The Batman

[cr47t]

just got back from seeing it in a theater. i know i'm late and that everyone wants to watch multiverse of madness now, but i still am eager to hear what you all thought of this film.

here's mine: i think it may be my favorite batman movie (yes over TDK). i really enjoyed how the writers and crew leaned into the detective side of batman that we hadn't seen much of before (at least in live action). on the same note i enjoyed [spoiler alert from here on] how the story was as much about batman finding himself - realizing what gotham needs him to be, and that it requires more than vengeance and fear - as it is about the riddler's puzzles.

on that note (here's a hot take) i really think this riddler was the most realized, and scariest, batman villain on the big screen since heath ledger's joker in TDK, to the point of rivaling ledger even if not outshining him. (yes, i'm aware that jim carrey in Forever is technically a more accurate portrayal of the usual riddler in the comics, but it just wouldn't work here.) the other performances were great too - i dont know all the actors names, but all the other icons are realized in a way that both fits them and this vision of gotham - catwoman (also the best version of catwoman we've got in a movie), penguin, falcone and the others. after this movie i dont ever want to hear people tying robert pattinson (bruce/batman) to his roles in twilight again - that shit is over now.

one last note: i was very impressed with both this vision of gotham city as well as how fully it was realized. if the nolan movies were like crime dramas, i'd compare The Batman to a film noir, even if it's just to underscore how much more realistically grounded this version is than even the nolan films. that and the cinematography is also very fond of playing with light and darkness, even if in a different way than classic or neo noir. (i havent watched much of either so if i'm wrong please correct me.)

those are my thoughts. yours?

[Kokoroshi]

Overall, a lot of the same. I don’t agree with the hot take here but that may just be bias because the joker is easily my favorite DC villain. By the way, a few nitpicks because they annoyed me when watching the film:

I don’t like how there are SO many moments when Robert Pattinson is just staring into the camera for several seconds, some of them make sense but some just feel like they’re there to patten out the run time.

Batman and Catwoman’s kiss feels forced, at that point in the movie, it doesn’t really feel like they would see each other like that. I get that Batman and Catwoman have this forbidden love thing in the comics but I don’t feel like it should’ve been here, especially not at the point when it happened.

finally, it’s a little weird that they turned the Riddler into a terrorist LIVESTREAMER. I get that they’re trying to evolve the character with the times but I feel that the way they portrayed him before the livestreamer reveal was just fine. 

[Horu]

Nope. Once you're Batman, you're always Batman.

Think about it.

Who is Adam West? Michael Keaton? Val Kilmer? George Clooney? Christian Bale? Ben Afleck? Robert Pattenson?

You can answer all of those with a single word. Batman.

Also, I like how Pattenson's Batman was somewhere between Bale and Afleck. Also, that detective work that we didn't see any part of since Keaton. I liked that it was very much a Batman, and I mean BATMAN, movie. And Yet, we still got more Bruce Wayne in this movie than both BVS and Justice League combined. But I really liked that this Batman was a detective. It made it feel like we were actually watching Batman. Don't get me wrong. I do like watching Batman get his hands dirty. Hence why I liked BVS. It was the first time we actually got mean Batman and it was GLORIOUS! But Justice League somewhat ruined that and The Batman somewhat brought it back and refined it a bit. Hopefully, they let us keep mean Batman this time around. But one can only hope. Also, it was a breath of fresh air to see Batman actually lock somebody away instead of killing them. The movie was, overall, very refreshing and true to the character of Batman.

[cr47t]

On 5/8/2022 at 12:11 AM, Kokoroshi said:

Overall, a lot of the same. I don’t agree with the hot take here but that may just be bias because the joker is easily my favorite DC villain. By the way, a few nitpicks because they annoyed me when watching the film:

I don’t like how there are SO many moments when Robert Pattinson is just staring into the camera for several seconds, some of them make sense but some just feel like they’re there to patten out the run time.

Batman and Catwoman’s kiss feels forced, at that point in the movie, it doesn’t really feel like they would see each other like that. I get that Batman and Catwoman have this forbidden love thing in the comics but I don’t feel like it should’ve been here, especially not at the point when it happened.

finally, it’s a little weird that they turned the Riddler into a terrorist LIVESTREAMER. I get that they’re trying to evolve the character with the times but I feel that the way they portrayed him before the livestreamer reveal was just fine. 

well, to be fair, i watched it in theaters once (part of it on streaming beforehand but not in fill) and i wasn't super analytical during that watch. so maybe i was just excited, but i'd like to respond (not for spite, just want to keep the thread/convo going)

i don't remember the staring into camera moments very well, the two i remember most are batman's first appearance and after [SPOILERS ahead] Colson crashing the car. i do think there were more, but i guess it wasnt a big deal to me b/c there were so many other moments of the movie that still stick in my mind. the two monologues, the car chase, Colson's 'trial', etc.

i do think the bat/cat kiss was kinda out of place, when i watched it i didn't get why it was happening. i do agree on this one that they wouldn't see eachother like that so soon.

i'm not sure when the "livestreamer reveal" you're talking about is, im thinking either colson's trial or that part of the riddler's plot at the climax but im not sure which one. i do think that this is the kind of thing that someone like riddler might do, depending on their motives (which i dont think we really learn), but not that i think about it, if the livestream in the finale was public and not something on a private access thing, it is absurd that they didn't shut it down sooner, considering that IRL Twitch shut down the Buffalo shooter's livestream within 2 minutes of airing.

