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[OCG Meta] Where are they now?

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VCR_CAT Apprentice

VCR_CAT

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So, the OCG Banlist made a lot of huge changes, and I wanna spark a lil' discussion regarding their meta and what you think is going to happen. If you're curious as to what the meta looked like before, you can check out this image stolen without permission from Winter:

 

[spoiler=Previous Format]

7240L7X.jpg

 

 

If you want the exact hits, you can check out the banlist thread here: http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/349153-ocg-april-2016-limit-regulation/

 

 

So, to kick it off, I'm going to point out what we know for certain:

- Dracopals/Pepe have been utterly neutered, with most, if not all of their significant cards seeing some kind of hit.

- Burning Abyss has seen a decent hit; with Dante, Scarm, and TGU all receiving some attention.

- Monarchs have seen a respectable hit; with their E-Tele engine being struck down, and Dominion and Pantheism both being hit.

- Infernoids received a slap on the wrist with Reasoning and Monster Gate both being hit.

- Blue Eyes/Dragons received a boon with Dragon Shrine and Rejuvination both receiving some slack on the list.

- DARK decks received boons with CCV and Allure both being let go from the list.

 

 

So, here's my speculation:

  • Dracopals will no longer be a thing. Pe-Variants and DracoPals are dead for all we know. Performapals may see some appearance; but this I doubt.
  • Monarchs received a huge hit to their consistency and their engine, and will need to think of something creative or perhaps a new engine to bring the deck into relevancy. If they don't, the deck can be considered as dead as Dracopals.
  • Burning Abyss, while receiving a respectable hit, also received some boons with CCV and Allure. I don't think they will be rendered irrelevant like Dracopals, but they will probably have a difficult time maintaining and high position.
  • Infernoids took a bit of a nasty hit with both Reasoning and Monster Gate getting hit. I don't think it will kill them outright, but they will probably see a smaller position on the tier list this coming format.
  • D/D, while being 5th best, might pull a Kozmo. With every better seeing a significant hit, there's ample room for D/D to slip in and take a very high position in the pecking order. Not only has everything better been hit, but D/D also received some boons in CCV and Allure of Darkness.
  • Dragons, likewise, will see the boost that Konami claimed they would. Just like D/D, everything better saw a hit, and the deck received a solid boost from the banlist itself.
  • Phantom Knights present themselves as a sleeper deck. I can't claim much knowledge in their match-ups against Dragons or D/D, but Allure and CCV may show some surprise tops from this deck and its variants as a sort of underdog contender.
  • The Old Guard (Nekroz/Qli/Shaddoll) see themselves in an interesting place. I'm not sure how these decks will react to the new list; some may see some boosts, but seeing their placements in the existing formats and how they relate to the decks that will most likely see the biggest climb in the Tier List (Dragons and D/D) leads me to believe that their placements in the hierarchy will see little change.
  • Metalphosis present a lot of promise. Dropping on April 9th, Metalphosis has a lot of potential in how much good support the deck has access to, combined with the fact that it will be one of the only, if not the only, competitive pendulum deck in the format. The deck is consistent, has strong value in its plays, has solid support, and the kicker is: it's not even all been announced yet. Depending on what cards remain in this archetype, Metalphosis could very well speed towards the top; but this depends on how it matches up against the existing decks.

 

So, with these thoughts down, I think the Tier List MIGHT look something like this:

(deck placements in the tiers are in no particular order; I'm just saying what tier they might be in)

Tier 1:

D/D

Blue Eyes/Felgrand

Metalphosis

 

Tier 2:

Burning Abyss

Phantom Knight Variants

 

Tier 3:

Nekroz

Qli

Shaddoll

Infernoid

 

 

Again, this is all speculation. The banlist was just released and there's only so much I can predict or know about the OCG; which has shown that it can be a difficult-to-predict format. Ultimately we'll have to see what happens, but I THINK this might be what happens.

