yugioh A guide to making custom archetypes

[Surge77754]

A quick guide to creating custom cards/archetypes - Part 1

The first thing you want to do is to think about what you want your archetype to do.  This is like an idea that you make.  A custom archetype starts with an idea.  It doesn't have to be a very complicated one.  

Next, you want to use that idea that you have come up with, and implement that idea.  For example, an idea could be "monsters that get stronger the less cards you have in your Main Deck".  In that case, Pot of Desires can be an excellent tech to the deck.  In order to implement that idea, you'd want card/effects to thin your deck size and or recycle, because if you have 0 cards in your deck and it is your Draw Phase, you lose the game.  However, you'd also want to ask yourself, "How would I thin out my deck?". The point is to keep the idea simple so that it is easier to execute, and then stick with that idea.  Another example is Union monsters, which open a galaxy for you to explore (e.g. contact fusion w/ Union monsters whose Fusion are Unions themselves which are summoned by sending main deck unions you control to the GY to Special Summon those.). 

You also want to stick with the same idea throughout the archetype creation process.  If not, your archetype will become incoherent and not perform well.  If you can pick 4-6 cards in your archetype and your opponent can see that the other cards do the same thing, it is coherent.  Otherwise it is incoherent.  Incoherent archetypes tends to brick more often.  If one idea does not suit you, or that idea causes your archetype to be hard to execute to the point where it does not work, try another idea and see that if it suits you.  Keep in mind that custom archetypes are a way to experiment.  

Now for Costs 

These are resources that you must give up in order to do something.  Costs in Yugioh can include the following (in general, anything that comes before the ; is a cost):

• Discarding
• Tributing from hand/field
• Send from field/hand to GY 
• Return from field to hand 
• Banish from GY
• Paying LP
• shuffle from field/GY into deck

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Surge77754

[Loleo]

This is a really cool way to start archetypes. I particularly like to find new effects or elaborate on ideas that didn't work so well in the past. 

One small qualm is almost any thing can be a cost without actually having to give up resources, anything that comes before a ;.

Now an essential rule is cards should net +0 card advantage or require conditions to break that barrier.

Overall looks pretty accurate. I can't wait to see what you come up with.

[Ezrael]

This is great! Personally I'm a big fan of two approaches: The first being,as Uko said, finding effects that aren't so well elaborated on. It's a great way to take a seed of an idea and grow it into something much more useful and fun. The second approach that I enjoy is actually to find a theme to base your cards around first. Sometimes it can be a roadblock, but I find that it can also help you tie everything together lore wise in a way that you couldn't do with a function first. It doesn't always work, but if you find yourself with a really really cool theme that you want to follow, follow it!

[Surge77754]

8 hours ago, ITSUKOSOADO said:

This is a really cool way to start archetypes. I particularly like to find new effects or elaborate on ideas that didn't work so well in the past. 

One small qualm is almost any thing can be a cost without actually having to give up resources, anything that comes before a ;.

Now an essential rule is cards should net +0 card advantage or require conditions to break that barrier.

Overall looks pretty accurate. I can't wait to see what you come up with.

Indeed.  Right now I am experimenting with a custom Union archetype on DuelingBook.  I've got an idea that involves contact fusion with Union monsters, with the Fusion monsters being Union as well, so they can help the Main Deck Union monsters if they need to.  The contact fusion sends my main deck Unions I control from the field to the GY.  For example, a contact fusion with 3 Unions requires me to send 3 Union monsters I control to the GY, netting a -3 in card advantage to do so. 

I've got another idea in my head, such as if an <archetypal>  Union monster is equipped with another <archetypal> Union monster, it can be treated as 2 materials for the contact fusion of an <archetypal> Union Fusion monster.  

Sometimes if you work with the simplest ideas as xbox said (try stuff that no one has ever done before) you can be proficient at designing customs.

Part 2 is coming soon!

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Surge77754

[Surge77754]

Part 2 - Mechanics 

Now that you have your idea set up, it's time to get creating with mechanics.  You can use ideas that have been abandoned or start with existing ones.  Here are the basic ideas you can use.

