7-ink Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 [spoiler='Effect']If your opponent controls a monster and you control no monsters: Special Summon 1 monster from your hand, whose original Level is 10 or lower and cannot be Normal Summoned/Set, ignoring its Summoning conditions. It is unaffected by your other card effects (except its own), but it is shuffled into the Deck during your opponent's next End Phase, also for the rest of this turn, you cannot Normal Summon/Set or Special Summon other monsters and your opponent takes no further damage.[/spoiler] [spoiler='Other Cards'] Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. Must first be Special Summoned with "Rise of the Snake Deity" and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways except by its own effect. This card gains 500 ATK for each Reptile-Type monster in your Graveyard. This card cannot be targeted by, and is unaffected by, Spell/Trap effects and other Effect Monsters' effects. When this card is destroyed by battle and sent to the Graveyard: You can banish 1 other Reptile-Type monster from your Graveyard; Special Summon this card. When this card inflicts Battle Damage to your opponent: Place 1 Hyper-Venom Counter on it. When 3 Hyper-Venom Counters are on this card, you win the Duel. This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except with its own effect or with "Assault Mode Activate". You can Tribute this card to negate the activation of a Spell Card, Trap Card, or Effect Monster's effect, and destroy that card. If you negate an effect this way, you can Special Summon this card from your Graveyard during the End Phase. When this card on the field is destroyed, you can Special Summon 1 "Stardust Dragon" from your Graveyard. Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set. Must be Special Summoned by its own effect, and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways. If a "Guardian Eatos" is destroyed by battle or by card effect and sent to your Graveyard: You can Special Summon this card from your hand. When this card is Special Summoned: You can equip 1 "Reaper Scythe - Dreadscythe" from your Deck to this card. You cannot Normal or Special Summon monsters (but you can Normal Set). When this card is sent from the field to the Graveyard: Send 1 card from your hand to the Graveyard, and if you do, Special Summon this card from the Graveyard.[/spoiler] OK, I know what a Nomi monster is. Monster that can only be special summon usually by some sort of ways. Generally the issue is with Nomi monster that can summon themselves by effect, not the summoning procedure. Talking about big game changer like "Vennominaga, Deity of the Poisonous Snakes" and "Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode" who are stated to be able to summon themselves as a proper way. There are many discussion that no, they can't do that or that they can. Normally Semi/Nomi are these (both kind are alike anyway): "Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set" "Must first be Special Summoned by (method)" or "Cannot be Normal Summoned/Set" "Must be Special Summoned by (method), and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways" This is where people get the Nomi monster cannot be summon from the grave unless properly summoned. This would be true if "Vennominaga, Deity of the Poisonous Snakes" and "Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode" only has one way to summon it. Both can be summon if the condition is met. "Assault Revival" was created to summon "/Assault Mode" monster and prevent the use of their effect, further it prevent "Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode" from being tributed (of course it must properly be summon, and Assault Mode Activate is usually the way to go, unless "Bolt from the Blue" is use and tribute, negate, destroy, summon, happens). So for the same reason if "Vennominaga, Deity of the Poisonous Snakes" is destroyed by battle and a reptile is in the grave, it will be able to be revive. Nothing was an issue until "Bolt from the Blue" came out. The main issue was that Nomi monster cannot be summon from the grave if not properly summoned, even if a card ignore the Summoning conditions. This had people disputing the way "Bolt from the Blue" works. Will "Bolt from the Blue" had Nomi monster that has another proper way of summoning work, if its in the field by its effect and said card is not properly summon? No issue with "Meklord" who do with the hand or "Malefic Truth Dragon" who do it with both hand and grave. As long as the condition to summon "Meklord" or "Malefic Truth Dragon" is met they can be summoned. "Guardian Dreadscythe" is another card that if sent to the grave, can be summon onto the field, easy if "Inzektor Exa-Beetle" is use. So if by all means if the condition is right to all three, "Vennominaga, Deity of the Poisonous Snakes", "Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode", and "Guardian Dreadscythe" should be able to be summon, right? Was that all, no, the last issue is with "Vennominaga, Deity of the Poisonous Snakes" alone as it unaffected by so many thing. I beleive this issue comes in what came first. To summon her all effect of "Bolt from the Blue" must go the the summoned monster, like that of a token that can't be destroyed by battle even though token are always treated as normal monster or that of the water yang zing monster and skill drain (an effect of to date can't be negated). "Bolt from the Blue", is this a evolution card that allow old cards to go against the newer ones? Personally I think yes. Before "Bolt from the Blue" there were only a few card that summon monster, so issue was cause. The main issue at the moment is how it works. I for one do think it does allow them to be summon once they're on the field, though possible don't want to summon them from the grave on the same turn "Bolt from the Blue" was use, since you cannot special summon that turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Vennominaga is still Bolt from the Blue's best target because she doesn't return to the Deck at the End Phase (if I am understanding the Vennominaga vs. Bolt from the Blue situation right). If not, then Bolt from the Blue is pretty bad with no visible qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 They actually made a ruling for Stardust Assault. Assault will not be able to revive itself for whatever reason. If you activate the effect of "Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode" Special Summoned by the effect of "Bolt from the Blue", the "If you negate an effect this way, you can Special Summon this card from your Graveyardduring the End Phase" effect cannot be used, since it needs to be Special Summoned by the effect of "Assault Mode Activate" to use the effect.