what you want consistently enough, it's too restricted, and it's not a wonderful payoff overall because of such. This falls into that "not absolutely perfect", and I'm pretty sure it's one of two. But it's not even close to well designed because it falls into totally inferior designed.

http://i.imgur.com/qAUpaK6.jpg

Yay -1s that don't do anything but cost you more and more! I mean, sure, it can lock out a summon... so can Vanity's Emptiness, or Stygian Dirge, or Mischief of the Yokai. This isn't good design because, again, totally inferior design. RC is often as full of this as bad design in the way too strong department.

http://i.imgur.com/S6kPJ1a.jpg

This is absurd. It's a quickplay that stops activation (meaning continuous S/T that weren't already face-up die) and draws 1. Why do you deserve to be rewarded for simply being targeted by the opponent while holding this? We have Counter Traps that do this sorta thing without the draw, and while they are bad, a card that helps you dodge Effect Veiler without losing advantage and while thinning your deck is terrible design.

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/uploads/monthly_08_2014/post-768787-0-73246400-1409424532.jpg

Useless nood design. Not much else to say, it's inferior to a lot of other cards and garners you no advantage bar a "free" 2800 that requires setup and can buff itself if it must. And it dies to LIGHT. Yeah. And from the wording, the 1000 ATK drop is permanent.

http://i.imgur.com/E0IxywJ.jpg

This is senet design. Senet design is generally bad because it makes a needlessly strict gamestate. Then it adds itself to its opp's hand. In a vacuum this is fine, but in IRL terms this is dangerous for much the same reason cards like Exchange are; Thievery. Granted, this has nothing to do with design, so I digress.

The thing is though, it rewards you for not going first and then going wild with your board. And creates a needless gamestate where you have to scatter your cards to not get shot. I don't think it's a GOOD card, but it's not well designed. It just overcomplicates the gamestate.

http://i.imgur.com/cvG5PYi.jpg

This screams hand loop or equivalent. Which means it could assist in Deck Out kills, which are generally as bad as alt win cons in YGO, design-wise. MST bait that forces your opponent to lose advantage for playing the game if they can't drop everything, or kills you because you basically super Maxx "C"d yourself. And if you play smart and can't OTK, you can just reduce them to minimal advantage and move on. It's wonky, dangerous design at best.

I already covered 114.

http://i.imgur.com/xQSnbxO.jpg

This is one of those "not quite perfect" designs... But it still suffers from all of Fusion's issues. It's either unwieldy as hell and not worth summoning or has a method of paying it back/making it cheap that's unfair. This is the former. It is even overcosted later. Unwieldy as all hell, and the two effects teeter between too good (First one) and too overcosted (latter) considering the effort. Banishing is still a really, really dangerous mechanic, and using it in-and-of itself as a payoff for a cost is not well designed. In cases like this, it's throwing good money after bad. It's big, it banishes a card... But its latter effect costs too much and it doesn't restore advantage it just reduces it all over the gamestate. A -1 to the opponent is not as powerful as a +1 to you. Why do you think even R4 self-plusses rarely? But in a case like this, it's superior design to a winmoar banish shot if done RIGHT.

http://i.imgur.com/12fxWz9.jpg

Worse BLS/Chaos Sorcerer... Nothing else to say. It wouldn't be played because it's worse than 3 other legal Chaos Monsters, not to mention further themed ones in Lightpulsar/Darkflare. It just is not worth it or playable, beyond being a Level 7. Not really reason enough.

I apologize for "reviewing", but the point had to be made.

I'm actually bothered that you mentioned "so that it's not broken" when making an unplayable card is just as bad, just not as obviously heinous. Then there's the fat that broken is a word that should almost never come up in design, because it doesn't cover good or bad design. There can be a horribly designed card that's neither broken nor weak, and how would that be handled?

Broken is not a word that has a place in design.

It's intended purpose is lost already, and from the statement about "not being broken" just shows that enforcing it is dead in the water.

[Darj]

Don't worry about the reviews; it's not like it is a big deal after all. Actually, thank you for the reviews, as they help everyone to improve and they should be always welcomed.

 

Anyways, to be honest, what I expected from this thread was:

A. See everyone's best card, whether they were actually well designed or perhaps underpowered, but not broken; I Just wanted to get an idea of the card quality from the average card maker.