• Battle Position manipulation (Morphtronics, Karakuri)
• Co-linking (be creative if you want to use this one)
• Columns (Mekk-Knight)
• Contact Fusion (Gladiator Beasts, Thunder Dragon archetype, Neos, etc.)
• Counters (Alien, Venom, and other cards with counters)
• Equipping of monsters (Unions, Inzentors, Dragunity)
• Level manipulation (Fortune Ladies)
• Tokens (try to be creative, the Brave series)
• Trap monsters (Paleo Frog)
• Xyz monsters (these can range from getting an end board of them, ranking up/down), and please focus on one idea in mind when doing this.  

And let your imagination flow when doing customs.  Nothing is stopping you from trying something new.  

For example, if someone's idea was customs Dinosaurs that aggro, the idea is very vague since the goal is not clear.  Do they want to OTK? If so, then Ultimate Conductor Tyranno should be the boss that assists those dinosaurs. Do they want to co-link? Without a clear-cut specific detailed idea, you won't get far.  And keep your ideas simple so that you can expand on them later on.  

Another example would be if someone's idea was to control the opponent, the idea is very vague because EVERY control deck hinders the opponent in some way.  How do you want to hinder the opponent? Again, without a clear cut idea, this will not get far.  

Try to avoid doing stuff that does not make the game fun.  

 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Surge77754

[Surge77754]

12 hours ago, xbox1003 said:

This is great! Personally I'm a big fan of two approaches: The first being,as Uko said, finding effects that aren't so well elaborated on. It's a great way to take a seed of an idea and grow it into something much more useful and fun. The second approach that I enjoy is actually to find a theme to base your cards around first. Sometimes it can be a roadblock, but I find that it can also help you tie everything together lore wise in a way that you couldn't do with a function first. It doesn't always work, but if you find yourself with a really really cool theme that you want to follow, follow it!

Thanks! I'm glad you really liked my posts.  There will be more coming up, so stay tuned.  

[Loleo]

10 hours ago, Surge77754 said:

Indeed.  Right now I am experimenting with a custom Union archetype on DuelingBook.  I've got an idea that involves contact fusion with Union monsters, with the Fusion monsters being Union as well, so they can help the Main Deck Union monsters if they need to.  The contact fusion sends my main deck Unions I control from the field to the GY.  For example, a contact fusion with 3 Unions requires me to send 3 Union monsters I control to the GY, netting a -2 (you get a monster in exchange for using 3) in card advantage to do so. 

 

I saw the magigirl archetype but for some reason I can't see the cards!

[Surge77754]

2 hours ago, ITSUKOSOADO said:

I saw the magigirl archetype but for some reason I can't see the cards!

That's because they are on DuelingBook.  I have the link on DuelingBook. 

https://www.duelingbook.com/deck?id=8892787

Edited October 4, 2021 by Surge77754

[Surge77754]

I will start a new topic on what combo, control, midrange, ramp, and grind decks are next. Stay tuned!!! 

All your comments, I love them!!!!

[Surge77754]

Alright - so here's Part 3 of my custom archetype guide 

Part 3 - Implementation of your custom archetype

Now that you have your theme and idea, it's time to implement it.  What you want to do is design the cards so that they "center" around that theme.   All archetypes need to have searchers (and possibly recyclers).  Searchers (or tutors) help you get the cards that you need, typically, you'll need 1 or 2 searchers to make your archetype work.  Some other people use the term "Stratos", named after Elemental HERO Stratos, to refer to the word "searcher", but it's the same idea. You can make an archetype without a searcher, but they will be very slow as you may brick more often.

Some custom archetypes have recyclers to get back resource(s) that were lost.  

For example, Morphtronics monsters have the theme/mechanic, "Do A when in Attack Position, but do B when in Defense Position" where A and B are different effects on the same card.  But there are 3 variants: OTK, with Equip Spells, and swarm.  It's best in this case if you want to make custom Morphtronics, pick one path and stick with it.  Keep in mind that OTKing is a going 2nd strategy, as we'll explain later. 

