"Donald Trump said"

[Dwarven King]

This.

 

Deporting every single illegal immigrant?  That's a pipe dream.  Only a dumbass would think they could realistically accomplish that.  That's not to say what it'd do to our international image, huh?  We're already considered quite inhumane by the rest of the world.  Deportion does nothing to help anybody.  If we're talking about American spirit, we should honestly make things easier for immigrants.  People trying to escape and find solace from their home countries are most likely not going to get far in the current process.

 

The current minimum wage being $7.25 or, well, $7.65 is just not with the times.  Adjusted for inflation, it'd easily be a dollar or two, or even three dollars more.  That's just a simple update for the times.  Prices aren't going to be immediately adjusted to match, of course, so that won't be as bad as people make it out to be.

 

 

yay people know things! I actually appreciate this post and I have nothing to add.

 

...wut?

 

Are we being serious right now? But I...I said the same thing! Just more words and explanations! Like...wut?

 

*flips table*

 

I'm done with this sheet!

 

*exits thread*

[Simping For Hina]

...wut?

 

Are we being serious right now? But I...I said the same thing! Just more words and explanations! Like...wut?

 

*flips table*

 

I'm done with this sheet!

 

*exits thread*

Hardly. The only thing you mentioned was your understanding of how wages affect the economy, and how it needs to gradually increase. The thing is: You were arguing semantics and not concrete data, but your understanding of how the data is relevant to what needs to be done. Sanders does want gradual increase, but he also wants to to be functionally more than the prices allow, with a rushing work to finally reaching an adequate standing for people to live off of. That is his end goal, with an end result but no factoring in the prices of the economy and their substantial rise, which is only a rate at which it can grow.  

[ihop]

ftr, sanders wants to increase minimum wage to 15 dollars. That's 'money to the people'.

 

All increasing minimum wage does, especially in huge amounts, is help stupid teens and hurt middle class. Every other prices rises with minimum wage, and benefits/etc. get cut in order to afford the minimum wage, while smaller businesses get forced out.

 

The poor stay just as poor, the rich stay just as rich, and the middle class lose out because (And this has already started happening in places) they have to choose either to cut hours to get benefits or lose benefits.

 

Minimum wage isn't actually beneficial like that. Sure, it is to a degree, but the higher it goes, the higher the cost of living goes and the lower the chance of getting benefits goes.

 

I'm not supporting Trump, but I am saying that Sanders is more naiive than people realize.

 

Well, having a minimum wage that is too low (as the current one clearly is) has all kinds of problems because the government has to give out obscene amounts of money in benefits to people who are in work just so they can keep their homes and stay alive, which really needn't be happening because someone in full-time work should ideally be able to support themselves fully unless they have children or something. I do agree that $15 is excessively high (although it's probably fair in some more expensive places, such as the proposed living wage over here which is quite a bit higher for people living in London, but it's pretty clear that it's way too low at the minute looking at current levels of in-work poverty. 

 

Aren't 3 major cities in the US gradually raising there minimum wage to $15 an hour anyway? 

 

LA, Seattle and San Fransisco, with the later planning on doing so by 2018? 

 

I can't speak for LA but house prices in Seattle and San Francisco are so ridiculously high that that's probably justified.

 

They're illegals. Every moment they stay here they're committing a crime. You pro criminals mate?

 

check your funking privilege

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

To add to this, if just slightly:

 

If McDonalds raises its pay from minimum wage to $15/hour, studies show that they would only need to increase the price of a bigmac by 25 cents to make up for it.

 

So the point here is obviously that even if minimum wage goes up, the cost of living doesn't actually raise at the same amount. More importantly, even if a low income individual needed to immediately put that money back into the cost of living anyway, that's still twice as much money being circulated in the economy than there was before.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I must stop this newly formed general-posting habit.

Thank you, freaking just thank you. People talk like raising minimum wage will increase cost of living by an exponential and equal rate. Our minimum wage is far behind the cost of living as is.

 

And yeah, many people around here are trying to live off minimum wage (which is 7.25 btw) because that's basically all they can get.

