I swear to God, if you bring up this or any past fomat, I will kill you.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

I'll give my own reasons for why these should be there, or at least in a position like that.

 

Malicious= Allows for very easy and quick Synchro Summons to be done. Multiples in one turn for the cost of practically nothing, because you can discard for a card effect or for Destiny Draw.

 

Brain Control= Well, I guess it would be because it makes Tributing and lucking out easier.

 

Marshy= No need to get rid of an okay monster. Lots of cards that do piercing damage, and if your opponent is smart, they will run destruction. But on this list, I think they got rid of most of it? Anyway, stall still needs so support.

 

Judgment= Well, multiple can be Summoned per turn, and it's relatively easy to get out. Plus clears the field for almost nothing, giving automatic advantage.

 

Phantom= Copying any monster's effect can be abused, and create a multitude of OTK's or OTK possibilities.

 

(( I don't agree with all the cards on this list, I'm just giving out reasons for why the ones I do agree with would be there, or why they would be if I don't ))

[Tabris]

Malicious= Allows for very easy and quick Synchro Summons to be done. Multiples in one turn for the cost of practically nothing, because you can discard for a card effect or for Destiny Draw.

 

Instant Fusion, anyone?

 

Brain Control= Well, I guess it would be because it makes Tributing and lucking out easier.

 

About its only use is for Tribute and Synchro Summons (and the random attack for game). Tell me: what's wrong widdat?

 

Marshy= No need to get rid of an okay monster. Lots of cards that do piercing damage, and if your opponent is smart, they will run destruction. But on this list, I think they got rid of most of it? Anyway, stall still needs so support.

 

I want it at 3. There's plenty of monster removal around: don't tell me you can't get rid of a Marsh (or even 3) after 5 or 6 turns.

 

Judgment= Well, multiple can be Summoned per turn, and it's relatively easy to get out. Plus clears the field for almost nothing, giving automatic advantage.

 

The real query here is: does the summoning conditions stop it from being a beast? I argue that it does, to the extent that it would be only used in the late game.

 

Phantom= Copying any monster's effect can be abused, and create a multitude of OTK's or OTK possibilities.

 

Then check the monsters it copies.

---

I demand reasoning for Destiny Hero - Disk Commander being unlimited.

 

This one was one of the hardest decisions I had to make. But' date=' without the Holy Trinity of Recursion, the lack of things to draw into, and the lack of splashable cards that can actually bring it back, it really had no reason to be banned. But please, discuss it with me.

[/quote']

 

Destiny Hero - Fear Monger, Graceful Revival, and Limit Reverse.

 

Those cards and Disk Commander allow you to draw up to 18 cards.

 

There's the problem of actually buildin' a deck with the aforementioned cards, along with a measure of consistency, and a win condition.

 

I contend that Disk Commander isn't broken as a deck built around its draw power would be lacking on either A) consistency or B) win condition.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

Anyhow' date=' mine own queries:

 

BANNED: Brain Control, Judgment Dragon, Phantom of Chaos, Trap Dustshoot

 

LIMITED: Chain Strike, Magic Cylinder, Marshmallon, Mirror Force, Spirit Reaper

 

SEMI-LIMITED: Destiny Hero - Malicious

 

Why?

[/quote']

 

Brain Control: Taking control of an opponent's monster should be suitably costed. Even though, theoretically, this format is slow enough to allow a player to viably Set monsters, it's also slow enough that the switch of control of 1 monster for 1 turn that can do everything a monster is normally capable of is, quite simply, unacceptable. Not to mention that, in the era of Synchros, it allows for any and all decks easy and fast access to many, if not all, Synchros. I would rather not have Synchros be so accessible, as it sets a bad precedent for future cards. If Synchros didn't exist, then this card could be at 3, but it would still be arguable for 0, I believe.

 

Judgment Dragon: It wipes the field for 1000 LP, which is almost a universal unacceptable effect for a monster, and it's summoning requirement is laughable.

 

Phantom of Chaos: Because it bypasses too many restrictions on too many cards. Right now, I suppose that Plasma could be in its place, but it might as well be here now, as sooner or later another card that this card can abuse that isn't in that of itself broken will come along. In case you can't get my point, I'm saying that PoC makes Plasma become something that's totally acceptable into something that needs looking into.

 

Trap Dustshoot: A costed Forceful Sentry. Seeing a hand and dumping a card in it back to the deck is an unacceptable effect in my book.

 

Chain Strike: At 1, it does practically nothing in terms of damage. At anything above 1, it causes problems, and elevates Chain Burn to a level where it start performing obscenely well (although that isn't necessarily a problem in that of itself).