Another example is the part where you have the gimmick of "the less cards you have your Main Deck, the stronger your monsters become".  In this case, you could use self-milling effects like Lightsworn to help you with the strategy, but keep in mind Pot of Desires is a tech card. Foolish Burial is another tech card.  

Keep in mind that you don't want to design unhealthy cards.  If your opponent can't play against your deck, then you only designed a custom archetype just for the sake of winning and becomes unhealthy as a result.  This is bad because ANY archetype can win, given the right condition(s). Also, keep in mind the TCG banlist (or if you are in a custom card server, use their banlist as well, if they have one).  Nor would you have to make an archetype whose endboard has 5+ negates, as your opponent cannot play, which is also unhealthy. Cards are put on the TCG banlist for a reason. 

If you have anything to add, let me know.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Surge77754

[Surge77754]

Now for the next part of my guide - Balancing your custom archetypes, Part 4

Do not think of your cards inside a vacuum. Without the right restrictions, cards in an archetype can become subject to abuse due to existing support for that monster Type and/or Attribute support. Like Itsukando said, every card must have a +0 in card advantage, as card advantage is important when balancing your stuff.  For example, ROTA (Reinforcement of the Army) is a +0 in card advantage (you activate it (-1) and then you get a Level 4 or lower warrior from your Deck to your hand (+1) so the total advantage is zero.  Here's the thing though, it was limited because it was able to be put into ANY Warrior Type Deck.  Ancient Leaf breaks this case.  

In the case of Link monsters, every Link monster can be converted into a Link 1 which is why you must be careful with them. For Link 2 you send 2 monsters you control to the GY, which means that it's not likely that your main deck monsters will become link 2's.  The higher the link rating, the more you must invest to summon that monster.  A monster whose Link rating is X results in a -X + 1 card advantage, where X is the monster's Link Rating, and there are ways to cheat that, so do be careful.    

Locking your cards to that archetype is a way to prevent them from being abused. In other cases, if you do not want to lock your archetype, you have to test for possibilities it could be abused.  In PSCT, it comes in the form "You cannot Special Summon monsters, except 'X' monsters, the turn you Summoned this card." where X is the name of your archetype. It doesn't always have to be this case - You could lock it to Beast only, which will only allow you access to a third of Tribrigade's power as Tri-Brigade specializes in Beast, Beast-Warrior, and Winged Beast.    If you locked it to Pyro instead, Pyro monsters have very bad support outside Rekindling (which is for FIRE Pyro monsters with 200 DEF), so it's easy for you to work around this issue by making them have more than 200 DEF. (Volcanics aren't that good as of right now.)

There are other cases, as for example, in the case of Rituals, you want to ask yourself, "Do I want my archetype to work with Drytron or not?" and then work around this by asking someone to show you how to build Drytron so you can estimate the number of cards you'll need for your custom archetype.  Do take into consideration Pre-paration of Rites and other Ritual support before doing so.  If you want to have a PURE archetype it needs to have a minimum of 14 unique main deck cards. And PURE means only the cards of that archetype.  

For custom Tuners, you need to be aware of Crystron Halq, as it was able to abuse the Tuners, causing them to be hit on the TCG banlist. In that case, lock the Tuners to Synchro monsters before doing this.  

There is also Attribute support as well.  A DARK monster archetype who loves to banish wants Allure of Darkness as a tech card, and DARK monsters have good existing support.  For WATER monsters, there's Moray of Greed, Umi, and Salvage.  For FIRE monsters, there's Rekindling, which is easy to bypass if your monsters have more than 200 DEF.  Avoid DIVINE Attribute as that will contradict with the lore of the Egyptian Gods.  

And lastly, take into consideration existing support for that monster Type. Pyro have very little support outside Rekindling.  This means that if you make FIRE Attributed Pyro monsters with more than 200 DEF or non-FIRE Pyros with 200 DEF, then Rekindling will not touch your archetype. Beast, Beast-Warrior, and Winged-Beast have Tribrigade as support. For Beast-Warrior, you also have Fire Formation Tenki and Tensu as REALLY good support despite the fact that the former is limited. 

