Who said that life points matter?

[The Dark One]

it doesnt matter if we dont understand what crab just said we can all summerize it up to be something like this

 

 

this topic is spam' date=' horrible horrible spam. of course lifepoints matter you idiots....

 

 

...somewhere bout that

[/quote']

 

First of all, Disturbed is awesome.

 

Secondly, Crab's is rather an extremist on the Life Points irrelevancy topic. He was pointing out how sad it was that everyone changed their views to suite the new *pro* opinion. (Atem's statement.) Thus, people are sheep. They do whatever they think will make them "fit in."

[Tekken Ham]

Crab and Atem both win arguments, people follow them because they are epic (if not a little arrogant) in hopes that they too can be epic, sadly, they are mistaken.

[Purple Dinosaur]

Life Points only matter in Psycho Decks.

 

There may be more, but I don't care.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

You're really something special, to post something so blazingly, flamingly, brazenly incorrect, after it's already been shown to be incorrect.

 

Seriously.

 

It's stupidity like that... which deserves to be ridiculed endlessly.

[Exiro]

Only bad players think that Life Points do not matter.

 

The only cases when life points matter are:

• When you need to pay a cost.
  
• Against burn decks.
  
• When a player's life points have become extremely high while the victory condition of the opponent is to lower his life points to 0 without using cards that set a player's life points to a certain amount.
  

 

Can you prove me wrong?

 

They don't.

 

 

 

Seriously' date=' they don't.[/url']

 

I just had to share this duel where I was at 100 lp from like the beginning, but still didn't lose (and at 25 if I wanted, I could've used the Solemns if I wanted).

 

Have you ever had a duel this close?

 

Contradiction is self-evident. QED.

 

Do I have to think 5 hours before I post something just so that the post is perfect and cannot be used against me? When I posted that I kept in mind that life points are important in some cases, but I thought it wasn't really important to put that in the post. I was planning to say when life points matter whenever somebody says that they matter.

 

Also, you haven't proven that I was wrong about the cases when life points matter, you've just shown that I said otherwise myself.

[MjRiku]

deponds on ya staratagy, life points matter if your trying to get exsodia but then dont if your a oTK deck becuse then you just bide your time.

 

I had a dule today where i was on the oppitside of it, i was still on 8000 when i got my gf's life points well down into the hundraeds and she still manged to turn it around.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

TL;DR: You have no present business attempting to argue a point from a logical perspective, Exiro, at least in regard to this and similar topics. The following will demonstrate such.

 

Only bad players think that Life Points do not matter.

 

The only cases when life points matter are:

• When you need to pay a cost.
  
• Against burn decks.
  
• When a player's life points have become extremely high while the victory condition of the opponent is to lower his life points to 0 without using cards that set a player's life points to a certain amount.
  

 

Can you prove me wrong?

 

They don't.

 

 

 

Seriously' date=' they don't.[/url']

 

I just had to share this duel where I was at 100 lp from like the beginning, but still didn't lose (and at 25 if I wanted, I could've used the Solemns if I wanted).

 

Have you ever had a duel this close?

 

Contradiction is self-evident. QED.

 

Do I have to think 5 hours before I post something just so that the post is perfect and cannot be used against me?

 

No. Why do you ask?

 

When I posted that I kept in mind that life points are important in some cases' date=' but I thought it wasn't really important to put that in the post.[/quote']

 

You obviously thought wrongly.

 

I was planning to say when life points matter whenever somebody says that they matter.

 

Bollocks.

 

The only logical excuse is that you said one thing and meant another; learn to say what you mean to communicate. That is' date=' learn to communicate well.

 

Also, you haven't proven that I was wrong about the cases when life points matter, you've just shown that I said otherwise myself.

 

Never we mind how you really shouldn't bother ever trying to argue anything while you have the ability to contradict yourself so completely, I'll move on to this new point and note it to be fallacious as well.

 

The only cases when life points matter are:

• When you need to pay a cost.
  
• Against burn decks.
  
• When a player's life points have become extremely high while the victory condition of the opponent is to lower his life points to 0 without using cards that set a player's life points to a certain amount.
  

Can you prove me wrong?

 

The flaw with this idiotic little ditty is that it assumes the only relevance of LP to be that of an on-off switch.

