[Card Discussion] Wyrmrider Gaion

[Marco Polo]

Doing generic cards, trying to fit them to or against DP trends. ^^

So, we can not hold players from exploiting whatever the game has to offer, but we can at least make accurate counters.

Been making this for 2 days now, tried my best at making this light, yet potent, yet balanced. 

Tried making it so that the advantage you gain off this will be fair, and so this card will be the answer if your opponent played too fast for you to catch up, or if they are conducting a looping float engine, making sure this can't be abused to push for game earlier than intended and so on...

 

1 monster you control + 1 monster your opponent controls with higher ATK

You can Fusion Summon this card from your Extra Deck by discarding 1 card which was originally "Polymerization" and sending the above Fusion Materials from the field to the Graveyard.

➀ : When this card is Fusion Summoned: You can banish 1 ”Wyrmrider Gaion” from your Extra Deck; banish 1 monster in either player’s Graveyard whose original ATK is higher than this card’s ATK. If you do, neither player can Summon monsters with the same name for the rest of the duel.

➁ : If you control other monsters with higher ATK than this card, send them to the Graveyard. If you cannot, destroy this card.

➂ : You cannot Summon monsters while you control this face-up card.

 

So, we can not hold players from exploiting whatever the game has to offer, but we can at least make accurate counters.

Been making this for 2 days now, tried my best at making this light, yet potent, yet balanced. 

Tried making it so that the advantage you gain off this will be fair, and so this card becomes the answer if your opponent played too fast for you to catch up, or if they are conducting a looping float engine, making sure this can't be abused to push for game earlier than intended and so on...

 

Ingredients: 

• Polymerization
• A monster
• An opponent that does power plays too well. 

 

So. staple? not sure. but if you can afford running poly, advised. ;)

[evil cucumber]

im not sure if poly can be used to summon this guy, since it stats that you must use monsters from your hand and field only.

If you want to keep this card being summoned using your opp monster, you could make it a monster that Special Summons itself from the Extra Deck (like that Cyber dragon that requires machines) but with the cost of discarding 1 Polymerization from your hand.

Anyway, nice card. Its first effect reminds me of some G-units from cardfight lol

Also its prohibition eff is pretty cool. Dont have much to complain about this card, it seems balanced enough. Good work

[Cirrus]

This card, if intended to use Poly, is brutal in Sky Conquerors. This should probably not be the case. Why is it so easy to summon anyway? I mean I don't really mind except that it steals an opponent's higher ATK monster for basically free.

 

I don't quite like how it is at the present but I think it's a nice design niche.

[Marco Polo]

im not sure if poly can be used to summon this guy, since it stats that you must use monsters from your hand and field only.

If you want to keep this card being summoned using your opp monster, you could make it a monster that Special Summons itself from the Extra Deck (like that Cyber dragon that requires machines) but with the cost of discarding 1 Polymerization from your hand.

Anyway, nice card. Its first effect reminds me of some G-units from cardfight lol

Also its prohibition eff is pretty cool. Dont have much to complain about this card, it seems balanced enough. Good work

Fixed!! thanks for pointing that out I really forgot that.

 

This card, if intended to use Poly, is brutal in Sky Conquerors. This should probably not be the case. Why is it so easy to summon anyway? I mean I don't really mind except that it steals an opponent's higher ATK monster for basically free.

 

I don't quite like how it is at the present but I think it's a nice design niche.

not sure how brutal can it be in sky conquerors b/c it's a primadonna that literally has to be the only thing on your field at any given time, also cannot be reused since it banishes a second copy of itself.

should be tested anyway,

thanks ;)

[Cirrus]

Well, I'd use it for the one-shot Prohibition effect and then just leave it to die. But I suppose that makes the Polymerization used for it in SQ irretrievable (as they rely on their Fusion being sent to the Graveyard to rebuy the Poly) so it's not too bad.

[Darj]

I don't like this card and the heavy card-hate around it.

First, it takes materials from the opponent's side of the field. Wasn't that one of the reasons Super-Poly was recently banned, along its pseudo-Spell Speed 4? And this card exploits that mechanic again.

Then there is the Prohibition effect. Calling the right card can straight out seal the game for you depending on the matchup and all what you need to do is tech Poly and dedicate 2 ED lots to this; that's ridiculously unfair in my opinion. Even if this monster cannot last long on the field and 2200 is not that threatening, by removing an opponent's monster AND potentially locking the opponent's win condition it already pulls its weight.