 

Magic Cylinder: I find that, in multiples, it tends to stack damage too high and too quickly, although I'm, admittedly, on the fence.

 

Marshmallon: You know, I really can't remember.

 

Mirror Force: At 0, it allows Aggro to overextend too much. At 3, it kills Aggro. 2 is lol. Therefor, it is at 1.

 

Spirit Reaper: See Marshmallon.

 

Destiny Hero - Malicious: With the advent of Synchros, anything that can bring them out this fast and this consistently shouldn't be allowed to function effectively. Without Synchros, it should be at 3, but...

---

What is this topic i don't even

 

That being said:

 

Disk Commander? Really?

Accumulated Fortune? Really?

Magician of Faith? Really?

 

And:

I always just skip to the "NEW!" section and noticed you didn't have CoSR listed as "NEW!" I laughed' date=' but scrolled up and saw that it was mentioned.q

[/quote']

 

I've already touched on Disk.

 

I just forgot about Accumulated Fortune.

 

I forgot about MoF, too.

[Phantom Roxas]

Ctrl+F: Toon Table of Contests

 

Text not found.

 

Care to explain?

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Instant Fusion' date=' anyone?

[b']Only 1 Instant Fusion per turn, costs 1000 Life Points, doesn't support a Deck Type, and puts a limit on your Extra Deck.[/b]

 

About its only use is for Tribute and Synchro Summons (and the random attack for game). Tell me: what's wrong widdat?

When your opponent has 2 or less monsters, this card can turn the tides of the situation.

 

I want it at 3. There's plenty of monster removal around: don't tell me you can't get rid of a Marsh (or even 3) after 5 or 6 turns.

Not all decks run enough monster removal. Reaper can be destroyed by multiple means, but Marshy can do continual damage under circumstances, and also provides a useful wall.

 

The real query here is: does the summoning conditions stop it from being a beast? I argue that it does, to the extent that it would be only used in the late game.

Still creates OTK possibilites, and makes it nearly impossible to defend yourself late game, even if it was used late game. Which it isn't all the time, just like DAD.

 

Then check the monsters it copies.

Not all of them deserve to be banned. The card makes it possible to use their effects without the cost of using the card itself, though. Not to mention can be used in other ways, as well.

[Tabris]

One at a time.

 

Brain Control: Taking control of an opponent's monster should be suitably costed. Even though, theoretically, this format is slow enough to allow a player to viably Set monsters, it's also slow enough that the switch of control of 1 monster for 1 turn that can do everything a monster is normally capable of is, quite simply, unacceptable. Not to mention that, in the era of Synchros, it allows for any and all decks easy and fast access to many, if not all, Synchros. I would rather not have Synchros be so accessible, as it sets a bad precedent for future cards. If Synchros didn't exist, then this card could be at 3, but it would still be arguable for 0, I believe.

 

Here's mine reasoning for the unlimiting of Brain Control: Brain's only use is with Tribute and Synchro Summons (which have the distinct similarity in that they both specify a monster that fulfills their respective ordinances, the Tribute monster in case of Tribute Summons, and the Tuner, as with Synchro Summons) as well as with direct attacks (which serve basically nothing, unless you end the game the turn you use Brain).

 

Phantom of Chaos: Because it bypasses too many restrictions on too many cards. Right now, I suppose that Plasma could be in its place, but it might as well be here now, as sooner or later another card that this card can abuse that isn't in that of itself broken will come along. In case you can't get my point, I'm saying that PoC makes Plasma become something that's totally acceptable into something that needs looking into.

 

Using this also entails that the effect of that monster that you're usin' could be used during the turn you use PoC's effect, and that the effect could rapidly throw the game in your favor.

 

Think of a card that does both. If you cite such, I can assure you that they're broken.

[The Dark One]

Monsters: 20

2 Caius

2 Malicious

3 Dasher

 

2 Fear Monger

1 Disk Commander

2 Exiled Force

2 Card Trooper

1 Stratos

1 Dark Grepher

2 Psychic Jumper

2 Krebons

 

Spells: 14

3 ROTA

1 MST

1 Trunade

3 Teleport

3 Allure

3 D-Draw

 

Traps: 6

3 Limit Reverse

3 Graceful Revival

 

If you tell me this deck doesn't have a win condition, I'll laugh in your face.

[Tabris]

Trap Dustshoot: A costed Forceful Sentry. Seeing a hand and dumping a card in it back to the deck is an unacceptable effect in my book.

 

The real query, though, is: is the restriction enough to allow it at 3 or not?

 

Magic Cylinder: I find that, in multiples, it tends to stack damage too high and too quickly, although I'm, admittedly, on the fence.

