New TCG Banlist [08/04/2016]

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Banned:

Damajuggler

Plushfire

Ptolemaeus

Chicken Game

Wavering Eyes

 

Limited:

Luster Pendulum

Monkeyboard

Skullcrobat Joker

Wisdom-Eye Magician

Norden

Thousand-Eyes Restrict

Ignister

Draco Face-off

Reasoning

Upstart Goblin

 

Semi-Limited:

Debris Dragon

Allure of Darkness

E-Teleport

 

No longer restricted:

Dark Magician of Chaos

Tragoedia

Advanced Ritual Art

Crush Card Virus

Not a bad list, let me begin by saying that. But that view largely depends on you viewpoint of where you want the game to go. If you wanted an OCG style shake up, a clean slate of new meta. 

 

This list failed you.

 

If you wanted the top deck kicked in the knee. This list obliged.

 

So let's get into it.

 

Juggler & Plushfire - I said it when OCG did it, and I'll say it again now. These are NOT the problems you're looking for. Plush is extraordinarily passive on its own, and largely needs other cards be it Luster (fixed by a limit) or Wizard and Wavering (statistically unfavored by a limit). Other cases like Iris and Ignister do exist, but are constrained by the fact that with a limited Plush, you're not going to run many targets for it. The utility of Plush rapidly erodes bar cards like Gusto or Avarice.

 

Jugger has a little too much utility in one card, but I can see both it and Plush returning to 1 in the future (like a year based on precedent) Two Bad Bans

 

Ptolo - R4nk has no business summoning R5nk. And this card could only ever get better with cards like Azz coming out eventually. A Good Ban

 

Chicken Game - The card was degeneracy waiting to happen at three, and I for one will not be crying for it's ban. But objectively it's balanced in that it's a reverse upstart, that unless played in a deck with other Fields, could benefit both players. I understand it was hit to weaken Monarchs, and that's where my problem arises. Life Equalizer is NOT a healthy card to have legal. Is Chicken Game? Debatable. But it's a short-falling on TCG's side not to hit LE as well -  An Acceptable Ban

 

Wavering Eyes - This is the first of three major ideological bans in TCG. OCG banned Monkeyboard, and left Wavering Eyes at 1. Wavering Effect four is meaningless now, and it can serve as a side card vs Pendulums decks. Wavering wars are statistically unlikely. TCG left Monkey at 1, and banned WE. I personally think that, atleast in OCG, both could exist at 1, but if I was forced to choose, a one card scale with no restrictions on what it can summon (hence the departure from Scout) is more degenerate. But neither are "wrong" per say. - An Acceptable Ban

 

Note: There is a LOT of misinformation about this card being throw around. OCG Odd-Eyes Majespecter Magipals didn't remain or became a threat because of this card, they remain a threat because of the deadly r4nk and r7nk toolbox bolstered by an infinity clone + Kerin. It's easy to scapegoat, but that does not make it correct to do so.

 

Luster Pendulum - With cards like Ariadne and Plush, as well as being able to make P-Sorc live (pop, add another Sorc, scale, summon 1st sorc) and as a the main way into Ignister, I think Luster Pendulum offered a little too much for the deck. A limit is very fair, although sad because of the new Dracoslayer - A Good Limit

 

Monkeyboard - I think this is fair (considering WE), an errata to only be able to Pendulum pals would have balanced this card. But I'm fairly confident based on how the pals are being phased out in OCG (like people are dropping Sorc) that it could coexist with WE at 1 safely. A little problematic with Zeph seeing that TCG still has Geddon at 3, but I don't think this list wanted to eradicate pals like OCG did  - A Good Limit

 

Crobat - 2015's Stratos, it ties three different decks together. Limit is well deserved - A Good Limit

 