 

LPs always matter' date=' solely because having more LPs is always better than having less.

 

The game has three victory conditions. LPs are irrelevant to two of those conditions. The third condition is Opp LP = 0.

 

Any player of decent mental faculties... knows that the game, at heart, is nothing but an exercise of preventing your opponent from achieving a victory condition at any cost, while simultaneously expediting your own victory conditions.

 

Now, I realize it's horribly obvious to say such a thing, but considering the silly things you've said, you need it to be told to you.

 

A greater number always does more than a lesser number to delay the opposition.

 

LPs always matter, out of the sole premise of delaying the achievement of the opponent's victory condition; this is because it is always preferable to have more LP between any two otherwise-identical game states.

 

 

deponds on ya staratagy,

 

No, it doesn't.

 

then dont if your a oTK deck becuse then you just bide your time.

 

That's also incorrect. Any deck in the game' date=' when given the choice between two otherwise-identical game states, would be better served by having more LP.

 

I had a dule today where i was on the oppitside of it, i was still on 8000 when i got my gf's life points well down into the hundraeds and she still manged to turn it around.

 

So?

[CrabHelmet]

That's also incorrect. Any deck in the game' date=' when given the choice between two otherwise-identical game states, would be better served by having more LP.

[/quote']

 

...assuming that we disregard Reversal Quiz / Equilizer / Self-Destruct Button / Last Turn / Elemental Hero Air Neos decks.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

That's also incorrect. Any deck in the game' date=' when given the choice between two otherwise-identical game states, would be better served by having more LP.

[/quote']

 

...assuming that we disregard Reversal Quiz / Equilizer / Self-Destruct Button / Last Turn / Elemental Hero Air Neos decks.

 

Incorrect.

 

Do note that your post makes an assumption that the aforementioned cards matter enough to change the overarching truth espoused by the majority of the game's cards and winning methods.

 

It is impossible for them to do so in any format, as they just aren't inclined in such a way.

[「tea.leaf」]

Still lovin' you guys.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

Stop fellating us and do something useful with your time.

[Purple Dinosaur]

Still lovin' you guys.

 

Well they kinda make me feel bad.

 

If I say something' date=' they'll, of course, take the opposite view. Crab'll say pretty much what is wrong with what you said and Pharaoh_Atem will say it... well, let's just say he does it too but using a more rich vocabulary.

 

I'm not insulting them in ANY way but sometimes, they can get carried away. It's okay if you guys don't agree, but at least this is what [b']I[/b] think and NOBODY can change that.

 

You guys might be arrogant, but you guys are right.

[The Dark One]

Still lovin' you guys.

 

Well they kinda make me feel bad.

 

If I say something' date=' they'll, of course, take the opposite view. Crab'll say pretty much what is wrong with what you said and Pharaoh_Atem will say it... well, let's just say he does it too but using a more rich vocabulary.

 

I'm not insulting them in ANY way but sometimes, they can get carried away. It's okay if you guys don't agree, but at least this is what [b']I[/b] think and NOBODY can change that.

 

You guys might be arrogant, but you guys are right.

 

While I will agree with you on both the arrogance that the rightness issues, there is a quirk in your post that I wish to point out:

 

First, you say that Atem and Crab are being oppositional, not necessarily meaning what they say but still winning through sheer debating skills. Then you say that you are not insulting them in any way. By most people's standards, oppositional behavior is a negative trait, thus, by pointing out said oppositional behavior, you are reflecting upon them negatively, or insulting them.

 

Secondly, you say that you have your view and no one can change that. This is fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, next you say that though they are arrogant, they are right. Having already established that their opinions were contrary to your own, it is impossible for you to believe in their correctness and your incorrect opinion at the same time.

 

Seriously, I understand what you were trying to say, but when debating, you need to try to close as many loopholes in your post as is possible. Especially blatant incongruent statements such as the ones you made.

[Purple Dinosaur]

Still lovin' you guys.

 

Well they kinda make me feel bad.

 

If I say something' date=' they'll, of course, take the opposite view. Crab'll say pretty much what is wrong with what you said and Pharaoh_Atem will say it... well, let's just say he does it too but using a more rich vocabulary.