 

Really, this card takes Poly to a whole new level by turning it into a pseudo-"Monarch Stormforth". Bonus points if you use floaters yourself as Fusion Material.

[Marco Polo]

I don't like this card and the heavy card-hate around it.

First, it takes materials from the opponent's side of the field. Wasn't that one of the reasons Super-Poly was recently banned, along its pseudo-Spell Speed 4? And this card exploits that mechanic again.

Then there is the Prohibition effect. Calling the right card can straight out seal the game for you depending on the matchup and all what you need to do is tech Poly and dedicate 2 ED lots to this; that's ridiculously unfair in my opinion. Even if this monster cannot last long on the field and 2200 is not that threatening, by removing an opponent's monster AND potentially locking the opponent's win condition it already pulls its weight.

 

Really, this card takes Poly to a whole new level by turning it into a pseudo-"Monarch Stormforth". Bonus points if you use floaters yourself as Fusion Material.

You've got it wrong on a few levels dear, 

• 1.Super Poly was limited & banned only recently because the Fusion toolbox grew much bigger and housed Shaddolls as well.                                                                                                                               Super Poly also existed in the GX era when it was only useful for E-Heroes and nobody cared, it was "cool" at peak; it got banned because it could Summon nightmares beyond one's imagination while getting rid of an opponent's monster (while being psuedo spell speed 4 but that's not the main reason).
• 2.This using an opp's monster is only a form of removal. equals as if you Fusion Summoned yourself, then banished something straight from the field as reward. It can't Summon a generic fusion, an El Shaddoll, or anything, just itself. /=/ Super Poly.
• 3.A floater would barely work because eff (2) sends them to the Graveyard. so no bonuses here (unless they float in a searching manner, but that still doesn't equal field presence as your opponent has the full decision of what to do with this, they can make you keep it on field until they're ready to fight whatever you have.)
• 4.It can only banish a monster who's ATK is higher than 2200. Most, if not all engine cards are 2200 and below, rest is usually saved for bosses. That's one of the factors I considered when balancing it.  

 

Sorry if it sounded passive-aggressive I've just had a lot to say, everything was thought about in the making process.

[Cirrus]

Upon re-reading, this card isn't particularly broken at all or even anywhere close to overwhelming, mainly because its Prohibition effect doesn't usually stop anyone from playing the game (I thought it could touch S/Ts but it can't!) ... it's only a wrench for the most part. You trade 2 cards for 2 cards, which is a fair trade, and the drawback is decently hefty. The argument about floaters is irrelevant because floaters fuel everything generic, and the fact they float is an intrinsic quality of the card and not really this card's problem.

 

I am compelled to agree with Marco Polo here.

[Darj]

So what? It still turns Poly into a Monarch Stormforth that can be splashed anywhere. The 2200 ATK restriction is barely a restriction/drawback; you can still take out big monsters by using weak monsters as material. Then add to this that Poly is now searchable by Owl/Blazeman plus it got a bit of decent support recently.

 

On #3: Yes, with floaters I meant mostly effects that add stuff to hand, or removal effects. For instance, Shaddolls, Scarm, etc. (not mentioning BAs because they may not like this card since it isn't a BA) Also, the opponent doesn't have the full decision on what to do with this. You can remove it yourself by Tributing it, using as material for another Fusion, or go as far as ramming it, to get rid of its lock.

 

I agree that the issue with floaters is more the fault of said floaters than this card, though.

 

On point #4: How about banishing Nephilim, arguably Shaddoll's win condition? Or Grapha in DWs? Machina Fortress? Yeah. Again, depending on the opposing deck, you can pick a core monster and potentially win the duel. Not being able to lock floater engines doesn't make the card any more fair when you can lock win conditions.

[Marco Polo]

So what? It still turns Poly into a Monarch Stormforth that can be splashed anywhere. The 2200 ATK restriction is barely a restriction/drawback; you can still take out big monsters by using weak monsters as material. Then add to this that Poly is now searchable by Owl/Blazeman plus it got a bit of decent support recently.

 

On #3: Yes, with floaters I meant mostly effects that add stuff to hand, or removal effects. For instance, Shaddolls, Scarm, etc. (not mentioning BAs because they may not like this card since it isn't a BA) Also, the opponent doesn't have the full decision on what to do with this. You can remove it yourself by Tributing it, using as material for another Fusion, or go as far as ramming it, to get rid of its lock.

 

I agree that the issue with floaters is more the fault of said floaters than this card, though.