A little story. I worked at Walmart for this amount, I had to take a taxi cause I can't drive, that plus the cost of meals and I wasn't really making much. Imagine if I was feeding more than just me or paying all the bills?

 

Also Dae, tbh, DK did say basically the same thing. I don't get why you feel that people need to say things a certain way to be considered correct. But that's another matter.

 

Sanders still remains the only candidate I have any hope in.

[a bad post]

To add to this, if just slightly:

 

If McDonalds raises its pay from minimum wage to $15/hour, studies show that they would only need to increase the price of a bigmac by 25 cents to make up for it.

 

So the point here is obviously that even if minimum wage goes up, the cost of living doesn't actually raise at the same amount. More importantly, even if a low income individual needed to immediately put that money back into the cost of living anyway, that's still twice as much money being circulated in the economy than there was before.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I must stop this newly formed general-posting habit.

The problem with this is that this relies on what McDonalds should do rather than what it will do. I'm sure we all know this, but businesses love making money and I highly doubt McDonalds is going to go broke if they start paying their employees $15/hour. However as soon as businesses start to see any dip in their profits it's a big red flag to them (obviously), and they start thinking up ways to make sure their profits don't dip. Some of those methods unfortunately mean laying of workers, or slashing hours, which means those people we just tried to help by raising the minimum wage are hurt and put in the same or even worse position. I'm not saying that the current minimum wage should be left as is, but I'm just saying that this is what happens when you make businesses pay their employees more. A way to counter this is by cutting taxes on businesses (which helps small businesses the most, and they're the ones who really need it), cause as we all know people are more likely to be generous when they're making more money.

 

It's reasons like this that I'm hesitant to vote for Bernie. His social views (from what I've seen of them) are on point, but socialism... well look where that got Europe specifically Greece. I have cousins who went from living comfortably to losing almost everything they own because of how bad the economy is there.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

check your f***ing privilege

 

Checked, fact remains they have no right to be here

[Aerion Brightflame]

Checked, fact remains they have no right to be here

 

Unless you are a native american, or direct ancestor of one, arguing about the right to be there is a little in bad taste. 

 

But the point remains that you can't just remove them at this point without a massive amount of major consequences that out-weight the gains; Poor public image, forcing a massive rework of basic infrastructure, may end up dissuading actually skilled migrants who may wish to come over. Oh and I don't think it really fixes the job problem that much. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Unless you are a native american, or direct ancestor of one, arguing about the right to be there is a little in bad taste. 

 

But the point remains that you can't just remove them at this point without a massive amount of major consequences that out-weight the gains; Poor public image, forcing a massive rework of basic infrastructure, may end up dissuading actually skilled migrants who may wish to come over. Oh and I don't think it really fixes the job problem that much. 

Who will respect the laws if they won't be enforced. You can get to the US legally and fairly, jumping borders isn't such a way

[Aerion Brightflame]

Who will respect the laws if they won't be enforced. You can get to the US legally and fairly, jumping borders isn't such a way

 

These are people coming over from poverty. And they won't get all of the same jobs they do if they came over legally; There employment is primarly based around the fact they can be paid below minimum wage without an ability to complain about it, and the fact they can't speak out about almost anything for fear of being employment. 

 

It's something that makes it very attractive to employers of what are viewed as 'low skill jobs'. 

 

And yes, you can get into the US legally. But getting in with a work visa is much harder, and a green card is harder still. Because funnily enough, whilst countries want immigration, they want it for workers with high skills, like scientists, doctors and engineers, not what are essentially just bodies for labour. 

 

I mean hell, you have to pay to apply for a work visa apparently - People in poverty have to pay non refundable money in order to have the chance to make it into America to work. They don't want to, and probably can't afford to do that. 

 

Just to put it in perspective for you; The average minimum wage in Mexico according to wikipedia is 0.62 dollars an hour (As of January 2015). The average minimum wage in the US is 7.25 dollars (Effective of 2009 apparently, which means if it's still true damn you guys should've adjusted for inflation a long time ago) . 