 

I'm not insulting them in ANY way but sometimes, they can get carried away. It's okay if you guys don't agree, but at least this is what [b']I[/b] think and NOBODY can change that.

 

You guys might be arrogant, but you guys are right.

 

While I will agree with you on both the arrogance that the rightness issues, there is a quirk in your post that I wish to point out:

 

First, you say that Atem and Crab are being oppositional, not necessarily meaning what they say but still winning through sheer debating skills. Then you say that you are not insulting them in any way. By most people's standards, oppositional behavior is a negative trait, thus, by pointing out said oppositional behavior, you are reflecting upon them negatively, or insulting them.

 

Secondly, you say that you have your view and no one can change that. This is fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, next you say that though they are arrogant, they are right. Having already established that their opinions were contrary to your own, it is impossible for you to believe in their correctness and your incorrect opinion at the same time.

 

What I mean here is that say I say a card is good, this is what they'll do:

 

Anchor: Good Card is Good.

Crab: You fail...

 

Anchor: Good Card is Good.

Atem: while you may be right in... 3 huge paragraphs later ...which is why you are wrong in every way.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

Still lovin' you guys.

 

Well they kinda make me feel bad.

 

There's no reason for you to.

 

If I say something' date=' they'll, of course, take the opposite view.[/quote']

 

Unless you're right.

 

You've just had a rather undesirable track record lately.

 

That's no reason to feel bad, though.

 

Crab'll say pretty much what is wrong with what you said and Pharaoh_Atem will say it... well' date=' let's just say he does it too but using a more rich vocabulary.[/quote']

 

How's that a reason to feel bad?

 

I'm not insulting them in ANY way but sometimes' date=' they can get carried away.[/quote']

 

Explain to us what is "carried away" about merely explaining how someone is wrong, the severity of how they are wrong, and also saying other things that fit the circumstances.

 

It's okay if you guys don't agree' date='[/quote']

 

Aye

 

but at least this is what I think and NOBODY can change that.

 

1) You are somebody' date=' and you can change it; therefore, somebody can change it. The claim is incorrect.

 

2) A deeper point exists past the initial factor of whether or not it is correct - the matter of relevance has to be noted. Grant me a logical setup for it.

 

In this setup, we will assume that you are wrong about something. We will further assume that you cannot change your mind about this certain matter that you are wrong about; in this case, how is it possibly a good thing that your mind cannot be changed?

 

In this case, you seem wrong about having reason to feel bad, and seem wrong about having reason to feel us to be carried away. You also make the claim that no one can change your mind; if no one can, is that not worse if you are wrong?

 

You guys might be arrogant, but you guys are right.

 

You say that like arrogance is somehow something that runs contrary to a person being right some of the time, as if the two are somehow related attributes.

 

Just in case you believe such, I'd like to put forth a pre-emptive and say that they aren't related - arrogance is just as likely and can be just as potent from someone who is 100% wrong.

 

The arrogance is a negligible detriment at most; to be frank, there's no reason to care about such, if the person is right *and* the board itself is not worsened; this is such a case.

[The Dark One]

 

Just in case you believe such' date=' I'd like to put forth a pre-emptive and say that they aren't related - arrogance is just as likely and can be just as potent from someone who is 100% wrong.

 

The arrogance is a negligible detriment at most; to be frank, there's no reason to care about such, if the person is right *and* the board itself is not worsened; this is such a case.

[/quote']

 

1. This is, to a certain extent, incorrect. While Arrogance and Correctness do not have an absolute correlation, the illusion of being correct or dominant or superior has a tendency to both cause arrogance and increase the magnitude of preexisting arrogance. This is separate from one's actual correctness, as one can be perceived to be correct in one environment, and thus perceive oneself to be correct, causing the increase in arrogance. That being said, arrogance is actually a whole lot more irritating when coming from a person who is a blatant idiot.

 

2. While arrogance is certainly not the worst attribute a person can have, it is still a strong negative. Perhaps both you and Crab (and many others on this board, including perhaps me) should attempt to examine your thoughts more carefully in the future before you post them, thus hopefully allowing you to keep arrogance from entering your posts.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

Still lovin' you guys.

 

Well they kinda make me feel bad.

