[Discussion] Backrow searchers

[Darj]

[spoiler=Mercenary of the Black Chain]
When this card is Normal Summoned: You can add 1 "Shadow Spell", "Fiendish Chain" or "with Chain" Normal Trap Card from your Deck to your hand. You can target 1 face-up "Shadow Spell", "Fiendish Chain" or "with Chain" Normal Trap Card you control, and 1 Spell/Trap Card your opponent controls; destroy those targets. This effect can only be used once while this card is face-up on the field.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Different Dimension Border Master]
When this card is Normal Summoned: You can add 1 "Dimension" or "D.D." Spell/Trap Card from your Deck to your hand. If this card is banished from your Deck, hand or Graveyard: You can add 1 "Dimension" or "D.D." monster, or "Ally of Justice Quarantine", from your Deck to your hand, except "Different Dimension Border Master". You can only use this effect of "Different Dimension Border Master" once per turn.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Mirror Horse]
This card is unaffected by "Mirror" Trap Cards. When this card is Normal Summoned: You can add 1 "Mirror" Trap Card from your Deck to your hand (except an "Aquamirror" card). When this Special Summoned card is destroyed by an opponent's monster (either by battle or by card effect) and sent to the Graveyard: Destroy the monster that destroyed this card[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Claymore Entrapper]

When this card is Normal Summoned: You can add 1 "Chain Burst" or "Widespread" Trap Card from your Deck to your hand. If this card is sent from the hand or field to the Graveyard: You can Special Summon 1 "Claymore Token" (Machine-Type/FIRE/Level 1/ATK 0/DEF 700). If this Token is destroyed, you can destroy 1 Spell/Trap Card on the field.[/spoiler]

Well, this thread is more for announcing that I will remove these from DP after the current tournament concludes.
I realized that they are a bit too good and aren't consistent with the power level I want to push on the DP metagame. I mean, I want a format where destruction is still relevant, and these basically discourage said goal by either encouraging non-destruction disruption (e.g. Mercenary, Border Master) or making destruction more accessible (Horse, Entrapper).

Perhaps the would be fine in TCG, but not convinced of their impact in DP.

The strongest one of these 4 is Mercenary without a doubt. And while I could simply nerf it by changing its type, reducing its ATK and/or outright removing Fiendish Chain from its searching range, then most likely Border Master would take the lead as the best backrow searcher along or before Myrmeleo. If I nerf Border Master, then Mirror Horse would be the next best one; and so on until all of them end up nerfed. Well, perhaps Entrapper would be untouched, but at this point I may as well remove all of them.

 

 

Any thoughts before I drop the axe?

[Love of Ghibli]

I didn't particularly have a problem with them. The fact that everyone runs solely monster based engines with derp effects seemed like more of a problem then 1 monster who could search 1 card to stop that. Granted it being searchable by ROTA could've been a problem, but I just find it weird that out of all the things that I "have a problem with" in this tourney the mercenary wasn't the problem. But that is another discussion for another time.

[Cirrus]

Claymore Entrapper's search itself isn't that strong; honestly the second effect is significantly stronger than the first. Mirror Horse would be mediocre as well but presents the formidable threat of being able to search the Imprisoning Mirrors. Similarly, Border Master fetches D-Fissure. but isn't otherwise inherently imba. Mercenary is the most egregious culprit, for reasons I've already outlined (because of the card it searches is so strong).

 

Removing just these cards doesn't solve a lot of issues, though. Also I'm pretty sure Mercenary would be extremely good even in the TCG too... possibly not as unique as Denko Sekka but definitely very impactful. It's DARK, level 4, Warrior-Type, has good attack ... yeah.

 

Aside: Fiendish Chain is much superior when searched because despite your opponent knowing it exists, they cannot play around it. BTH? Void? Nightmare? They can bait these out or just simply not trigger the activation condition. But with Fiendish Chain, you can't really not activate any monster effects or attack. Part of the power in the Trap Hole cards originate from the following reason: as a certain ninja likes to say, "The unseen Trap Hole is the deadliest."