 

Even if they are paid half of the minimum wage, they are making 5 times what they would earn in there home country. Is it any wonder they cross the border? 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

These are people coming over from poverty. And they won't get all of the same jobs they do if they came over legally; There employment is primarly based around the fact they can be paid below minimum wage without an ability to complain about it, and the fact they can't speak out about almost anything for fear of being employment. 

 

It's something that makes it very attractive to employers of what are viewed as 'low skill jobs'. 

 

And yes, you can get into the US legally. But getting in with a work visa is much harder, and a green card is harder still. Because funnily enough, whilst countries want immigration, they want it for workers with high skills, like scientists, doctors and engineers, not what are essentially just bodies for labour. 

 

I mean hell, you have to pay to apply for a work visa apparently - People in poverty have to pay non refundable money in order to have the chance to make it into America to work. They don't want to, and probably can't afford to do that. 

 

Just to put it in perspective for you; The average minimum wage in Mexico according to wikipedia is 0.62 dollars an hour (As of January 2015). The average minimum wage in the US is 7.25 dollars (Effective of 2009 apparently, which means if it's still true damn you guys should've adjusted for inflation a long time ago) . 

 

Even if they are paid half of the minimum wage, they are making 5 times what they would earn in there home country. Is it any wonder they cross the border? 

They're stealing jobs for actual Americans. I'm a third generation immigrant. My grandparents came the proper way to this country, you know, Angel Island, they didn't pay some half-ass coyote to get over here. 

 

Allowing the illegals to stay shits on all the people who actually had to work to come here

[Aerion Brightflame]

They're stealing jobs for actual Americans. I'm a third generation immigrant. My grandparents came the proper way to this country, you know, Angel Island, they didn't pay some half-ass coyote to get over here. 

 

Allowing the illegals to stay shits on all the people who actually had to work to come here

 

Not really, I imagine a lot of the jobs they do are ones that Americans think are too good for them nowadays. Like cleaning, child-minding, construction to an extent, and basic manual labour. I say that as a general statement, but it's somewhat the case in Britain and our cultures are similar enough. 

 

Like do you think a lot of people apply for those jobs or want those jobs? No, it's deeming manual labour, which your society is built not to value given that one of the principals of your nation is that if you work hard and play by the rules, your children will be better off socially and economically than you were. And that does not work long term, because somebody has to lose out. Some people have to do the basic menial tasks that allow society to function. 

 

Because I don't think if you removed all migrants instantly you'd have people flocking to these kinds of jobs. Not unless they had literally no other option, and that's generally not a good thing for an employer to be looking for. That's also the case here; These are people who have no other choice but to seek employment or eduction within America, because there are no opportunities for them at home. 

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Who will respect the laws if they won't be enforced. You can get to the US legally and fairly, jumping borders isn't such a way

Who will respect the laws? Most sane and intelligent people.

And it's not entirely fair the way you can get to the US legally, otherwise it wouldn't be such a problem.

 

 

Allowing the illegals to stay shits on all the people who actually had to work to come here

And yet I don't see as many people who "worked to come here" complaining about it as you'd think for a group of people supposedly being "sheet on"

[Shalltear Bloodfallen]

They're stealing jobs for actual Americans. I'm a third generation immigrant. My grandparents came the proper way to this country, you know, Angel Island, they didn't pay some half-ass coyote to get over here. 

 

Allowing the illegals to stay shits on all the people who actually had to work to come here

 

You speak as if they're deliberately allowing "illegals" to stay, when the fact of the matter is there's a whole damn network based around bringing them over to the point that now you'll be pouring alot of money into the trash by sending people back, not mentioning just to figure out which people you need to send back, and when you've sent 10 people back, 20 more have crossed into your country, and frankly some just dont wanna send them back because they know those people are statisticly escaping living conditions that are waaaaaaaay bellow the poverty line.

 

I want you to entertain this thought for atleast a second, maybe those that feel the need to illegaly cross the border dont do the "work" to cross legaly because they cant do the work. As people have already stated in this thread, while countries are "pro-immigration" they really dont want people who are just "bodies for labour", they want high educated people, doctors, engineers, and so on.