On 5/25/2022 at 3:15 PM, Horu said:

I like how Pattenson's Batman was somewhere between Bale and Afleck. Also, that detective work that we didn't see any part of since Keaton. I liked that it was very much a Batman, and I mean BATMAN, movie. And Yet, we still got more Bruce Wayne in this movie than both BVS and Justice League combined. But I really liked that this Batman was a detective. It made it feel like we were actually watching Batman. Don't get me wrong. I do like watching Batman get his hands dirty. Hence why I liked BVS. It was the first time we actually got mean Batman and it was GLORIOUS! But Justice League somewhat ruined that and The Batman somewhat brought it back and refined it a bit. Hopefully, they let us keep mean Batman this time around. But one can only hope. Also, it was a breath of fresh air to see Batman actually lock somebody away instead of killing them. The movie was, overall, very refreshing and true to the character of Batman.

well, for me i dont really think BVS did a good job with batman b/c batfleck kills, violating the character of batman as seen for a long time in a lot of media (including BTAS, nolan, etc. also why im not a big keaton batman fan) but i agree that this batman is a interesting and fresh take on the character without sacrificing anything that defines him (like BVS scrificed the no killing/guns rule to try and make batman seem mean, etc.)

[Horu]

On 5/27/2022 at 12:23 PM, cr47t said:

well, for me i dont really think BVS did a good job with batman b/c batfleck kills, violating the character of batman as seen for a long time in a lot of media (including BTAS, nolan, etc. also why im not a big keaton batman fan) but i agree that this batman is a interesting and fresh take on the character without sacrificing anything that defines him (like BVS scrificed the no killing/guns rule to try and make batman seem mean, etc.)

i like that they kept the no killing rule for this Batman. And even moreso because this is a younger Batman. BVS is different because it is a much older and more experienced Batman that has come to understand to use whatever level of force the situation requires. But this take on a younger Batman just starting his journey, it makes sense that he doesn't want to kill and potentially save everyone he possibly can.

[cr47t]

On 6/13/2022 at 8:11 AM, Horu said:

i like that they kept the no killing rule for this Batman. And even moreso because this is a younger Batman. BVS is different because it is a much older and more experienced Batman that has come to understand to use whatever level of force the situation requires. But this take on a younger Batman just starting his journey, it makes sense that he doesn't want to kill and potentially save everyone he possibly can.

the thing is it makes sense even for older and more experienced iterations, given that the trajectory that bruce is on in the first place; he was hurt so badly by his parents' death, and so strongly believing in what is just and right, that he would spend every waking night of his life putting himself through physical and emotional just to ensure no other boy, or anyone for that matter, would have to feel the way he felt at that moment - why the fuck would he take a life? ever? and that's without noting that many batman iterations (bale/nolan, BTAS, etc.) consistently find a way to meet whatever situation without lethal force.

some people (like snyder) think it may be a hopeless case, that maybe he should kill people like the joker or dano's riddler. but the fact that he is able to step in and stop it without doing so is, for many people including myself at a young age, what made him a hero in the first place. this is further developed in the deleted joker interrogation scene (with barry keoghan) - "you think they deserved it" is that impactful because joker understands that there aren't that many differences between battinson and dano's riddler (both use fear as a tool, play into theactrics, disguise themselves, etc.) except bruce doesn't do the actual killing part. (this is exemplified by batman's dialogue with riddler in the film's final cut, too.)

a lot of this is taken from hitop films' YT video about why batman doesn't kill, but i think the point is made for why i think this is the best and deepest exploration of batman's character in a liveaction film.

 

 

[Horu]

12 hours ago, cr47t said:

the thing is it makes sense even for older and more experienced iterations, given that the trajectory that bruce is on in the first place; he was hurt so badly by his parents' death, and so strongly believing in what is just and right, that he would spend every waking night of his life putting himself through physical and emotional just to ensure no other boy, or anyone for that matter, would have to feel the way he felt at that moment - why the fuck would he take a life? ever? and that's without noting that many batman iterations (bale/nolan, BTAS, etc.) consistently find a way to meet whatever situation without lethal force.

some people (like snyder) think it may be a hopeless case, that maybe he should kill people like the joker or dano's riddler. but the fact that he is able to step in and stop it without doing so is, for many people including myself at a young age, what made him a hero in the first place. this is further developed in the deleted joker interrogation scene (with barry keoghan) - "you think they deserved it" is that impactful because joker understands that there aren't that many differences between battinson and dano's riddler (both use fear as a tool, play into theactrics, disguise themselves, etc.) except bruce doesn't do the actual killing part. (this is exemplified by batman's dialogue with riddler in the film's final cut, too.)

a lot of this is taken from hitop films' YT video about why batman doesn't kill, but i think the point is made for why i think this is the best and deepest exploration of batman's character in a liveaction film.

 

 

This, I very much agree with. And the fact that Batman doesn't want to kill. The fact that he will exhaust every other option many, many, many times before he accepts that killing is the only option left. I think this is best explained in Under the Red Hood when Bruce explains to Jason why he doesn't kill. He basically states that killing would be way too easy. But the refusal to kill unless it is his only option is what makes Batman special. Think about it for a moment and make a list of heroes that don't kill. That being said, even Superman has killed somebody. Batman is the only true hero left. He is literally the only hero that tries to save everyone (including the bad guy) he possibly can.