Insight Magician - Taken from OCG, this limit is perfect, while it works against Pendulum call, an wildcard scale in pendulums isn't healthy. This is another area where we can see the difference between OCG and TCG. OCG wanted pendulums as tier 2, and they hit pendulum call to make sure of that. TCG just wants to weaken the current decks instead of kneecapping them. It's subjective which is better - A Good Limit

 

Norden - This card has been bothering me for a long time. For Three formats, OCG had IF at one with Noden at 3. Noden was never run at value above 1. But a deck like Atlanean doesn't need multiple Nodens to get a crazy board made. Multiple IF's on the other can can be sacrificed for Twin Twister if needed. Noden being spared in TCG, but not in OCG, might have to do with Super Poly and Azzathoth being legal in OCG. I think the safer thing to do would be to have limited IF as well as Noden (because Fusion-Gate Noden FTKs do exist. I don't think this will fix any problem if Insta-Noden was deemed a problem (my opinion it's not).

 

Guess it gives me a little false hope that OCG will unban Norden too.

 

- An Intriguing, but meaningless Limit

 

Restrict - Card is fine in OCG, increases the ceiling of decks and can double as removal. Cool plays with CoTH exist. The situation would have been more skillful if you only had 1 IF and had to choose between Noden and Restrict, but w/e. PK Fire(s) should be able to have fun with card - A Good Limit

 

Ignister - A great limit, this card has Trish level power. While people say 3 or 0 for ED monster, in cases like Ignister, you can never really have enough. The removal is too good seeing you can +3 off your opponent - A Good Limit

 

Clash - Theoretical +0, functional +1, the ability to complete scales or make field presence is amazing. This is another great limit taken from OCG - A Good Limit

 

Reasoning - I've always despised both this and Monster Gate. They raise the ceiling of decks and do it in a lucksacky way. People rushing to defend infernoids. Don't they're dragon rulers that inherent summon, have field effects that matter and double as DD Crow. With more and more decks having varied levels such as as Monarch, SQ, and Kozmo this card could only ever get better. Also DMoC - A Good Limit

 

Upstart Goblin - Finally. The deck size if anything needs to be increased not decreased, adding another 1k LP means nothing. That's the logic that justified Snatch Steal back in the day, we're at the point in the game where an extra draw can usually offset a gift of 1k to the opponent. Unlike Chicken Game is honestly doesn't hurt the player either. If one needed to be banned, I would have swapped game and Upstart. Also thank god solitaire decks lost out in this. Really hoping OCG will follow suit eventually - A Great Limit

 

Debris Dragon - Late A Semi Limit that should have happened a year ago

 

Allure of Darkness - Didn't really see much play in OCG at two. Shaddolls, PK Fires, Monarchs might need it. Kozmo have a decent use of it with Kozmo town. I don't see it breaking anything. A Good Semi-Limit

 

Emergency Teleport - OCG doesn't even have Kozmo and they limited this card. This is obvious and shameful pandering on TCG's side. Dante was the most expensive card on OCG side, and it got limited without a reprint. You cannot even use money as an excuse because they already got value out of Tele with Gold. This is greed trying to stretch to SHIV. Reminds me of that greatly impactful Nekroz Brio Semi-limit TCG did a while back A Terrible Semi-Limit

 

DMoC - TCG doesn't have nearly the range of power-spells that OCG has. It's fine, especially considering Reasoning and Gate remain at 1 and Construct banned - A Good Unlimit

 

Tragodia - Late

 

Crush Card Virus - Late

 

Advanced Ritual Art - Late (no complaints on any of them though)

 

It goes back to what I said in the start, if TCG's goal was to brush up the format, but keep it as it. They did well. If they wanted to change the format. This list is terrible. I would like OCG to adopt a few of these hits though *looks at Upstart*

Well, Monarchs got off way too lightly and will probably smash everything, but I like how they're smashing everything pendulum-related as if to say they want to tone down the mechanic a little. Also, Wavering's ban makes it 4 for 4 in my memory of cards that were sided out being banned. Turns out, if you want a card banned just agree to side it out in a big event.