 

On point #4: How about banishing Nephilim, arguably Shaddoll's win condition? Or Grapha in DWs? Machina Fortress? Yeah. Again, depending on the opposing deck, you can pick a core monster and potentially win the duel. Not being able to lock floater engines doesn't make the card any more fair when you can lock win conditions.

Neph gets you a fusion spell back and is locked then. rest of the duel is yours with Winda + Egrystal / Winda + Shekhinaga which are not worse, but different.  

about Grapha in DWs, Machina Fortress etc. you're just proving this potent, not broken. they still have Synch / Xyz access (not sure about DWs tho if they have access to either of these?) 

#3: If tributing is the problem then consider it done, you cannot Summon while it is face-up on the field now, alright? reflect to me if that was a worthy to change. 

 

It's still not monarch stormforth here since we use a material of yours as well, but in case you guys agree I'll bump the materials to "2 monsters you control + 1..." instead to even things out, agreed? 

[evil cucumber]

Taking a better look at this i noticed it can be summoned using 1 face down monster you control, maybe change it to only face-up would help.

Also this plus Fusion Substitute is really crazy. You could use the Prohibition 2 times per duel and even draw cards e.e I usually tend to not like cards that fit good in any deck like noden or mask change II, but oddly i find this card nice and interesting, although it would certainly become a staple...

[Marco Polo]

Taking a better look at this i noticed it can be summoned using 1 face down monster you control, maybe change it to only face-up would help.

Also this plus Fusion Substitute is really crazy. You could use the Prohibition 2 times per duel and even draw cards e.e I usually tend to not like cards that fit good in any deck like noden or mask change II, but oddly i find this card nice and interesting, although it would certainly become a staple...

Correct. fixed to "card that's name was originally "Polymerization"" 

[Darj]

Neph gets you a fusion spell back and is locked then. rest of the duel is yours with Winda + Egrystal / Winda + Shekhinaga which are not worse, but different.

 
Yeah, but Shaddolls rarely main FIREs or EARTHs (except for Mathman) to consistently play Egrystal or Shekhinaga; they rely on Shaddoll Core to Summon them, and only main 1 copy at most. Instead, they main LIGHTs for easier access to Nephilim, but if they can't make Nephilim, they are screwed. Also, good luck winning the game with a 2200-ATK Midrash.
 

about Grapha in DWs, Machina Fortress etc. you're just proving this potent, not broken. they still have Synch / Xyz access (not sure about DWs tho if they have access to either of these) and if not, it's time for them to try and push for game while they can.

 
Errr, isn't it the other way around? This proves the card is broken, not just potent. Regardless if those decks have access to other win conditions or not, telling them to "win the game before the opponent drops Wyrmrider" is unfair and unhealthy for the game.
Granted, in a way this is like Cursed Seal in that it can lock win conditions, but the big difference is that not only this is splashable but also gets Poly support, whereas few decks can afford to run the Counter Trap.
 

#3: If tributing is the problem then consider it done, you cannot Summon while it is face-up on the field now, alright? reflect to me if that was a worthy to change.
 
It's still not monarch stormforth here since you use a material of yours as well but in case you guys agree I'll bump the materials to 2 monsters you control + 1... instead to even things out, agreed?

 
The problem is not the Tribute nor its cost, but the splashable perma-Prohibition effect that wins games. If you make it easy to play, then it is a problem; but if you begin to add costs or restrictions as an attempt for balancing it, then the card will end up bad and/or impractical, similar to the aforementioned Cursed Seal. Currently I don't see a middle ground for this card.

 

 

Comparing this to Mask Change II or Noden-Instant Fusion is kinda accurate, and to be honest, like Silenth I'm not a fan of cards like these.

[Love of Ghibli]

Well I think my problem is I'm never a fan of the opponent having to pay the cost or have their resources meet the needs for my cards. I usually read it as a dirty way to punish the opponent for playing the game...which is never fair.

 

For example, I think there is a problem when you kill Qli towers, Sha Mid, and others just because you want to summon this thing. And there is nothing the opponent can do about it. So unless I'm reading it wrong the summoning requirements for this card are the strongest form of removal. That's the only thing that I don't like.

The prohibition effect: Well it just punishes decks that have a one monster win condition. In the examples so far Grapha is basically all DW's have to really offer, Fortress that's a little iffy, but everything else can still make something to kill it or have some other forms of removal that won't make it threatening. It would only really be a problem if that effect lingers after the creature leaves the field.