 

It doesn't interact with itself, at least not directly. I argue for it to be unlimited, for the same reason that Reckless Greed is unlimited.

 

Marshmallon: You know, I really can't remember.

 

So you have an impenetrable wall - and you can't deal with it, over 5 or 10 turns?

 

Destiny Hero - Malicious: With the advent of Synchros, anything that can bring them out this fast and this consistently shouldn't be allowed to function effectively. Without Synchros, it should be at 3, but...

 

This also implies that Synchros in question might be broken. Prove that they aren't, first.

---

Monsters: 20

2 Caius

2 Malicious

3 Dasher

 

2 Fear Monger

1 Disk Commander

2 Exiled Force

2 Card Trooper

1 Stratos

1 Dark Grepher

2 Psychic Jumper

2 Krebons

 

Spells: 14

3 ROTA

1 MST

1 Trunade

3 Teleport

3 Allure

3 D-Draw

 

Traps: 6

3 Limit Reverse

3 Graceful Revival

 

If you tell me this deck doesn't have a win condition' date=' I'll laugh in your face.

[/quote']

 

Is it consistent? If not, I'll do worse.

[CrabHelmet]

Regarding OTK's:

 

Banning every OTK, especially combo-based OTK's, is not viable and limits other valid deck construction possibilities.

 

Individual cards that OTK and that serve to purpose other than to facilitate OTK's should be banned. Other OTK strategies that become powerful enough to have a significant effect on the game should also be banned. OTK's that can neither be traced to a single problem card that serves no purpose other than to OTK nor can work efficiently or consistently enough to significantly impact the game can be left untouched, as this allows the component cards to be used in other, valid strategies.

 

The key aspect of Lyla that differentiates it from Breaker is that Lyla cannot attack after using its effect - and, with only 200 DEF, can easily be killed by battle next turn by even a weak monster.

 

The entire argument against banning Trap Dustshoot - at least, from the posts I've seen made by Quiff - is that it becomes a dead draw later in the game. And because Quiff parrots Nuuuuf, it follows that this is Nuuuuf's argument as well. And since I haven't seen Tabris offer any other arguments - the only thing he's mentioned is its "cost" in the form of an activation condition, which is basically Quiff's argument - it follows that this is also Tabris's argument against banning Trap Dustshoot. What this argument ignores is the effect that Trap Dustshoot has early in the game, especially in the opening hand - it's a chainable 1-for-1 with a free hand look that doesn't prepare the opponent's graveyard, and as such provides incredible advantage to the user for the highly skilled move of... drawing it. >_> After the first couple of turns, it simply punishes the opponent for playing intelligently by conserving hand advantage.

 

I see that you have left Reversal Quiz and Equalizer at 3, even though neither serves any purpose other than to OTK, and they can now do so more easily than ever thanks to 3 Wall of Revealing Light. I'd love to hear an explanation of this.

 

I'd like to hear the logic behind Accumulated Fortune, too - is it an Atem parrot, or did you put thought into its impact on the game and independently conclude that it belongs at 0?

[sbdnate]

zombie master+zombie world+disc commander= no!!!

[werewolfjedi]

Monsters: 20

2 Caius

2 Malicious

3 Dasher

 

2 Fear Monger

1 Disk Commander

2 Exiled Force

2 Card Trooper

1 Stratos

1 Dark Grepher

2 Psychic Jumper

2 Krebons

 

Spells: 14

3 ROTA

1 MST

1 Trunade

3 Teleport

3 Allure

3 D-Draw

 

Traps: 6

3 Limit Reverse

3 Graceful Revival

 

If you tell me this deck doesn't have a win condition' date=' I'll laugh in your face.

[/quote']

 

needs more cowbell.

 

honestly though, that doesn't have a win condition, it doesn't need one, it just beats you in the face all day. (nice :P)

 

and by the way, my spellcaster deck only loses 2 cards from this list, breaker and gorz, and it still able to stop DAD (I find that kycoo stops the important parts of the speed of the deck, namely mal {leaving them without sync) and DAD effect which forces it to run into my traps.)

---

also, you ban tempest but not village? are you crazy? you don't leave a theme wounded, it makes them pissy and then it tries to eat your face.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

I see that you have left Reversal Quiz and Equalizer at 3' date=' even though neither serves any purpose other than to OTK, and they can now do so more easily than ever thanks to 3 Wall of Revealing Light. I'd love to hear an explanation of this.

[/quote']

 

Hey, I'm human. I forgot some things.

 

I'd like to hear the logic behind Accumulated Fortune, too - is it an Atem parrot, or did you put thought into its impact on the game and independently conclude that it belongs at 0?

