"Donald Trump said"

[Blake]

Money towards helping the people of the nation = good.

 

Money towards building a big ass wall and forcing people out of the country, including legals due to racism and thus inciting civil unrest = bad.

 

Comparing the two agendas and claiming they are similar is ignorant.

ftr, sanders wants to increase minimum wage to 15 dollars. That's 'money to the people'.

 

All increasing minimum wage does, especially in huge amounts, is help stupid teens and hurt middle class. Every other prices rises with minimum wage, and benefits/etc. get cut in order to afford the minimum wage, while smaller businesses get forced out.

 

The poor stay just as poor, the rich stay just as rich, and the middle class lose out because (And this has already started happening in places) they have to choose either to cut hours to get benefits or lose benefits.

 

Minimum wage isn't actually beneficial like that. Sure, it is to a degree, but the higher it goes, the higher the cost of living goes and the lower the chance of getting benefits goes.

 

I'm not supporting Trump, but I am saying that Sanders is more naiive than people realize.

[Dwarven King]

You're right. He only wants to force out the illegals. What I'm saying is the process for that will require a lot of man power. Now who is to say that man power won't include racists who won't hesitate to force the legals out as well?

 

Look at WWII as an example when we started to put the Japanese in camps. It was decided the Japanese immigrants would be the ones in the camps. Yet we had people who were only part Japanese, born in America, and from a family that had been in America for generations. Why? Because when you mass group people like that based on racism, things like that happen.

 

Also, Trump's brand of clothing is made in Mexico. Yep, that's right. The man who wants to build a wall and kick out the illegals so we can have our jobs...has people in another country make his sheet at a fraction of the cost. He's a funking hypocrite and anyone who sides/supports him is wholly ignorant of the bigger picture.

 

But if anyone is all for civil unrest, by all means, vote for him. Just warn me ahead of time so I can leave the country before civil war starts. I'll go to Australia. Nobody bugs them. <_<

[Simping For Hina]

ftr, sanders wants to increase minimum wage to 15 dollars. That's 'money to the people'.

 

All increasing minimum wage does, especially in huge amounts, is help stupid teens and hurt middle class. Every other prices rises with minimum wage, and benefits/etc. get cut in order to afford the minimum wage, while smaller businesses get forced out.

 

The poor stay just as poor, the rich stay just as rich, and the middle class lose out because (And this has already started happening in places) they have to choose either to cut hours to get benefits or lose benefits.

 

Minimum wage isn't actually beneficial. Sure, it is to a degree, but the higher it goes, the higher the cost of living goes and the lower the chance of getting benefits goes.

 

I'm not supporting Trump, but I am saying that Sanders is more naiive than people realize.

The problem is: People are more naive about this entire thing. They are affected by group mentality and the social media campaign of everything. Example is with Dwarven King's post as he is completely attacking Trump's character more than anything, and not his running with the horde against him. That is what everyone is fascinated on, the character of the applicants and not going any further into getting information.

You're right. He only wants to force out the illegals. What I'm saying is the process for that will require a lot of man power. Now who is to say that man power won't include racists who won't hesitate to force the legals out as well?

 

Look at WWII as an example when we started to put the Japanese in camps. It was decided the Japanese immigrants would be the ones in the camps. Yet we had people who were only part Japanese, born in America, and from a family that had been in America for generations. Why? Because when you mass group people like that based on racism, things like that happen.

 

Also, Trump's brand of clothing is made in Mexico. Yep, that's right. The man who wants to build a wall and kick out the illegals so we can have our jobs...has people in another country make his sheet at a fraction of the cost. He's a funking hypocrite and anyone who sides/supports him is wholly ignorant of the bigger picture.

 

But if anyone is all for civil unrest, by all means, vote for him. Just warn me ahead of time so I can leave the country before civil war starts. I'll go to Australia. Nobody bugs them. <_<

You're comparing fear defined by ignorance to social (in)justice fueled by ignorance, which are mildly different and in no means set up by the same terms. A war compared to the work force are not even close. And I don't care what Trump does as I care more about what he is trying to get done as president, which is affect our society more than his attitude. He could be has much of a joke as anything, and could actually get so much done for his claims as president. This is causality and causation.

 

Trump is by no means a great man, but neither are most candidates in this running and you can attack them for who they are all you want, but that shouldn't be why you're voting. As Black mentioned, Sanders is trying to get a lot done for the country, but it isn't a great thing. It will affect the declining reign of the Middle class, which is meant to fuel this country, and also promote a more government-fueled country which is also a problem.

 

There is a lot at stake here, and all candidates have their problems as people and what they are getting at. But if you don't use your information properly, then you're also a problem of who to vote for.