 

If I say something' date=' they'll, of course, take the opposite view. Crab'll say pretty much what is wrong with what you said and Pharaoh_Atem will say it... well, let's just say he does it too but using a more rich vocabulary.

 

I'm not insulting them in ANY way but sometimes, they can get carried away. It's okay if you guys don't agree, but at least this is what [b']I[/b] think and NOBODY can change that.

 

You guys might be arrogant, but you guys are right.

 

While I will agree with you on both the arrogance that the rightness issues, there is a quirk in your post that I wish to point out:

 

First, you say that Atem and Crab are being oppositional, not necessarily meaning what they say but still winning through sheer debating skills. Then you say that you are not insulting them in any way. By most people's standards, oppositional behavior is a negative trait, thus, by pointing out said oppositional behavior, you are reflecting upon them negatively, or insulting them.

 

Secondly, you say that you have your view and no one can change that. This is fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, next you say that though they are arrogant, they are right. Having already established that their opinions were contrary to your own, it is impossible for you to believe in their correctness and your incorrect opinion at the same time.

 

What I mean here is that say I say a card is good, this is what they'll do:

 

Anchor: Good Card is Good.

Crab: You fail...

 

Anchor: Good Card is Good.

Atem: while you may be right in... 3 huge paragraphs later ...which is why you are wrong in every way.

 

Making note of a recieved PM, I will note that this is mostly a matter of negative feeling based upon position and mannerism.

 

The issue is with how we act toward others, and also with how others receive that - insofar as my own case, I cannot alter how I act in terms of how I speak or type, but I can explain in further depth.

 

Insofar as the case of those whom I speak to: if you've a problem with what I say, tell me so. (I'm positive that none of you have a problem with this. The problem lies before that, at the point in which you actually take in my words.) If you feel hurt by what I say, you must realize that there is no reason for you to be hurt by it.

 

Yeah, you might be bad at a card game. No reason to be emotional when told such. Compared to some of my associates, I'm terrible; a US Champion from metagames long past, who I speak to from time to time, can play circles around me then and now. I don't get upset when confronted with the truth that I'm terrible when compared to him; I just focus on improving.

 

Yeah, you might be told that you fail, or that you've no business discussing logic, or that you're dead wrong. Congratulations: being told that is a giant red flag that 1) either you or the other is wrong, possibly both, 2) that you need to dig deeper if you want to pursue the matter, and 3) that whosoever might be wrong... should try to improve.

 

Being told that you're wrong can be one of the best things to happen to you, no matter what you're doing. Take it in proper stride.

[Purple Dinosaur]

Still lovin' you guys.

 

Well they kinda make me feel bad.

 

If I say something' date=' they'll, of course, take the opposite view. Crab'll say pretty much what is wrong with what you said and Pharaoh_Atem will say it... well, let's just say he does it too but using a more rich vocabulary.

 

I'm not insulting them in ANY way but sometimes, they can get carried away. It's okay if you guys don't agree, but at least this is what [b']I[/b] think and NOBODY can change that.

 

You guys might be arrogant, but you guys are right.

 

While I will agree with you on both the arrogance that the rightness issues, there is a quirk in your post that I wish to point out:

 

First, you say that Atem and Crab are being oppositional, not necessarily meaning what they say but still winning through sheer debating skills. Then you say that you are not insulting them in any way. By most people's standards, oppositional behavior is a negative trait, thus, by pointing out said oppositional behavior, you are reflecting upon them negatively, or insulting them.

 

Secondly, you say that you have your view and no one can change that. This is fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, next you say that though they are arrogant, they are right. Having already established that their opinions were contrary to your own, it is impossible for you to believe in their correctness and your incorrect opinion at the same time.

 

What I mean here is that say I say a card is good, this is what they'll do:

 

Anchor: Good Card is Good.

Crab: You fail...

 

Anchor: Good Card is Good.

Atem: while you may be right in... 3 huge paragraphs later ...which is why you are wrong in every way.

 

Making note of a recieved PM, I will note that this is mostly a matter of negative feeling based upon position and mannerism.

 

The issue is with how we act toward others, and also with how others receive that - insofar as my own case, I cannot alter how I act in terms of how I speak or type, but I can explain in further depth.