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Ryusei the Morning Star Rising Star

Ryusei the Morning Star

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All I've ever wanted is for people to really give OCG a chance. Really impressive VCR

 

I do disagree a little however. I think Djinn Locking BA can give Dragon's a pause, and Allure really does help Monarchs. Ultimaya Monarchs & 15 ED Monarchs have been accepted as the best deck so far. It's a lot harder to pilot which is why it's not used as much. The Hip Hippo engine post TDl I think will help Monarchs in the end.

 

Dragons can however get around the Djinn Lock if they take to the Storm4th-DarkFlare engine to make up for the limited Ravine. And the CED-#100 relationship could help too.

 

I think you're forgetting a few sleeper decks like Wind-Ups and Rescue Rabbit.

 

Tier 1:

D/D

Blue Eyes/Felgrand

Metalphosis

Burning Abyss

Monarch

Phantom Knight Variants

 

Tier 2:

 

Wind-UP

Dino Rabbit

Nekroz

Qli

Shaddoll

Infernoid

Six Samurai

 

Tier 3:

 

Irrelevant

 

Amorphage and Dark Heros are the sleepers IMO

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Ryusei the Morning Star Rising Star

Ryusei the Morning Star

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Quick question, what part of Blue-Eyes is now banned, and where does OCG apply?

 

*could never remember difference between Yugioh's OCG and TCG*

As far as the TriForce is concerned

 

Ravine @1 OCG @2 TCG

Super Rejuv @2 OCG @0 TCG

Shrine @3 TCG & OCG

 

Chaos Emperor Dragon is currently @3 in OCG, but banned in TCG

 

REDMD is @1 in both formats

 

OCG has Card Destruction as an added "bonus" personally 2 risky to use, but one might disagree on that

 

Then "staples" like Avarice, Duster, and Reborn

 

Otherwise they're about the same

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VCR_CAT Apprentice

VCR_CAT

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Regarding WATER, as I'm not talking with some people, among those other rogue/sleeper decks; those just weren't on my radar as much. The question isn't whether the decks are viable, but more so that I don't have a good enough idea to say what's going to happen to them. Each weren't good enough to gain enough consistent tops to garner notoriety like D/D's or Blue-Eyes were able to, and it's way too much of a gamble to say if they'll break that mold or remain where they are for the next format.

 

For WATER; the tier 1 match-ups are mixed. Dragons have access to Blue-Eyes White Spirit Dragon, who becomes an immediate problem for WATERs; besides the fact that Dragons not only are able to keep up with WATER's aggro game, but also have a respectable Turn-1 potential that doesn't bode well with how WATER favors Turn-2. D/D is just simply a well balanced deck in this regard, and for the tools that WATER has access to, they don't have anything that counters them in any significant manner. The lower tiers are more of a mystery in all honesty.

 

With all due respect, Winter, you give Shaddolls too much credit in their current state. Their only good tools to combat the future meta are Winda and Shekky; and in the cases of both of them, they're easily dealt with by most other respectable decks. I honestly don't see them going above tier 3. I respect that you've seen success with them using DMoC; but if there's one thing I've learned with Trains, it's that even if you're very successful with a deck, this doesn't mean that their success in the meta will reflect your success with the deck.

 

Regarding Wind-Ups, Six Sams, and Dino Rabbits; I cannot see these going beyond rogue. None of these decks have seen any significant gains in terms of cards or banlist changes to fix the real reasons they're unable to gain enough consistent tops to garner notoriety in the metagame. I chalk each deck into the same spot as Gagaga Mecha Phantom Beasts: They might gain a top or two; but they won't do it consistently.

 

And like I said; Monarchs need to be creative with their builds to maintain an upper-level position. If there's any reason I didn't place them on my predicted list, it's because I don't know what to expect from the deck. They completely have the potential to bounce back from the large hits against them, but what that looks like and how it will impact the rest I have no idea.

 

While Djinn-lock may be strong, the hits against them are too significant for me to believe that it won't have a significant impact against the deck. Again, the final results can prove me wrong; but from here and now, it doesn't look like they go above tier 2.

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Ryusei the Morning Star Rising Star

Ryusei the Morning Star

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I think the TCG's Kozmo syndrome can explain a lot of things. The "Gain" from the list is the aggressive murder of Dracopals and the incarceration of BA&Monarchs

 

What decks like Water, Dolls, and such gained is that the major decks shitting on them have been eradicated. That being said I can agree that these might not be ruling the meta game, but they certainly have made an impact.