Funny, agreeing to side out Monkeyboard would have done it too 

 

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

As I've pointed out, for Monarchs ALONE, the OCG hit those and... deck still functions totally fine. TCG tried another route, nailing consistency instead of power.

 

You're right, and also wrong. 

 

Right- Monarch remains a deck

 

Wrong- "Totally Fine" Going from #3/2 ->#4/5 with a completely different play style is...that's like saying Rulers were totally fine after Ravine got banned...or like saying Pendulums are totally fine after the April OCG list.  Yes they top, but they can't hold a candle to the new Top 2.

 

I think it's deplorable that Dominion was not hit.

 

 

 

The power of monarchs remains the same in OCG. What OCG lost was the floodgate aspect of Monarchs. Brilliant Narchs can get you back your Panth quite often.

 

The "power" of Narchs lies with the Two God Narchs, Storm4th, and Kuraz, not with Dominion, Game, Upstart, and Panth

 

 

That all being said, I'm rather pleased with this list, my Dolls got quite a boost ^_^

 

 

 I'll probably just be playing around with OCG stuff until something better for the TCG comes along. 

 

And, gonna be honest, I think you guys have too high hopes for PK/BA. They didn't do comparatively as well here as they did in the OCG, and I really don't see them pulling ahead of Monarchs or Kozmos. Draco and/or Pals are going to find a new norm to play and the status quo will probably be maintained if that's the case. 

 

Come over to YGO pro side mate, you should be able to get an OCG duel pretty fast (and most of them aren't shitty players either)

 

As for PK Fires, TCG still has 3 MC2, so Dark Law plays should be easy to make esp with Key Beetle. I venture to say the deck will be Better in TCG than in OCG

[TF2_The_Scout]

Wait, why did Chicken Game get banned?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Wait, why did Chicken Game get banned?

Cause TCG didn't want to ban life equalizer and apperently it's a "pre-emptive" hit to Odd Eyes hybrids...why you wouldn't hit pendulum call (as OCG has shown the deck is alive and thriving with both MC and wisdom limited) is beyond me

Upstart is the more degenerate one anyway

[Metalhead Dragon]

I feel like Konami is uberly trolling us with this banlist, just got Chicken Game and Wavering Eyes for my Deskbots too. Well.. I guess Wavering Eyes was pretty overpowered, but now theres barely anything to destroy pendulums again, except for Twin Twisters and some of those cards that pop spells.

[Metalhead Dragon]

Upstart to 1 is seriously stupid. Its like the TCG Konami really doesnt want all those lower tier decks to function. Reasoning at 1 kind of bugs me too, because my Gren Maju deck is useless now, but its to limit Kozmos, so thats respectible. I still think some of these limits/bans are stupid. Im sure cards like Cyber-Stein would not cause a problem being unlimited, neither would a lot of the cards there. They are just now getting the memo that Restrict isnt that overpowered anymore.

 

The best thing is Monarchs didnt get hit at all.

[IQuitDolphin]

Upstart to 1 is seriously stupid. Its like the TCG Konami really doesnt want all those lower tier decks to function. Reasoning at 1 kind of bugs me too, because my Gren Maju deck is useless now, but its to limit Kozmos, so thats respectible. I still think some of these limits/bans are stupid. Im sure cards like Cyber-Stein would not cause a problem being unlimited, neither would a lot of the cards there. They are just now getting the memo that Restrict isnt that overpowered anymore.

 

The best thing is Monarchs didnt get hit at all.

 

1) ....Mind giving us reasoning to back up your claim? Baseless statements with no arguments behind them is bad.

2) Konami doesn't care about rouge unless Konami wants to make them tier 1-2. They want money more than customer satisfaction. Also, you talk as though every rouge deck is dead now. They aren't; their archetypes will always be intact and new engines will always come out to boost them. Also, rouge was never meant to put up a big fight toward the meta unless matchups are good in the first place.