[9] This ruling is bullshit because the text of Stardust clearly states that it cannot be special summoned except by Assault Mode OR ITS OWN EFFECT. So where are they getting that it needs to be special summoned by assault mode to bypass a summon condition that is clearly written on the card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 They actually made a ruling for Stardust Assault. Assault will not be able to revive itself for whatever reason. If you activate the effect of "Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode" Special Summoned by the effect of "Bolt from the Blue", the "If you negate an effect this way, you can Special Summon this card from your Graveyardduring the End Phase" effect cannot be used, since it needs to be Special Summoned by the effect of "Assault Mode Activate" to use the effect.[9] This ruling is bullshit because the text of Stardust clearly states that it cannot be special summoned except by Assault Mode OR ITS OWN EFFECT. So where are they getting that it needs to be special summoned by assault mode to bypass a summon condition that is clearly written on the card? the ruling is adding the improper summon condition, like with how stardust can't self revive from that starlight road card activation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
玄魔の王 Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 the ruling is adding the improper summon condition, like with how stardust can't self revive from that starlight road card activation Honestly, I'm more inclined to think it's a BKSS ruling to prevent SAM abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Why were people on FB saying you can't use Star Blast or w/e it's called and this to SS the Creator God? Also that Assault mode ruling is bullshit but Konami making sense would also be unthinkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Why were people on FB saying you can't use Star Blast or w/e it's called and this to SS the Creator God? Also that Assault mode ruling is bullshit but Konami making sense would also be unthinkable. Bolt says "original Level", and Summons 10 or lower. Horakthy's original Level is 12. Really, I'm not surprised by the ruling. Vennominaga and SD/AM are unable to be Special Summoned except by their Summon Condition or their own effect. Their effect is not considered properly Summoning them, it's just a means to Special Summon them after they've been properly Summoned. Ignoring Summoning Conditions is not properly Summoning them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kirk Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Bolt says "original Level", and Summons 10 or lower. Horakthy's original Level is 12. Really, I'm not surprised by the ruling. Vennominaga and SD/AM are unable to be Special Summoned except by their Summon Condition or their own effect. Their effect is not considered properly Summoning them, it's just a means to Special Summon them after they've been properly Summoned. Ignoring Summoning Conditions is not properly Summoning them. If that were the case, wouldn't it mean that if they died after self ressurecting, they wouldn't be considered properly SSed, and therefor not be able to be ressurected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 If that were the case, wouldn't it mean that if they died after self ressurecting, they wouldn't be considered properly SSed, and therefor not be able to be ressurected? No, because if Stardust dies after self-resurrecting (after being properly Synchro Summoned), you can still revive it again. Once its proper Summoning Condition has been fulfilled, it can still be SSed by appropriate methods so long as it doesn't return to the hand or Deck. The difference with Stardust and SD/AM is that Stardust just needs to be Synchro Summoned once, then it can be resurrected with its effect, or Monster Reborn, etc. Assault Mode needs to be Summoned by Assault Mode Activate, after which point ONLY its own effect can Special Summon it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-ink Posted December 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Personally I think the whole thing is bulls***. Konami should make reprint of old cards and only one website for the official rule for what ever rules your using (OGC or TCG), also the most current wording for each card, as player often use old but rare card. A card's wording would change one day but a reprint hasn't been release. It helps a lot to know that, that card wording changed. I don't even know where to look for the most accurate rule. A reprint of wording: "Must be Special Summoned with "Rise of the Snake Deity" and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways except by its own effect when it was previously Special Summoned with "Rise of the Snake Deity"." "This card cannot be Special Summoned except with "Assault Mode Activate" or its own effect when it was previously Special Summoned with "Assault Mode Activate"." would save so much disputing. "This card cannot be Special Summoned except with its own effect or with "Assault Mode Activate". Seriously they need to not put "with its own effect" in front of "with "Assault Mode Activate", it makes "with its own effect" look more important. Since I'm sure we all know what happen to Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, Pendulum monster. All which are rule by a simply game mechanic. Its the main deck effect monster that is more of