 

And people here seemingly forget: This is the primaries, nothing can be done about the President until we have our runners. I keep comparing this entire thing to a 5K and the Elections to a marathon. Remember this, people!

[Dwarven King]

ftr, sanders wants to increase minimum wage to 15 dollars. That's 'money to the people'.

 

All increasing minimum wage does, especially in huge amounts, is help stupid teens and hurt middle class. Every other prices rises with minimum wage, and benefits/etc. get cut in order to afford the minimum wage, while smaller businesses get forced out.

 

The poor stay just as poor, the rich stay just as rich, and the middle class lose out because (And this has already started happening in places) they have to choose either to cut hours to get benefits or lose benefits.

 

Minimum wage isn't actually beneficial like that. Sure, it is to a degree, but the higher it goes, the higher the cost of living goes and the lower the chance of getting benefits goes.

 

I'm not supporting Trump, but I am saying that Sanders is more naiive than people realize.

 

You do realize prices of things is rising without minimum wage going up, right? It does not matter if minimum wage increases or not. Business will increase their pries whenever they want to. And they will. And they have.

 

Take McDonalds for example. No increase of wages here. Everyone is still paid the same. Yet their prices have increased.

 

As for helping teens? Do you even pay attention who works the low end jobs? Teens rarely even get hired anymore because jobs would rather have an employee that will take the position seriously, not some kid who is only there because mommy and daddy said so. I want into places with low end jobs, and you know what I see? Single parents trying to raise their kids. Older people who weren't able to get a decent education when they were kids stuck with a low end job.

 

If you worked a low end job in my area at $7.65 an hour and got 40 hours a week, you would make $1,224 a month before takes. After takes, you're looking at about $1,000. Now let's say you're a single mother with a two bedroom apartment. You're looking at about $500 a month for a SHITTY ass place. That leaves you with $500 to spend. Now electricity. Let's average that at about $100. Now you have $400 to spend. Phone? $50 is you go straighttalk. Apartment doesn't cover water? That's another $80. Now you have $270. Oh? You have a car you're making payments on so you can get to work? If you're lucky, your payments are $250 a month. Congratulations! You now have $20 left to buy food and clothes for yourself and your child! 

 

The worst part? You probably aren't going to get 40 hours a week. If you're really lucky, you'll get 32 at a low end. But I see people who bust their asses everyday get 24 hours a week. 

 

But, yeah, you're right. Minimum wage is just fine where it is. And if people can't make a living, they just suck, right?

[Blake]

You do realize prices of things is rising without minimum wage going up, right? It does not matter if minimum wage increases or not. Business will increase their pries whenever they want to. And they will. And they have.

So you want to accelerate it exponentially? That's not quite doubling it, that makes everything infinitely worse, especially in the shrot term.

 

Take McDonalds for example. No increase of wages here. Everyone is still paid the same. Yet their prices have increased.

People buy from anything but the dollar menu?

 

As for helping teens? Do you even pay attention who works the low end jobs? Teens rarely even get hired anymore because jobs would rather have an employee that will take the position seriously, not some kid who is only there because mommy and daddy said so. I want into places with low end jobs, and you know what I see? Single parents trying to raise their kids. Older people who weren't able to get a decent education when they were kids stuck with a low end job.

So you're just proving moreso that it doesn't help.

 

The only people that benefit from increased minimum wage are kids who have jobs and get more money. They don't need the benefits, it's just extra spending money in their pockets. If not even kids get jobs, then no one gets any help.

 

If you worked a low end job in my area at $7.65 an hour and got 40 hours a week, you would make $1,224 a month before takes. After takes, you're looking at about $1,000. Now let's say you're a single mother with a two bedroom apartment. You're looking at about $500 a month for a SHITTY ass place. That leaves you with $500 to spend. Now electricity. Let's average that at about $100. Now you have $400 to spend. Phone? $50 is you go straighttalk. Apartment doesn't cover water? That's another $80. Now you have $270. Oh? You have a car you're making payments on so you can get to work? If you're lucky, your payments are $250 a month. Congratulations! You now have $20 left to buy food and clothes for yourself and your child!

So how does increasing minimum wage in such an exponential degree fix this? Stores and prices just adjust to match, and everyone's in the same situation with money that has less value.

 

The worst part? You probably aren't going to get 40 hours a week. If you're really lucky, you'll get 32 at a low end. But I see people who bust their asses everyday get 24 hours a week.

Again, this doesn't prove anything about minimum wage. This is just an example of how people have to give up hours to get benefits, as well as the inability to get jobs as-is.

 

But, yeah, you're right. Minimum wage is just fine where it is. And if people can't make a living, they just suck, right?

But yeah, you're right, you totally get how minimum wage has an impact on the economy.