Warriors have Isolde (the Link 2) as support as it searches a Warrior monster.  Dragons have a ton of REALLY good support, as well as Dragon Link, so it's easy to set a wildfire if you are not careful with this.   Spellcasters have Magician Souls as their strongest support, so if your Spellcasters are Level 5 or lower, you shouldn't have to worry.  

Using the TCG banlist is a surefire way to keep your cards in check.  

And do keep in mind that balancing does not stop your imagination or from trying something new.

This is all for balancing.  If you have something to add, let me know.  

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Surge77754

[Loleo]

18 hours ago, Surge77754 said:

Now for the next part of my guide - Balancing your custom archetypes, Part 4

Do not think of your cards inside a vacuum. Without the right restrictions, cards in an archetype can become subject to abuse due to existing support for that monster Type and/or Attribute support. Like Itsukando said, every card must have a +0 in card advantage, as card advantage is important when balancing your stuff.  For example, ROTA (Reinforcement of the Army) is a +0 in card advantage (you activate it (-1) and then you get a Level 4 or lower warrior from your Deck to your hand (+1) so the total advantage is zero.  Here's the thing though, it was limited because it was able to be put into ANY Warrior Type Deck.  

I may be all over card advantage but I would like to say the is times that through restrictions and cost you can break the +0 barrier. See ancient Leaf.

In the case of Link monsters, every Link monster can be converted into a Link 1 which is why you must be careful with them. For Link 2 you send 2 monsters you control to the GY, which means that it's not likely that your main deck monsters will become link 2's.  The higher the link rating, the more you must invest to summon that monster.  A monster whose Link rating is X results in a -X card advantage, where X is the monster's Link Rating.  close but not quite it equal -X +1 card advantage typically and sometimes there are ways to cheat that.

Locking your cards to that archetype is a way to prevent them from being abused. In other cases, if you do not want to lock your archetype, you have to test for possibilities it could be abused.  In PSCT, it comes in the form "You cannot Special Summon monsters, except 'X' monsters, the turn you Summoned this card." where X is the name of your archetype. 

This is a great restriction, but remember it doesn't have to be that specific. You could specify "DARK" monsters or "Beast".

There are other cases, as for example, in the case of Rituals, you want to ask yourself, "Do I want my archetype to work with Drytron or not?" and then work around this by asking someone to show you how to build Drytron so you can estimate the number of cards you'll need for your custom archetype.  Do take into consideration Pre-paration of Rites and other Ritual support before doing so.  If you want Drytron to not touch your stuff, you must lock the custom Rituals to the archetype itself.  Archetype locking is very important in balance, as well as another aspect of custom card design.  

I think this is the best place to say if you want to have a PURE archetype it needs to have a minimum of 14 unique main deck cards.

For custom Tuners, you need to be aware of Crystron Halq, as it was able to abuse the Tuners, causing them to be hit on the TCG banlist. In that case, lock the Tuners to Synchro monsters before doing this.  

There is also Attribute support as well.  A DARK monster archetype who loves to banish wants Allure of Darkness as a tech card, and DARK monsters have good existing support.  For WATER monsters, there's Moray of Greed, Umi, and Salvage.  For FIRE monsters, there's Rekindling, which is easy to bypass if your monsters have more than 200 DEF.  

And lastly, take into consideration existing support for that monster Type. Pyro have very little support outside Rekindling if they are FIRE Attributed.  Beast, Beast-Warrior, and Winged-Beast have Tribrigade as support.  Warriors have Isolde (the Link 2) as support.  Dragons have a ton of REALLY good support, as well as Dragon Link, so it's easy to set a wildfire if you are not careful with this.   Spellcasters have Magician Souls as their strongest support, so if your Spellcasters are Level 5 or lower, you shouldn't have to worry.  

Using the TCG banlist is a surefire way to keep your cards in check.  

This is all for balancing.  If you have something to add, let me know.  