Now what are the odds that someone comming from underdeveloped countries, some where they'll directly risk death by seeking an education, could get that level of education? And what are the odds these people can pay for the paperwork involved in "legally" crossing the border?

 

Not very high.

 

The reason you were asked to "check your privileges" is that someone like you, living in a country like the US, really cannot relate to the living condition these people are more often then not escaping from.

 

Those that cross the border illegaly dont do it because "Gee, America sure seems nice, I want in".

It's a question of cross the border or to, at best, continue to live on, at most, the barest ammount possible to get by.

Even those within the US who live on minimum wage are nowhere near being able to relate to just how little these people usually need to live on.

[epicmemesbro]

They always do that everytime a candidate for a party messes up. They did the same thing with Obama when the Affordable Care Act was a mess. Democratic candidates claimed to be wishing to go in a different direction than Obama in terms of healthcare.

[Dad]

Since we're talking about things Trump said, let's DEFINITELY TALK ABOUT THIS sheet.

 

http://www.attn.com/stories/3226/donald-trump-response-to-anti-Islamic-campaign-supporter?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=viralvideoposttext&utm_campaign=videos

 

Watch the video.  Watch the funking VIDEO.

[epicmemesbro]

Tbh the US had some bad odds in terms of immigration from the start. They didn't really enforce any immigration laws for like two centuries. Even so the number of people immigrating from Mexico has decreased. I don't really think people should have immigrated here in the past decade, especially around the time of the economic recession (which had nothing to do with immigrants, large companies where to blame btw). A few people have actually went back on their own accord due to lack of jobs anyhow. I think people were better off staying in Mexico, and try to resolve their issues over there and try to improve the country. Heck, I'm gonna probably go work in a power plant that's currently under construction over there once I get my title and international license.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Oh there's something I'd like to mention, related to the honest thing.

 

In the debate that I made this topic for, they mentioned something Trump said about Fiorina. "Look at that face, is that a face you want as president" or something like that.

 

Trump said that "I didn't mean her face I was referring to her persona" which is odd as I'd think he should've specified that if it were true.

But then a minute or so later said, after Fiorina responded to this statement, "She's got a beautiful face and a beautiful personality"

So even if he was referring to her persona, seems a bit odd he'd say right after that she had a beautiful personality.

 

Might be nothing but might be a little hint that shows Trump isn't the "finally an honest candidate" that people say. I mean it's just one instance and could be seeing it wrong but that's how it seems to me.

[Makο]

Oh there's something I'd like to mention, related to the honest thing.

 

In the debate that I made this topic for, they mentioned something Trump said about Fiorina. "Look at that face, is that a face you want as president" or something like that.

 

Trump said that "I didn't mean her face I was referring to her persona" which is odd as I'd think he should've specified that if it were true.

But then a minute or so later said, after Fiorina responded to this statement, "She's got a beautiful face and a beautiful personality"

So even if he was referring to her persona, seems a bit odd he'd say right after that she had a beautiful personality.

 

Might be nothing but might be a little hint that shows Trump isn't the "finally an honest candidate" that people say. I mean it's just one instance and could be seeing it wrong but that's how it seems to me.

So, I guess he's honest about everything racist and bigoted, but nothing else? I dunno.

[epicmemesbro]

And also for those claiming "illegals are stealing our jobs" I'd like to see some citizens work in the hot sun for little pay for 10 hours a day, seven days a week picking fruits. Maybe you'd like to work in a sweatshop? Working a night shift as well perhaps?

[Dad]

What pisses me off is all this, "at least he's honest!" bullshit.  "He voices his opinion openly!"  So does my drunken uncle.  That doesn't make him presidential material.  It just makes him another jabroni.

[Timeskipper]

Guys, are you funking serious? Piece of advice from someone who lives in Italy: we've had someone that is exactly like Trump as a president for 25 years. Look at where we are now. Don't make this mistake. And if you will really vote him because he says openly all the bad stuff you don't want to say because it'll make you look like an jabroni - well, that says a lot about you.

Don't sell off your country to a dangerous idiot with too much money and too little common sense, that has been lying to you from day one, but keeps claiming that he's honest because he's not "politically correct".