3) Konami doesn't care about Gren Maju. Gren Maju isn't meta nor sleeper rouge; Konami's banlist caters to the meta.

4) Cyber Stein would cause pretty big issues in TCG with the monsters it can summon, and it will severely inhibit Konami's ability to make future fusions if they do release it off the list.

 

5) Monarchs took an indirect consistency hit.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

4) Cyber Stein would cause pretty big issues in TCG with the monsters it can summon, and it will severely inhibit Konami's ability to make future fusions if they do release it off the list.

 

5) Monarchs took an indirect consistency hit

>Pays 5k for exterio, opponent goes Farmgirl into DD

 

:))))))))))))

 

Stein is trash in OCG, it'll be Trash in TCG

 

Now you'll have OCG monarchs from last format, you know the one that didn't run either game or upstart and was still the third best deck in OCG vs full power dracopals

 

:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[IQuitDolphin]

>Pays 5k for exterio, opponent goes Farmgirl into DD

 

:))))))))))))

 

You act as though Kozmo hard-draw DD every time. Also it's implying that Stein is the only play you make that turn.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You act as though Kozmo hard-draw DD every time. Also it's implying that Stein is the only play you make that turn.

What I'm saying is you're over hyping a card and underhyping a deck

 

 

This good sir, was NOT a fun deck to play against. If you think it's a healthy thing to have in the game as is, then I can't say much (yeah Ik -1 Tele and no Duster)

[Tinkerer]

2) Konami doesn't care about rouge unless Konami wants to make them tier 1-2. They want money more than customer satisfaction. Also, you talk as though every rouge deck is dead now. They aren't; their archetypes will always be intact and new engines will always come out to boost them. Also, rouge was never meant to put up a big fight toward the meta unless matchups are good in the first place.

3) Konami doesn't care about Gren Maju. Gren Maju isn't meta nor sleeper rouge; Konami's banlist caters to the meta.

Sorry, my inner editor wants me to point out that the word is spelled "rogue".

[IQuitDolphin]

Sorry, my inner editor wants me to point out that the word is spelled "rogue".

 

Good to know....

 

----

 

Stein making Last Warrior locks down most decks, forcing them to topdeck Raigeki/Dark Hole, 1-3/35-40

Stein making Exterio locks down Dracopal matchup if they can't hard-draw Eccentrick.

[vla1ne]

Emergency Teleport is all that Quantums have in the way of consistency in the S/T department. Hitting that down to 2 alone hurts a bit, but Chicken Game was also a card that they make a very liberal use of, and on top of that Upstart was the runner up. No, the deck might not be dead yet, but hitting all of those was a significant blow to the deck's consistency. At the moment, you're actually forced to run 3 Blue Layers, and that's not exactly preferable.

 

reasoning. it was the strongest card in infernoids, and was clearly the best support card in the deck. it got hit to 1. E-tele is still at 2 at least. not saying quantums aren't hurt, but they aren't dead yet. blend them into something else if you want to make them work, like shaddolls or something, they absorb everything anyways. Except light, R.I.P. Construct .

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Good to know....

 

----

 

Stein making Last Warrior locks down most decks, forcing them to topdeck Raigeki/Dark Hole, 1-3/35-40

Stein making Exterio locks down Dracopal matchup if they can't hard-draw Eccentrick.

Veiler...any of the solemns...what is with the mentality of wanting everything to come easy????

 

The only way TCG is gonna get better is if you start dealing with problem in a way not called the banlist, dumbing everything down to the point where you can deal with everything w/ just you main is the hallmark of a shitty format (not saying TCG is atm, but if y'all think Stein is the monster under the bed, then we're getting there)

 

TCG did a fair bit right, there's really no shame in accepting that the way they dealt with Monarchs wasn't one of them. This consistency hit BS doesn't hold water

[Tinkerer]

Now that I've already posted, I might as well ask. WHY do people think the banlist didn't hit Monarchs/Kozmo (also FTK Decks) more directly? I can't imagine them milking the former two decks much longer and they don't seem to be promoting anything in particular either. With SHIV right around the corner, I'd have expected them to leave a bigger void with this list.