 

Insofar as the case of those whom I speak to: if you've a problem with what I say, tell me so. (I'm positive that none of you have a problem with this. The problem lies before that, at the point in which you actually take in my words.) If you feel hurt by what I say, you must realize that there is no reason for you to be hurt by it.

 

Yeah, you might be bad at a card game. No reason to be emotional when told such. Compared to some of my associates, I'm terrible; a US Champion from metagames long past, who I speak to from time to time, can play circles around me then and now. I don't get upset when confronted with the truth that I'm terrible when compared to him; I just focus on improving.

 

Yeah, you might be told that you fail, or that you've no business discussing logic, or that you're dead wrong. Congratulations: being told that is a giant red flag that 1) either you or the other is wrong, possibly both, 2) that you need to dig deeper if you want to pursue the matter, and 3) that whosoever might be wrong... should try to improve.

 

Being told that you're wrong can be one of the best things to happen to you, no matter what you're doing. Take it in proper stride.

 

Well, you may write long paragraphs, but I read them ALL so, yeah. I don't just jump to conculsions.

[The Dark One]

Who said you jumped to conclusions? And since when was writing a lot a bad thing?

[Purple Dinosaur]

Who said you jumped to conclusions? And since when was writing a lot a bad thing?

 

I never said it was. Did you read the part that I said I read the whole thing?

[Pharaoh_Atem]

Anchor, he's mostly just curious as to why you'd put those words down in the first place.

 

 

 

Just in case you believe such' date=' I'd like to put forth a pre-emptive and say that they aren't related - arrogance is just as likely and can be just as potent from someone who is 100% wrong.

 

The arrogance is a negligible detriment at most; to be frank, there's no reason to care about such, if the person is right *and* the board itself is not worsened; this is such a case.

[/quote']

 

1. This is, to a certain extent, incorrect. While Arrogance and Correctness do not have an absolute correlation, the illusion of being correct or dominant or superior has a tendency to both cause arrogance and increase the magnitude of preexisting arrogance. This is separate from one's actual correctness, as one can be perceived to be correct in one environment, and thus perceive oneself to be correct, causing the increase in arrogance. That being said, arrogance is actually a whole lot more irritating when coming from a person who is a blatant idiot.

 

Decompiling.

 

While Arrogance and Correctness do not have an absolute correlation' date=' the illusion of being correct or dominant or superior has a tendency to both cause arrogance and increase the magnitude of preexisting arrogance.[/quote']

 

The crucial flaw here is the matter of illusion.

 

The exact text of the above premise is correct, and is therefore granted.

 

However, "the illusion of being correct or dominant or superior" is, by definition, a state of being that requires that the correctness, dominance, or superiority of the illusion... to be different than that of such in the reality.

 

Your next portion, as below, does agree with such a claim in regard to the matter of the illusion.

 

This is separate from one's actual correctness' date=' as one can be perceived to be correct in one environment, and thus perceive oneself to be correct, causing the increase in arrogance.[/quote']

 

This premise's exact text is also correct; what you've not done, though, is proven that it applies to this case.

 

You've got the hypotheticals in hand just fine; however, I will note that there is indeed no actual way to prove that we are actually being arrogant, instead of merely correct within reality.

 

I will also note that persons in your position are vulnerable to false senses of arrogance on the part of persons in my position; that is, since I seem to be handling this well, I automatically seem arrogant because of my refusal to mince words and/or my inability to conform to typical behavior of members.

 

Namely, I'm different, and that can breed negativity in your heads as well. I wholeheartedly admit that there is no way to prove such in a fully objective sense, but I am confident that my end is not arrogant, but merely correct in reality's terms. This leaves negativity in your head as the only conclusion that I can be confident in.

 

Your challenge here is to prove that there is an illusion at work, instead of actual correctness. Dominance and Superiority have no place here, and have never been a part of the matter past whatever you wish to invent for it.

 

2. While arrogance is certainly not the worst attribute a person can have' date=' it is still a strong negative.[/quote']

 

This is all granted, except for the word "strong." Defend it if you like, but you must be advised that the defense will fail, thanks to the innate subjectivism required to even believe such a claim.