[Dwarven King]

Then how do you propose we fix poverty? Do we just sit back and watch as those that can't get higher end jobs struggle to raise a family? As far as I can tell, Sanders is the only one trying to fix it. Hell, he even wants to put people through college! Which is good...because you know...our number of college graduates is sheet compared to other countries.

[Progenitor]

So I guess, discuss Donald Trump without just saying he sucks without explanation or making jokes please

 

 

Sound familiar?

 

It's a technique by the media to discredit him.  You take ONE THING he did that you can't take seriously and then somehow have the grounds to claim everything he does can't be taken seriously.  If you know anything about the "Dean Scream" you know that this can work extraordinarily well.  he dude actually had a very solid following until that moment, at which point he was reduced to yesterday's news in less than two weeks

[Dad]

Yes it is.

 

You're worried about money, but you're wanting Sanders. This is actually hilarious. Sanders is going to fuel a lot more, or just as much, money to get all of his plans initiated. Instead of a deficit, it will be in increased taxation. And attacking Rich people in a free market is a shitty idea, as well. It would purposely be equal taxation.

 

Let's talk further about that.

 

http://usuncut.com/politics/top-economist-says-bernies-plan-will-actually-save-the-us-5-trillion/

 

 

ftr, sanders wants to increase minimum wage to 15 dollars. That's 'money to the people'.

 

All increasing minimum wage does, especially in huge amounts, is help stupid teens and hurt middle class. Every other prices rises with minimum wage, and benefits/etc. get cut in order to afford the minimum wage, while smaller businesses get forced out.

 

The poor stay just as poor, the rich stay just as rich, and the middle class lose out because (And this has already started happening in places) they have to choose either to cut hours to get benefits or lose benefits.

 

Minimum wage isn't actually beneficial like that. Sure, it is to a degree, but the higher it goes, the higher the cost of living goes and the lower the chance of getting benefits goes.

 

I'm not supporting Trump, but I am saying that Sanders is more naiive than people realize.

 

When was the last time we raised the minimum wage?  I don't know about 15 an hour, but 7.25 is not a liveable wage.  And uh, let's talk about that a little bit further.

 

http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm

[Dwarven King]

Let's talk further about that.

 

http://usuncut.com/politics/top-economist-says-bernies-plan-will-actually-save-the-us-5-trillion/

 

 

 

When was the last time we raised the minimum wage?  I don't know about 15 an hour, but 7.25 is not a liveable wage.  And uh, let's talk about that a little bit further.

 

http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm

 

I was looking for those, lulz.

 

And you're right, 7.25 isn't. 7.65 is BARELY liveable and that's minimum wage for my area. And that's only if you're single with no kids and work at least 32 hours a week. :|

 

But we don't understand economics Dad. Clearly the man who wants to dump trillions of dollars into building a wall is much better when simply fixing the legalizaton process would save us SOOO much more money and cut back on illegals.

 

But I obviously have no idea what I'm talking about.

[Tentacruel]

But should minimum wage be a livable wage? If minimum wage was 15 an hour, I wouldn't even have a job right now.

 

I'm pretty mixed on the issue myself.

[Dad]

But should minimum wage be a livable wage? If minimum wage was 15 an hour, I wouldn't even have a job right now.

 

I'm pretty mixed on the issue myself.

 

Again, I don't 100% agree with 15 an hour.  Seems a bit much.  Ten maybe twelve I think would be workable.  To rush right into 15 is my issue.  But 7.25 isn't gonna funking cut it.

[Tentacruel]

Again, I don't 100% agree with 15 an hour.  Seems a bit much.  Ten maybe twelve I think would be workable.  To rush right into 15 is my issue.  But 7.25 isn't gonna funking cut it.

Agreed. It's 8.15 where I live. Even 9 would be an improvement.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Aren't 3 major cities in the US gradually raising there minimum wage to $15 an hour anyway? 

 

LA, Seattle and San Fransisco, with the later planning on doing so by 2018? 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

They're illegals. Every moment they stay here they're committing a crime. You pro criminals mate?

 

@Barty, there's a difference between adjusting wages for inflation and just putting it to 15

[Dwarven King]

But should minimum wage be a livable wage? If minimum wage was 15 an hour, I wouldn't even have a job right now.

 

I'm pretty mixed on the issue myself.

 

Sanders doesn't want an instant jump to 15. He wants a gradual increase, which is what we need. To many people think he wants 15 the first day he becomes president.

 

They're illegals. Every moment they stay here they're committing a crime. You pro criminals mate?

 

@Barty, there's a difference between adjusting wages for inflation and just putting it to 15

 

Am I pro criminals? Not at all. Am I against stupid ideas that will ultimately ruin us financially with the possibility of civil unrest that could lead to civil war? Oh absolutely.

