jackelgull Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 If you draw this card, discard it. When there are two copies of this card in the graveyard and you draw this card; reveal it to your opponent and shuffle it back into your deck. If you draw this card five times, you win the game. This card cannot be added to the hand by a card effect. I hope this is the correct section to post Alternate Win conditions. What do you guys think of this card? It is essentially a -1 everytime you draw it, but if you manage to take a -5 you win the game. I wonder if that's too little or too much. I set it at 5 times because I don't know if I could make this card limited and three times seems too low if people run three copies of this in their deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Alternate win cards aren't exactly liked in this section, just so you know. Yeah, multiple copies would alleviate the 5x thing, but suppose you could make this card go face-up in your Deck or something, so the multiple copies thing isn't worth it. (With that in mind, try not to design cards that are intended to be on the ban list) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackelgull Posted October 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 How does requiring this card be face up in the deck make more copies of this card less attractive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutrality Man Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 How does requiring this card be face up in the deck make more copies of this card less attractive? Goes back face-down: can't tell it's a different card, increments count with each draw of each copy. Goes Back face-up: each card has an individual counter... that falls apart the moment you draw the second one. Honestly, I'd make the first one banish all the other copies as a cost to avoid that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 The idea is that if you are that worried about this card's win condition being abused by multiple copies, keeping it face-up should reduce the chances of that occurring. As it is now, every time you draw a copy of this card, regardless if it's the one you initially activated or not, it'll increment the counter by 1. Another option would be to ditch any other copies of that card in the Deck once activated (either Graveyard or banish), so there isn't a chance you'll draw the extras to fast-forward this card's 5x thing. ---Again though, alt win conditions are not well liked in this section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackelgull Posted October 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Updated the effect so it requires two copies of this card in the graveyard to activate, and decreased the number of times required to draw to three. I think that's fair. Or am I underestimating the draw engines in Yugioh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutrality Man Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Updated the effect so it requires two copies of this card in the graveyard to activate, and decreased the number of times required to draw to three. I think that's fair. Or am I underestimating the draw engines in Yugioh?You're underestimating draw engines in YuGiOh. I once drew my entire Deck TWICE in a Single Turn. Thank you Localized Tornado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackelgull Posted October 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 You're underestimating draw engines in YuGiOh. I once drew my entire Deck TWICE in a Single Turn. Thank you Localized Tornado. How? That said, I've changed the win condition back to drawing this card five times, so anyone who plays this card better have a damn good draw engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutrality Man Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 How? That said, I've changed the win condition back to drawing this card five times, so anyone who plays this card better have a damn good draw engine. Quasar-Eyes Exodia .dek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astolfo Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Or you could just not make an alt-win card. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackelgull Posted October 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Sometimes you just gotta follow your heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astolfo Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Sometimes you just gotta follow your heart.Not if you want to actually run good cards you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 It's not necessarily bad to make an alternative win card, but this doesn't feel all that different from Exodia. It's definitely harder to pull off since you automatically lose this card the moment you get it (which irl may be hard to enforce; you can just draw this card and pretend you drew anything else for whatever reason) and thus can't give you a draw if you decide later to shuffle the card back into your Deck for, say, Magical Mallet. Not sure if (good) Exodia Decks actually run Mallet, but people might run it anyway. So you have to draw this 7 times, though 2 of them may be avoided if you mill that, but I'm not convinced milling would be useful in its Deck. The biggest offense, IMO, is that the card is designed to give you a win without actually interacting with your opponent. To win with this, you're either going to activate lots and lots of drawing cards, play cards that prevent yourself from taking damage such as Waboku and Swift Scarecrow, or a mix of both (Exodia more or less does this too). Your opponent has little to nothing to do while you sit around and either draw or say "I take no damage." Compare that to the majority of other Decks out there, which have the goal of reducing your opponent's Life Points to 0. Most of the time, they do so in a way where the opponent's cards can disrupt them, while at the same time, their cards can disrupt the opponent's strategies (or just beat them). The interaction with your opponent is a key reason why people play multi-player card games like Yugioh, and this just isn't made to do that. Alternative win conditions can be created in a way that does interact with the opponent, such as Vennominaga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackelgull Posted October 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 You could do that, but why would you want to? The win conditions require two copies of this in the graveyard. If you do not use this card's effect to get it in the graveyard, you will need to discard it somehow, which will reveal to your opponent that you had this card in your hand and didn't discard as you were supposed to. And your right about this card making Yugioh a game of solitaire. I was wondering if I should put some sort of condition that banishes this card if an opponent does something lime activate a spell, or special summon a monster from the extra deck. Something restrictive enough that it doesn't mean the card is impossible to keep in the grave, but common enough that there is a threat from the opponent that the player is forced to acknowledge. Or is this card inherently limiting of player interaction? Thank you for your thoughtful critique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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