 

3 MST, 3 Book of Moon, 3 PWWB, 3 Reckless Greed, 3 Enemy Controller, etc. There are far too many chainables that can be run in far too many decks to allow Accumulated Fortune to be legal. Accumulated Fortune differentiates itself from Disk in that the cards used to bring back Disk don't have many other targets to hit, while the things that can activate Accumulated Fortune have a whole variety of purposes, and, indeed, will be used for far more things than activating Accumulated Fortune.

---

also' date=' you ban tempest but not village? are you crazy? you don't leave a theme wounded, it makes them pissy and then it tries to eat your face.

[/quote']

 

Tempest is an OTK machine. Literally, it makes OTKs out of the most dull circumstances.

 

Village isn't broken, its effect is reliant on having a certain Type of monster on the field while your opponent doesn't, and it doesn't have any real built-in protection.

[CrabHelmet]

I'd like to hear the logic behind Accumulated Fortune' date=' too - is it an Atem parrot, or did you put thought into its impact on the game and independently conclude that it belongs at 0?

[/quote']

 

3 MST, 3 Book of Moon, 3 PWWB, 3 Reckless Greed, 3 Enemy Controller, etc. There are far too many chainables that can be run in far too many decks to allow Accumulated Fortune to be legal. Accumulated Fortune differentiates itself from Disk in that the cards used to bring back Disk don't have many other targets to hit, while the things that can activate Accumulated Fortune have a whole variety of purposes, and, indeed, will be used for far more things than activating Accumulated Fortune.

 

How often is one going to encounter circumstances in which one finds it beneficial to chain Book of Moon, Enemy Controller, and Phoenix Wing Wind Blast together? And let's not forget that Accumulated Fortune cannot be used if you do not control three cards.

[Phantom Roxas]

Ctrl+F: Toon Table of Contests

 

Text not found.

 

Care to explain?

[CrabHelmet]

Also, why is Cyber End Dragon at 3?

[Tabris]

Cyber End should be at 3.

 

It's a 4000 ATK trampler. Oooooh, so scary.

[Phantom Roxas]

Cyber End should be at 3.

 

It's a 4000 ATK trampler. Oooooh' date=' so scary.

[/quote']

 

You're right, at least it's not a Machine that can pierce.

 

Owait.

[CrabHelmet]

Cyber End should be at 3.

 

It's a 4000 ATK trampler. Oooooh' date=' so scary.

[/quote']

 

You're right, at least it's not a Machine that can pierce.

 

Owait.

 

In the absence of Limiter Removal, being a Machine isn't all that important. And Tabris already said it could pierce; that's what "trampler" means.

[Phantom Roxas]

Cyber End should be at 3.

 

It's a 4000 ATK trampler. Oooooh' date=' so scary.

[/quote']

 

You're right, at least it's not a Machine that can pierce.

 

Owait.

 

In the absence of Limiter Removal, being a Machine isn't all that important. And Tabris already said it could pierce; that's what "trampler" means.

 

You're right about Limiter Removal, but I couldn't remember if "trampler" meant "beatstick" or "piercer", but I was leaning towards pierce....

 

I can't really think of any reasons as to where Cyber End Dragon should be on the banlist.

[CrabHelmet]

Cyber End should be at 3.

 

It's a 4000 ATK trampler. Oooooh' date=' so scary.

[/quote']

 

You're right, at least it's not a Machine that can pierce.

 

Owait.

 

In the absence of Limiter Removal, being a Machine isn't all that important. And Tabris already said it could pierce; that's what "trampler" means.

 

You're right about Limiter Removal, but I couldn't remember if "trampler" meant "beatstick" or "piercer", but I was leaning towards pierce....

 

"Trample" is the Magic term for basically the same effect.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

I can't really think of any reasons as to where Cyber End Dragon should be on the banlist.

 

Metamorphosis and Magical Reflect Slime.

[Tabris]

... and you bring out a 4000 ATK monster... owait...

 

... should I fear those Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragons and Masters of Oz, now?

[CrabHelmet]

I can't really think of any reasons as to where Cyber End Dragon should be on the banlist.

 

Metamorphosis and Magical Reflect Slime.

 

Metal Reflect' date=' not Magical Reflect.

 

... and you bring out a 4000 ATK monster... owait...

 

... should I fear those Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragons and Masters of Oz, now?

 

Neither tramples, and BEUD is virtually impossible to summon with Metamorphosis (and the only card that can easily be used with Metamorphosis for Master of Oz is Winged Kuriboh LV9).

[Tabris]

... and why should I fear trample on a 4000 ATK beatstick?

[Phantom Roxas]

Because it's incredibly easy to summon.