the issue. I believe "Kagetokage" was a issue too. "Kagetokage" cannot be "Monster Reborn" unless properly summon. Its not even restricted that it must be summon when you normal summon a level 4 monster. "Rare Metal Dragon" is a assho** of one too. To date "Kagetokage" shouldn't count as a special summon only monster, as all has a summoning procedure or are stated to be summon by own effect or a card effect. "Kagetokage" is summon by a trigger when a monster is summoned. This put "Kagetokage" as the same as "Rare Metal Dragon" who both doesn't have how it can be summon. Both only have one thing in common with Nomi, that it cannot be Normal Summon/Set. Seriously other card have cannot be Special Summon too, and more other cannot be. The whole thing that make it a Nomi is it can't be normal/set and a summoning procedure that is to only that way, then if is did it can be re-summon, not "Kagetokage". And yes if a reprint occur, then all cards above need one too to stop the disputing, especially people new to yugioh. If its on the card, fellow what it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCherries Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 I really do agree a wording fix would help a lot here. Technically, thinking SD/AM can revive itself after using Bolt isn't entirely wrong since, according to those printed words, you ARE fulfilling one of its summoning conditions."This card cannot be Special Summoned except with "Assault Mode Activate" or its own effect when it was Special Summoned with "Assault Mode Activate"." would prevent confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 To be fair, we haven't really had a near-generic card that "ignores Summoning Conditions", so some ruling confusion is expected with this card's release. Most Nomis are pretty obvious, and then we get some like the OP mentioned, which are capable of being Summoned by another means, but they had to have hit the Field first. Until this card, those cards simply could not hit the Field by any means except its own Summon Condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delibirb Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Well I'm wondering if that ruling exists because of that last clause, "you can't special summon for the rest of this turn." Vennominaga and SD/am both would try to SS themselves again during your turn. That depends on what the cars means by other, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azuh Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 I agree with the statement, its taken me a few reads to go over the whole "Must first be Special Summoned" situation. It really makes me a bit annoyed that Konami TCG didnt follow it's OCG counterpart and introducrd the "Special Summon Monster" subtype. On another note, this card can Summon Ritual Monsters. I was wondering if there's any Ritual Monster that can somewhat use this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Assault Revival Banishes the monster it Summons; clearly they were aware of the fact Stardust/Buster has its own work-around to the Nomi clause. Bolt, however, is just an oddity by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Well I'm wondering if that ruling exists because of that last clause, "you can't special summon for the rest of this turn." Vennominaga and SD/am both would try to SS themselves again during your turn. That depends on what the cars means by other, though. If monsters leave the Field, they are considered a different instance of that monster and would not be able to be SSed while "you cannot Special Summon other monsters" is being applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 ....wouldnt the fact Bolt says you can't Special Summon other monsters, imply you could only summon the monster in question, regardless of where it goes in the turn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(GigaDrillBreaker) Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Y'know, Arcanite Magician: Assault Mode is another pretty sick target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
玄魔の王 Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Y'know, Arcanite Magician: Assault Mode is another pretty sick target. As is Fushioh Richie, since he becomes a free Zombie Master that's hard to beat over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 ....wouldnt the fact Bolt says you can't Special Summon other monsters, imply you could only summon the monster in question, regardless of where it goes in the turn? You can only Summon the monster you selected when resolving this effect during that turn. That instance of Special Summoning is the only Special Summon you can perform in the turn. You cannot Summon monsters of the same name as that monster, even if it's the same physical card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Pretty sure this card doesn't target, so Richie goes back to the Deck.You can only Summon the monster you selected when resolving this effect during that turn. That instance of Special Summoning is the only Special Summon you can perform in the turn. You cannot Summon monsters of the same name as that monster, even if it's the same physical card. I'm silly for trying to nitpick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Well guys I mean, why bother thinking before making a card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Yamiegg Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Summon Lava Golem BECAUSE YOU CAN. I quote: Well guys I mean, why bother thinking before making a card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 The worst part is, Summoning Lava Golem with this wouldn't actually be that terrible of a move, since it'll return to your Deck before your Standby Phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heraldry_lord Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 Well guys I mean, why bother thinking before making a card? Right now, there isn't much this card can put down that you'd want shuffled back not long after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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