[VampireofDarkness]

The problem with Mercenary is much more unique than say Claymore or Border Master, the latter 2 whose problems are minimal if nonexistent. Whereas Claymore and Border Master are both specific to "Can you actually run this?", Mercenary searches a card lower tier Decks have specialized in for years. Having it be searchable gives everyone access and the first player to summon Mercenary would have a HUGE advantage, just because your opponent is playing the game. All you did is learn why Bottomless Trap Hole is and will stay at 1.

As for Border Master, I can't think of a single Deck this format that would want to run it, since the Decks that could have tight space. That's part of the factor in most of these actually. Run 2 of this and 1 Fissure isn't ideal, especially if the 1 Fissure gets negated or MST'd

Mirror Horse would be fine as a way to prevent overextending, but searching the Imprisoning Mirrors? No

Claymore is in the same vein as Horse. It also means you have to run 3 MST to maximize it. Not every Deck does so

[Darj]

Claymore Entrapper's search itself isn't that strong; honestly the second effect is significantly stronger than the first. Mirror Horse would be mediocre as well but presents the formidable threat of being able to search the Imprisoning Mirrors. Similarly, Border Master fetches D-Fissure. but isn't otherwise inherently imba. Mercenary is the most egregious culprit, for reasons I've already outlined (because of the card it searches is so strong).

 

Removing just these cards doesn't solve a lot of issues, though. Also I'm pretty sure Mercenary would be extremely good even in the TCG too... possibly not as unique as Denko Sekka but definitely very impactful. It's DARK, level 4, Warrior-Type, has good attack ... yeah.

 

On Claymore, just want to point out the second effect is strong because it is intended to compensate the weaker searching effect compared to the other 3.

 

About Mercenary in TCG, it may be good but looking at most of the relevant decks, I don't really see them teching 1~2 Mercs just for the sake of Fiendish. I think only decks that already main ROTA would consider it (e.g. Tellarknight, Zefra), but even then, there may be better cards to run that don't take your Normal Summon.

[-Noel-]

Well, personally I don't think any of these deserve an axe from their own creator (QQ). It's not different from how Konami keep banning stuffs they discovered way too powerful or abusable, but at DP where you can always edit your card, I don't think deleting them is necessary and keeping such flavorful cards is always better. Granted, Merc is OP with all those factors, but Idk, changing it to sth like Shadow Mist where you search only when SS'd at a hard OPT will make it less accessible while also keep its flavor and usability, at least imo, also more deck construction fun :)

 

also f***in backspace I swear I've typed more than this :(

[Darj]

The thing is that however I nerf them, I think we shouldn't have searchers like this in DP, so I would rather exile them than make them impractical, if not useless. That way, at least they would remain as acceptable cards for TCG, Advanced Section, etc.

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

If you're pushing for a format that encourages destruction to be the main form of removal (in that cards that can ignore destruction, like Winda, are discouraged), then Mirror Force is going to be an overpowered card. Maybe not broke enough to be banned, but definitely something that needs to be addressed. It's a Raigeki when your opponent attacks, and if the DP format isn't as resistant to frontrow wipes as the format that brought Raigeki back is, then they need to be hit. Since Raigeki is a free frontrow wipe, coming out in the era of destruction immunity/floating and whatnot, then it needs to go back on the Forbidden List. Mirror Force, since it is essentially a better D-Pris now that destruction is adequate enough removal that Prison's banish isn't as necessary of an out to the attacker, should probably be Limited or Semi-Limited. This won't really make much sense if it has a searcher. Then there's the Imprisoning Mirrors, which have a cringeworthy "do too much to certain Decks" design, and honestly don't deserve a searcher.

 

As for Mercenary, it searches some irrelevant cards like Shadow Spell and Blast With Chain, which I like. But it also searches Fiendish Chain, and imo Chain is the best effect negation card in the format even without this card searching it. This just solidifies Fiendish Chain even further. Chain isn't really broke here like Mirror Force theoretically is here, but I honestly would rather see irrelevant cards get support than relevant ones.

 

I really don't like how Border Master searches D-Fissure since that card basically screws Decks over. If we do end up ditching Horse and hitting Mirror Force, then my comment on Mercenary searching Fiendish Chain will start to apply here as D-Pris would become the top attack-triggered removal card. As for its banish effect, its best search is... uh... D.D. Warrior Lady? I'm ok with this, tbh.

 

Entrapper leads to some random fun stuff with the Widespread duo, and doesn't really need to go (YET, at least).