  

 

  

 

[Surge77754]

And here's one last thing when making custom archetypes in terms of balance.  Even with all these cases above, the end board must be checked.  An archetype with 5+ negates isn't fun to play against.  You want you and your opponent to have a good time playing the game.  No one wants a one-sided game.  If an archetype generates absurd card advantage to the point where Drytron can't take it anymore, then that archetype is unbalanced and must be checked.

This means that you must control the # of negates on the end board.  It's alright to have 1 omni-negate Counter Trap (or a Spell/Trap negate), but if you choose to do so, don't make any more negates.

Just because a custom archetype can play through Nibiru doesn't make it broken.  For example,  Mythical Beast has a monster negate that can negate Nibiru's hand effect so that you won't get the token.   An archetype that adapts to the opponent does not make the archetype broken.  

Edited October 15, 2021 by Surge77754

[Surge77754]

There is also a case where people will bring up the term degenerate, esp. in custom card servers.   Here's what should be classified as degenerate and should be avoided when making customs cards.  You want BOTH you and your opponent to have a lot of fun. 

• Cards which prevent you from playing the game (e.g. stopping a card Type).
• 1 card which grants you a lot of advantage
• a boss monster that is literally unbeatable and easy to summon.
• 1 card when placed in its archetype can be abusable outside it (e.g. Halq)   

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Surge77754

[Surge77754]

For an additional note, say that you are really interested in someone's custom balanced archetype that was posted to the public in terms of design and you want to play with it yourself for fun. How would you go building it? The answers lie in that archetype's tutors (or Stratos - named after the Elemental HERO Stratos) and extenders.  Whatever you want in your hand, you MUST run 3 copies of that card.  For any other card, it must be discussed on a case-by-case basis, and chances are you may want to run less than 3 copy of that card depending on the card's effects.

What you don't want in your hand is called a Garnet.  A brick is something you do not want in your hand as well, as it takes up 1 card in your hand.  However, the archetype's tutors and extenders are not always obvious, so further analysis is required.  A bad way to build an archetype (whether its a TCG one or custom one) is to run 3 copies of everything as you do not always want them in your hand.  Even for the Extra Deck, it applies.  First off, there are 15 slots in the Extra Deck, and if you were to run them at 3 copies max, then that archetype (whether it's custom or not) needs 5 REALLY good Extra Deck monsters, which is rarely the case.  

However there are chances that they won't post it to the public.  In that case, try searching somewhere else.  There's got to be something that perks your interest. At best, it's better to stick to your stuff. 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Surge77754

[Loleo]

I actually think this is a biased statement, most cards are played at 3 for consistency. Decks are typically exactly 40 cards and ~24 cards (8 unique) are at 3 and most decks have ~18 unique cards on average.

For the extra deck on the other hand YES you need variety you don't have to worry about consistency when you have access.

[ella_sofia]

Hello,
I read your question the same issue I face it.  But how to create  custom archetypes that replies not justify . Any suggestion please tell me

Edited October 22, 2021 by The Nyx Avatar
Dubious link

[Loleo]

On 10/21/2021 at 7:20 AM, ella_sofia said:

Hello,
I read your question the same issue I face it.  But how to create  custom archetypes that replies not justify me. Any suggestion please tell me

Hello welcome to YCM! This thread is filled with a lot of good advice for getting started. Come up with a theme, gimmick, and play style put it all together and you got it! If you need help fleshing out an idea ask the community.

Edited October 22, 2021 by The Nyx Avatar
Dubious link in ella's post

[Surge77754]

On 10/20/2021 at 9:55 PM, Loleo said:

I actually think this is a biased statement, most cards are played at 3 for consistency. Decks are typically exactly 40 cards and ~24 cards (8 unique) are at 3 and most decks have ~18 unique cards on average.

For the extra deck on the other hand YES you need variety you don't have to worry about consistency when you have access.

Indeed - this statement is very biased.  The goal to making a custom archetype is to think of a theme (or an idea) in order to give it an identity to work on.  Once you have come up with an idea, work on it.  Keep in mind that the identity does not have to be complex (e.g. Morphtronics have effects depending on their Battle Position.)