[Slinky]

The mentality of the TCG is that counters to a card don't offset its brokenness unless the counters are easily accessible through consistent means (IE: heavily searchable or in the extra deck, Veiler falls under neither category).

 

And yes, Cyber Stein can effectively end matches immediately.

 

Exterio flat out kills any pendulum match-up

Last Warrior kills Kozmo.

 

Cyber Stein is effectively Pay 5000 to win the game if opponent doesn't have Veiler. And that isn't a healthy card to have around, even if nobody will use it.

[vla1ne]

Veiler...any of the solemns...what is with the mentality of wanting everything to come easy????

 

The only way TCG is gonna get better is if you start dealing with problem in a way not called the banlist, dumbing everything down to the point where you can deal with everything w/ just you main is the hallmark of a shitty format (not saying TCG is atm, but if y'all think Stein is the monster under the bed, then we're getting there)

 

TCG did a fair bit right, there's really no shame in accepting that the way they dealt with Monarchs wasn't one of them. This consistency hit BS doesn't hold water

i don't fully agree, but I do agree. cyber stein is definitely not the monster it's cracked up to be all the time, but it is one of the most sack cards in existence. a successful activation o his effect, even once, is enough to completely lock most decks out of their preffered playstyle thanks to the existence of monsters like exterio and last warrior. saying that there are outs to the card like veiler and solemn does not mean that it'd be healthy for the game as a whole to have it running around, even at 1. personally, i think it would do well with a trial run in the manner of snatch steal, so that we see what ignorant combos people can come up with when he's off the list. and deal with him accordingly.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The mentality of the TCG is that counters to a card don't offset its brokenness unless the counters are easily accessible through consistent means (IE: heavily searchable or in the extra deck, Veiler falls under neither category)

Pretty sure Ariadne makes Solemns pretty searchable. So the idea is that Stein can maybe give you g1?

 

Cause you're starting g2 regardless, and they're likely siding it out....

 

The OCG mentality is to play around cards (reasonably, like Azz-Ptolo was a nogo)

 

+don't y'all play Kaijus anyway

[Slinky]

Pretty sure Ariadne makes Solemns pretty searchable. So the idea is that Stein can maybe give you g1?

 

The idea is summoning it turn 1 can infinitely sway the game into your favor if there is no out. All from a single card and a measly cost of 5k.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

And yes, Cyber Stein can effectively end matches immediately.

 

End Matches? Didn't know Cyber Stein can summon Victory Dragon off the Forbidden list....

 

You MIGHT get game 1 if you're deck is totally unprepared. But Arch is already and amazing scale and has so much utility that getting it shouldn't be that much of a hassle. So it make the Dracopal match up a bit hard, THE HORROR, a match up got harder

 

If you start, you should be able to easily be able to out stein, if you go second, you have a 500 atk funk sitting there...y'all are really terrified about the wrong card IMO

i don't fully agree, but I do agree. cyber stein is definitely not the monster it's cracked up to be all the time, but it is one of the most sack cards in existence. a successful activation o his effect, even once, is enough to completely lock most decks out of their preffered playstyle thanks to the existence of monsters like exterio and last warrior. saying that there are outs to the card like veiler and solemn does not mean that it'd be healthy for the game as a whole to have it running around, even at 1. personally, i think it would do well with a trial run in the manner of snatch steal, so that we see what ignorant combos people can come up with when he's off the list. and deal with him accordingly.

I'm say that Bold is good for the game. You should be put in placed outside your comfort zone, that's what demonstrates good deck building (again to a reasonable level)

[Kaiji]

camt u just make utopia the lightning and end the cyber stein nig's career

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The bottom line is this is a stasis quo list.