 

As for Dolls, I wish DMoC was my idea, but it's clearly topped before. I wouldn't even give up on Trains, they did score second in OCG nationals after all!

 

This is shaping up to be one of the better OCG formats, potentially rivaling February 2014 even!

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VCR_CAT Apprentice

VCR_CAT

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I think the TCG's Kozmo syndrome can explain a lot of things. The "Gain" from the list is the aggressive murder of Dracopals and the incarceration of BA&Monarchs

 

What decks like Water, Dolls, and such gained is that the major decks shitting on them have been eradicated. That being said I can agree that these might not be ruling the meta game, but they certainly have made an impact.

 

As for Dolls, I wish DMoC was my idea, but it's clearly topped before. I wouldn't even give up on Trains, they did score second in OCG nationals after all!

 

This is shaping up to be one of the better OCG formats, potentially rivaling February 2014 even!

 

This is all true; it's just that, when it comes to the rogue tier, there's no telling what's going to rise from the ashes and what's going to stay there. But, this should be an interesting format.

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Tinkerer Mentor

Tinkerer

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I kinda feel weird for sticking my nose here but... Is there a possibility of a resurgence of grindy/advantage-building decks?

 

With the strongest pendulums put down, one may be able to concentrate on dealing with 1-2 monsters at a time rather than a recurring swarm.... and that's IF those monsters can get/stay on the field in the first place.

 

The following assessments are simply based on my knowledge of the decks and my (admittedly limited) perception of OCG. Let me know if I'm overlooking something.

 

[spoiler Deck Assessments]Blue-Eyes and DD appear to have the highest amount of power and a good amount of consistency and they also seem like they're likely to have excellent turn 1s. However, they might struggle if set to t2 and they face hefty backrow. If not up against significant backrow, though, (or they TwiTwi or HFD) these decks should be able to deliver mightily.

 

BA and Monarchs suffered consistency hits but depending on how things fall they can still end up pretty well off. Allure to 3 certainly helped both. Monarchs definitely are hurt more by this as I can't see an effective build that would allow both a good t1 or t2 (then again, I'm not familiar with those variants mentioned by Winter). BA are a bit more toolboxy so they might be able to bounce back better and can have effective t1s or t2s. Both are extremely weak vs effect negation though.

 

I'm a bit more biased towards PK, but they look really good with this list. They ultimately have a WAY lower power level than the previous decks, but they can grind and hold out vs high power/low spam decks like the previously mentioned and they have strong t1s or t2s. Allure and CCV getting unlimited only helped them further.

 

 

Considering my thoughts on the prior decks, I can see WATER becoming somewhat viable, but it would have to be tuned to be more defensive. Tellarknights might have a resurgence maybe. Metalphosis could be a thing, but more of the archetype needs to be shown. Amorphage could be a possible nuisance if someone can figure out how to get it working without Dracos/Wavering. HAT-like variants/Volcanics/Yosenju all could be potent though they all have their own individual weaknesses...

 

Well, simply put, OCG looks like it's got quite a bit of variety off this list.

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Tinkerer Mentor

Tinkerer

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Mfw I've got no clue as to whether my points are valid or not...

 

As another thought though, Shadow Imprisoning Mirror looks really devastating in Blue Eyes/Felgrand as a side, shutting down the other 2 heavy power decks as well as BA & PK, while for other decks it can stick with CED, Dark Matter, and other main deck DARKs for more consistency/power.

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Ryusei the Morning Star Rising Star

Ryusei the Morning Star

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Keep in mind these are two Locals-level tournaments before a format has even begun; it doesn't say much as to what's going to happen.

True!

 

I think we can move Phantom BA and Blue Eyes up to T1 though and maybe adjust Monarchs to t2? The old guard seems pretty firmly fixed at tier 2 except maybe Qlis, which getting a Scout limit next list would likely fix up

 

But then again, these are small events so they might not be entirely indicative 

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