B. See if those bad card makers improved over time and changed their cards with better ones (as Kyng and Sakura pointed out). That's why I included a rule that allowed users to update their cards.

C. Users actually following the rules and refraining from posting if they didn't have any well designed card.

D. Catch the attention of the good cards makers remaining in YCM so they post their cards for everyone to see the best from the best, and get an idea of what we should be doing.

 

I didn't bother with asking for "perfect cards" or setting the standards too high for the following reasons:

E. Encouraging all users, with different card-making skill levels (bad, average, good, etc.), to post their cards.

F. Users who think their cards are the best thing ever would post their cards anyways (as it happened during the previous Hall of Fame).

 

Yes, I did expect a few bad cards being posted, but I foolishly hoped that good cards (posted by users who either are good or followed the rules) would overshadow them.

Unfortunately, C. and D. didn't happen. Also I didn't consider users posting cards that were effectively reviewed, but by inexperienced users who dropped bad and/or misleading reviews.

 

At this point, I don't have high hopes for this thread anymore. As I mentioned before, asking for well designed cards was a mistake, since about 95% of YCM doesn't even know what "card design" means. And I think I should have posted this in General, Misc. or somewhere else instead, where users wouldn't hold their standards too high and the rules can be more relaxed.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

So do you want me to lock this, Voltex (assuming that you feel that the intent backfired)?

[Darj]

Well, unpin it for the time being; if the thread shall die, so be it. But I can see it is not working, and I doubt it will work anytime soon. I might try it again in General or Misc. (at the risk of users taking it as joke and posting funny or overpowered cards on purpose).

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

That much, I can do.

Probably should've posted that Flower Valkyria card instead of 114 (or even 110, since I remember you reviewed it quite well at the time).

 

Might as well change my card now, if that does any good. 

[Peridank]

So I just want to make sure, if we got bad reviews and fixed them with the suggestions... we can post? (No, I am not posting Aku)

[Radiant F.U.R.Y.™]

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/322450-number-117-infinitaur-long-but-hopefully-balanced-effect-need-cnc/&sa=U&ei=c7kPVMfMF8TQiwKE4YGYBw&ved=0CAYQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNFUq_Dj0rebe141zxZ7RbIgWp-ciQ

[spoiler=Effect]

4 or 5 Level 4 Monsters

When Special Summoned, other cards and effects cannot be activated. When this card is Xyz Summoned: Detach 1 Xyz Material from it. This card's effects cannot be negated by your opponent's Trap effects. Each time an Xyz Material(s) is detached from this card, it gains 1300 ATK and DEF for each Xyz Material detached. While this card has 2 or more Xyz Materials, it is unaffected by your opponent's cards effects. Your opponent cannot activate Quick-Play Spell effects, Trap effects, or Quick Effects during either player's Battle Phase. During your Main Phase: You can attach 1 Level 4 monster you control to this card as a face-up Xyz Material, and if you do, inflict 1300 damage to your opponent. This card cannot attack during the turn you activate this effect. This effect can only be used once while this card is face-up on the field. When this card is sent to the Graveyard: Banish, from your Graveyard, 1 monster that was used as an Xyz Material for the Xyz Summon of a "Number 117: Infinitaur" and was detached from it, and if you do, Special Summon this card from your Graveyard, and if you do that, attach all cards in your Graveyard, that were used as Xyz Materials for the Xyz Summon of a "Number 117: Infinitaur" and were detached from it, to this card as face-up Xyz Materials, then detach 1 Xyz Material from it. During each player's Standby Phase: Detach 1 Xyz Material from this card or destroy 1 card you control.[/spoiler]

[Fat Cat Ultim]

This is the best reviewed card I made.Looks like I'm gifted at making Synchros after all.Lol

 

Proof : http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/322582-my-first-synchro-rylarth-the-dark-one/

 

Card & Lore :

 

 

LORE :

1 Tuner + 1 DARK Level 5 Monster
This card's Synchro Summon cannot be negated.  During the turn this card was Synchro Summoned, it cannot be targeted by card effects.  Once per turn: You can Banish 2 cards from your Graveyard; draw 2 cards.  If this card would be sent to the Graveyard, banish it instead.

[skumar54]

any thoughts

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

If you've read the rules of this thread properly, you need to provide a link to the thread you originally posted this in.

That's to confirm that people actually looked at/reviewed it.