 

Perhaps both you and Crab (and many others on this board' date=' including perhaps me) should attempt to examine your thoughts more carefully in the future before you post them, thus hopefully allowing you to keep arrogance from entering your posts.[/quote']

 

This would require arrogance to be within said posts in the first place.

 

Know that I already examine my words to the best of my ability; I again state that the feelings of arrogance are, quite literally, all in your heads according to every little piece of info I can pick out of all of my posts on this forum.

 

There're only about 50 or so, so it doesn't take more than 2 mins or so to go through them.

[「tea.leaf」]

Still lovin' you guys.

 

Well they kinda make me feel bad.

 

If I say something' date=' they'll, of course, take the opposite view. Crab'll say pretty much what is wrong with what you said and Pharaoh_Atem will say it... well, let's just say he does it too but using a more rich vocabulary.

 

I'm not insulting them in ANY way but sometimes, they can get carried away. It's okay if you guys don't agree, but at least this is what [b']I[/b] think and NOBODY can change that.

 

You guys might be arrogant, but you guys are right.

It's because they know how to hold up a good argument, and they seem to offer insightful thinking that no one else demonstrates.

 

You guys rock.

[Pharaoh_Atem]

The next person to fellate me is going to get it.

[The Dark One]

Ok Atem, I hereby retract any implications I have made about your arrogance. I unfortunately made the mistake of generalizing, and as I look back can recognize no act by you that I would perceive as arrogant.

 

This does still stand to an extent for Crab. Just to keeps things clear here, I'm going to post a working definition of arrogance. (Merriam-Webster.)

 

Main Entry:
   ar·ro·gance Listen to the pronunciation of arrogance
Pronunciation:
   \ˈer-ə-gən(t)s, ˈa-rə-\ 
Function:
   noun 
Date:
   14th century

: an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions

 

Frankly, I consider Crab to be quite overbearing at times. This is also the only form of arrogance that could possibly be applied to you, though if so, it is negligible.

 

As Anchor Remix previously stated, Crab Helmet has an unfortunate habit of making one-liners such as *you fail* that, though correct in their essence, do not provide sufficient data to actually prove the failure. In these circumstances, I would assume that Crab Helmet holds such a truth to be self-evident, and is only himself reiterating said truth. In this case, he is making the assumption that such a truth is self-evident, rather than spending the time to prove his view. Taking the time to prove your point not only simply helps the one who failed, by aiding them in avoiding that failure in the future, but also just makes you come across friendlier.

 

That being said, I have no real problem with Crab Helmet's unsupported (in the post) assertions, because they are rarely, if ever, directed at me. Still, I think he could improve in this area. As could many members of this forum.

 

I now regret my word choice in my earlier post when I said illusion. I meant to convey that it is not rightness itself which can lead to arrogance, but simply the belief in your rightness. Be it real or illusory, it doesn't really matter. Also, my entire argument was a hypothetical response to your earlier post, with no lines necessarily being drawn between what I stated and this situation, though I did float a bit into the area of justifying the belief in Crab Helmet's arrogance. I believe I outlined that justification reasonably well above, so I will not repeat myself.

 

While you are correct in stating that arrogance being a mild or strong negative is a subjective point, I will simply say that I am more strongly repelled by a person who comes across to me as arrogant than I am about a person who comes across as blatantly ignorant. I will tell you that I hold knowledge in high esteem, so I dislike arrogance rather strongly. However, it is important to note the difference between ignorance and stupidity. One who does not know can be taught. The same is not true for one who just denies logic. This leads into my other point of there being things much worse than arrogance. I would strongly prefer knowing someone who may be arrogant but is intelligent, than I would someone who is relatively unassuming but outright dumb. Unfortunately, stupidity seems to go hand in hand with with the illusion of correctness. Many stupid people are overbearing and arrogant in addition to their lack of intelligence. A stupid or illogical person who thinks he can't be wrong is just about the worst combination out there.

 

I was merely stating dominance and superiority as alternate routes to arrogance.

 

Good for you, you're careful about what you say. I unfortunately tend not to follow that convention, though I try.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

The next person to fellate me is going to get it.

 

By "it"' date=' do you mean...

 

>_>

<_<

 

[b']It?[/b]