[Loleo]

3 hours ago, Surge77754 said:

Indeed - this statement is very biased.  The goal to making a custom archetype is to think of a theme (or an idea) in order to give it an identity to work on.  Once you have come up with an idea, work on it.  Keep in mind that the identity does not have to be complex (e.g. Morphtronics have effects depending on their Battle Position.)

I think I should rephrase I meant most decks should have many sets of 3 in the main deck because most cards you put in your deck you should want to see.

[Surge77754]

9 hours ago, Loleo said:

I think I should rephrase I meant most decks should have many sets of 3 in the main deck because most cards you put in your deck you should want to see.

Indeed. Because running 3 copies means you want that card in your hand.

[Loleo]

10 hours ago, Surge77754 said:

Indeed. Because running 3 copies means you want that card in your hand.

yes and a good deck should want most of it's cards in hand.

[Surge77754]

16 hours ago, Loleo said:

yes and a good deck should want most of it's cards in hand.

But keep in mind that having less than 3 cards in your deck (i.e. 2 or less) means you do not want those cards in hand.  This is true for a custom archetype. For example, who plays Combination Attack? That card is so situational as it activates its effect during a Battle Phase.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Surge77754

[tripledawn]

Thanks for the guide, surge. 

I'd like to add a couple of talking points to it, based on my own experience.

1. When coming up with archetype concepts, I try to imagine the hand movement of the player // flow of cards when resolving the cards. Are my cards // hands doing something that hasn't been done to death already? Can I imagine a player resolving a mechanic and having fun doing it? A few examples to try and explain what I'm saying.

- Witchcrafters want you to discard a hand full of spells to power their abilities, only to have those resources come back in the EP. Causing massive swings in card advantage.

- Codetalkers / Prankkids want to vomit their main deck to power their extradeck climbs

- VW mill their combo pieces, then banish those, then shuffle them back. Then do it again next turn.

2. Is there a large amount of things you do to resolve your cards // between cards? would an opponent be able to follow what's happening?

IMHO, walls of text should be kept to minimum. It's one thing if your boss // payoff // main combo piece is doing a whole bunch of things for you, but if you've got more then one or two of those in the deck... then it's very likely you -

a. are trying to explain a mechanic that's too complicated 

or

b. made cards that simply do too much, on their own

You should try simplify the text, or split the mechanics in between multiple cards. Hopefully you find a way to do these in a satisfying way without breaking anything, as things can get very interesting with a bit of creativity.

-----------

hope this helps! have fun coming up with cool ideas.

[Surge77754]

33 minutes ago, tripledawn said:

Thanks for the guide, surge. 

I'd like to add a couple of talking points to it, based on my own experience.

1. When coming up with archetype concepts, I try to imagine the hand movement of the player // flow of cards when resolving the cards. Are my cards // hands doing something that hasn't been done to death already? Can I imagine a player resolving a mechanic and having fun doing it? A few examples to try and explain what I'm saying.

- Witchcrafters want you to discard a hand full of spells to power their abilities, only to have those resources come back in the EP. Causing massive swings in card advantage.

- Codetalkers / Prankkids want to vomit their main deck to power their extradeck climbs

- VW mill their combo pieces, then banish those, then shuffle them back. Then do it again next turn.

2. Is there a large amount of things you do to resolve your cards // between cards? would an opponent be able to follow what's happening?

IMHO, walls of text should be kept to minimum. It's one thing if your boss // payoff // main combo piece is doing a whole bunch of things for you, but if you've got more then one or two of those in the deck... then it's very likely you -

a. are trying to explain a mechanic that's too complicated 

or

b. made cards that simply do too much, on their own

You should try simplify the text, or split the mechanics in between multiple cards. Hopefully you find a way to do these in a satisfying way without breaking anything, as things can get very interesting with a bit of creativity.

-----------

hope this helps! have fun coming up with cool ideas.

It does help.  It feels like that a lot of people are coming on here and sharing their experience with custom cards.  That means a lot to me.  

Edited October 24, 2021 by Surge77754