[Simping For Hina]

...so then why are you for Sanders? That's pretty much what might happen in a different setting. Lifting the wage would put a lot of problems into free market, cut down on proper number of jobs, and affect the class system.

 

And a lot of his other causes come from taxation as well, which I am not completely in approval for.

[cr47t]

A lot of what Trump says is, in my opinion, against many of the morals the US was founded and built upon.

The United States is a melting pot of all cultures and all peoples, including Mexicans, whom I think should be able to stay in the US and be able to cross between the US and Mexico. I personally dont think we need or should have a Great Wall of America, if you get my point. I know he has spoken on other stuff but I havent heard that yet.

Also, Trump is racist and biased from what I have gathered, as well as being accused of r**e , and I do not think such a candidate is fit for office.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Deport them regardless of the wall

[Agro]

Deporting every illegal immigrant at this point is too costly. We're basically doing that right now, anyway, and clearly it's working wonders.

 

I'd prefer the path-to-citizenship approach, since if they're documented citizens, then at that point, they're paying taxes.

 

EDIT: funk WHY DID I POST IN HERE AGAIN I THOUGHT IT WAS MISC

[Lunar Origins]

I'd prefer the path-to-citizenship approach, since if they're documented citizens, then at that point, they're paying taxes.

 

This.

 

Deporting every single illegal immigrant?  That's a pipe dream.  Only a dumbass would think they could realistically accomplish that.  That's not to say what it'd do to our international image, huh?  We're already considered quite inhumane by the rest of the world.  Deportion does nothing to help anybody.  If we're talking about American spirit, we should honestly make things easier for immigrants.  People trying to escape and find solace from their home countries are most likely not going to get far in the current process.

 

The current minimum wage being $7.25 or, well, $7.65 is just not with the times.  Adjusted for inflation, it'd easily be a dollar or two, or even three dollars more.  That's just a simple update for the times.  Prices aren't going to be immediately adjusted to match, of course, so that won't be as bad as people make it out to be.

[Simping For Hina]

This.

 

Deporting every single illegal immigrant?  That's a pipe dream.  Only a dumbass would think they could realistically accomplish that.  That's not to say what it'd do to our international image, huh?  We're already considered quite inhumane by the rest of the world.  Deportion does nothing to help anybody.  If we're talking about American spirit, we should honestly make things easier for immigrants.  People trying to escape and find solace from their home countries are most likely not going to get far in the current process.

 

The current minimum wage being $7.25 or, well, $7.65 is just not with the times.  Adjusted for inflation, it'd easily be a dollar or two, or even three dollars more.  That's just a simple update for the times.  Prices aren't going to be immediately adjusted to match, of course, so that won't be as bad as people make it out to be.

yay people know things! I actually appreciate this post and I have nothing to add.

[Agro]

Prices aren't going to be immediately adjusted to match, of course, so that won't be as bad as people make it out to be.

To add to this, if just slightly:

 

If McDonalds raises its pay from minimum wage to $15/hour, studies show that they would only need to increase the price of a bigmac by 25 cents to make up for it.

 

So the point here is obviously that even if minimum wage goes up, the cost of living doesn't actually raise at the same amount. More importantly, even if a low income individual needed to immediately put that money back into the cost of living anyway, that's still twice as much money being circulated in the economy than there was before.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I must stop this newly formed general-posting habit.

[Dad]

This.

 

Deporting every single illegal immigrant?  That's a pipe dream.  Only a dumbass would think they could realistically accomplish that.  That's not to say what it'd do to our international image, huh?  We're already considered quite inhumane by the rest of the world.  Deportion does nothing to help anybody.  If we're talking about American spirit, we should honestly make things easier for immigrants.  People trying to escape and find solace from their home countries are most likely not going to get far in the current process.

 

 

yay people know things! I actually appreciate this post and I have nothing to add.

 

This is literally what Sanders said.  So someone in this thread is a troll.

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/bernie-sanders-illegal-immigrants-reviled-by-many-for-political-gain/article/2566678

[Lunar Origins]

I don't think Daemon is actually a troll; he's disputing different points.  He's not necessarily arguing for Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders, he's stimulating discussion, as he should.  It doesn't do too much good to get so up in arms about what he says.  You can take it or leave it, but his points still remain valid and facilitate discussion.

[Simping For Hina]

This is literally what Sanders said.  So someone in this thread is a troll.

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/bernie-sanders-illegal-immigrants-reviled-by-many-for-political-gain/article/2566678

Don't consider me so. I should clarify as I have no actually priorities to any candidate, and have said nothing on Sanders behalf of Immigrants; Only what Trump is trying to accomplish. All I have said on Sanders behalf was the minimum wage problem, not in relations to Trump's campaign ideology, but with process of which it would occur and what it would affect.