 

The top brass really hasn't shifted around much. Please stop pretending that an Upstart limit will hurt Monarchs in the slightest or the Tele semi on Kozmo

 

You're insulting your intelligence by doing so

 

It's not a bad list if you liked the old meta, but wanted it slower, it's a trash list if you wanted a new meta

[Slinky]

camt u just make utopia the lightning and end the cyber stein nig's career

 

No, because Last Warrior prevents summons.

 

and in pendulum match-ups, they generally need to pendulum summon or have a very specific set of monsters to R4, making Exterio a lock to prevent an R4 from happening.

 

And Winter, the point of the game isn't to force your opponent into a state where they absolutely cannot play unless they draw X card to out Y card. And its massively unfortunate that have gone down that route. Hell, even Kozmo don't auto lose to IIW, as they still have various plays.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

camt u just make utopia the lightning and end the cyber stein nig's career

I suppose the argument to be made is they're gonna do something like Exterio set 3 solemns or something akin to that

 

or that getting 2 lv 4's out is more effort that they should have to put into removing a card

 

And you won't have plays vs Exterio and Last why? See that's what I don't get. Neither Exterio or Last is that amazing anymore, last maybe OCG has more backrow, the argument can be made, but exterio really isn't much diff between TCG and OCG

[Slinky]

Again, using Kozmo and Dracopal as examples

 

Summon Last Warrior vs. Kozmo.

 

Kozmo literally turns into draw Dark Hole/Raigeki or bust. They are completely shut off from the game, because they have nothing to summon. And no, adding more "dark holes/raigeki" or similar cards is not going to curb that issue.

 

Vs Dracopal, Exterio is again, forcing an out or they lose, in this case, Archfiend Eccentrick, which I should remind you, they don't even run 3-of last I checked, though that might change with this list. Exterio has an additional weakness of being strike'able, but you also have to sit there for a turn and hope to god the opponent doesn't kill you first, so that isn't necessarily a good option either. Adding more Eccentrick could potentially help, but Eccentrick effectively lacks means of tutoring it into immediately outing Exterio, which is again, a problem. Because if you do try to tutor it, you generally have to wait a turn to use it, which brings you back into the same scenario as Solemn Strike.

 

This is all assuming T1 btw. The point is, Cyber-Stein is literally 1 card that can decide games /on his own/. ONE CARD. Its a one-card play, that can either be solidified with more backrow, or various floodgates to make the play even more stronger than what it already was.

[vla1ne]

End Matches? Didn't know Cyber Stein can summon Victory Dragon off the Forbidden list....

 

You MIGHT get game 1 if you're deck is totally unprepared. But Arch is already and amazing scale and has so much utility that getting it shouldn't be that much of a hassle. So it make the Dracopal match up a bit hard, THE HORROR, a match up got harder

 

If you start, you should be able to easily be able to out stein, if you go second, you have a 500 atk f*** sitting there...y'all are really terrified about the wrong card IMO

I'm say that Bold is good for the game. You should be put in placed outside your comfort zone, that's what demonstrates good deck building (again to a reasonable level)

the issue is that it can lock out multiple things. LW prevents summons, exterio prevents spell and traps, that's 3 avenues of play, locked right then and there. and all from one card. that's the issue. it's not just the stopping of preferred playstyles, there's a lot of things that lock preferred playstyles, it's the versatility to lock multiple avenues of play off of one card. not every deck has an easy out game 1, and in game 2, even after you side more outs, the next factor that kicks in is that cyber stein is splashable, any and every deck can drop him, meaning that you not only have to contend with cyber stein, but whatever your opponent is running that he happens to be splashed into.

 

i still say it should have it's day in the light so that aromages and D/D/D become tier 1, because it'd be worth it to see if it can keep up with the meta, but i'm also saying there there are legitimate reasons to deny its return.