Tragoedia [DISC]

[Lemniscate]

Wow. I luv this card. I am sad to know that this could be banned. If it is, I'll just run it in Traditional. If it's not, then hooray!!!!

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Like they haven't already killed battle.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

LOL so true. At this rate Burn'll rule the meta. xD

[Toffee.]

Well' date=' every Deck in Jap. Tournaments runs it at 3, so hopefully it's not a Golden Sarc. again.

[/quote']

 

*Slaps*

Thats EXACTLY it!

 

*it comes to america*

The price is $327

 

Good game guys, Good game...

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

If they release it in the TCG and make it a Secret or insane short print (like CCV) Konami will be nuked.

[A●O●J]

Pic and effect is like a Muka Muka from hell, lol

[Chevalier]

I am sad to know that this could be banned.

 

There's nothing saying that besides a know-nothing member on YCM. So it's safe to say it won't be.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

I am sad to know that this could be banned.

 

There's nothing saying that besides a know-nothing member on YCM. So it's safe to say it won't be.

 

What, should there be an announcement on Upper Deck saying it'll be banned when it comes to TCG or something?…

 

It's banworthy, but probably won't be banned. Konami doesn't want to stop making money.

[Azuh]

Any money this would be the SJC promo for this year

 

Its either this, or Obelisk the Tormentor

[Chevalier]

What' date=' should there be an announcement on Upper Deck saying it'll be banned when it comes to TCG or something?…

 

It's banworthy, but probably won't be banned. Konami doesn't want to stop making money.

[/quote']

 

If it's not banned in the OCG, chances it won't be banned here.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

What' date=' should there be an announcement on Upper Deck saying it'll be banned when it comes to TCG or something?…

 

It's banworthy, but probably won't be banned. Konami doesn't want to stop making money.

[/quote']

 

If it's not banned in the OCG, chances it won't be banned here.

 

The banlists between TCG and OCG are synonymous, right? The reason it won't be banned there is the same as it will be here.

[Lemniscate]

I am sad to know that this could be banned.

 

There's nothing saying that besides a know-nothing member on YCM. So it's safe to say it won't be.

 

did you notice I put the word "could"

Learn to read before you comment.

[The Dark One]

What' date=' should there be an announcement on Upper Deck saying it'll be banned when it comes to TCG or something?…

 

It's banworthy, but probably won't be banned. Konami doesn't want to stop making money.

[/quote']

 

If it's not banned in the OCG, chances it won't be banned here.

 

The banlists between TCG and OCG are synonymous, right? The reason it won't be banned there is the same as it will be here.

 

And that reason is simply that Konami is a company composed of greedy money hogs with no regard for the viability of the game.

[Tabris]

To Star and Dark Edo Phoenix:

 

Tragoedia isn't. Not in the slightest, unless this current metagame has influenced you to believe that anythin' helpin' Synchros is inanely banworthy in itself. Special Summon upon Battle Damage/overhyped Enraged Muka-Muka/inanely weak Brain Control/makeshift Fiend Deity Roar Raven amalmagate is hardly broken in mine book. None of the effects so stated are.

 

I'll explain if you want to.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

What' date=' should there be an announcement on Upper Deck saying it'll be banned when it comes to TCG or something?…

 

It's banworthy, but probably won't be banned. Konami doesn't want to stop making money.

[/quote']

 

If it's not banned in the OCG, chances it won't be banned here.

 

The banlists between TCG and OCG are synonymous, right? The reason it won't be banned there is the same as it will be here.

 

And that reason is simply that Konami is a company composed of greedy money hogs with no regard for the viability of the game.

ding ding ding

[RyanAtlus]

Great for Synchroying and playing with high-levels.

[The Dark One]

To Star and Dark Edo Phoenix:

 

Tragoedia isn't. Not in the slightest' date=' unless this current metagame has influenced you to believe that anythin' helpin' Synchros is inanely banworthy in itself. Special Summon upon Battle Damage/overhyped Enraged Muka-Muka/inanely weak Brain Control/makeshift Fiend Deity Roar Raven amalmagate is hardly broken in mine book. None of the effects so stated are.

 

I'll explain if you want to.

[/quote']

 

And I actually had some respect for you...

 

It supports the same opening play pass that Gorz does. If you just pass, and your opponent attacks, than you can drop down a 3000 ATK beatstick with two more than decent effects. It also prevents your opponent from ever having any certainty about the battle phase. He or she can no longer rest assured that his Stratos will manage to attack over your Armageddon Knight without fear of consequences. Yes, Honest does the same thing, in perhaps an even more direct manner, but Honest is limited to light monsters, and it also does not have the added effects of being an easy synchro or most importantly, a Brain Control.

 

Note that Brain Control itself is banworthy. While Tragoedia's effect isn't actually as good as that of Brain Control, the very fact that he can turn every card in your hand into a makeshift brain control makes his damage to the game irreparable. Furthermore, the limitations of his effect aren't even that severe. What's the most commonly played level of monster in the game? lv4. Therefore, what will most likely be on your opponent's side of the field? a four star. And what will you mosst likely have in your hand? a four star.

 

Also, there are plenty of level sixes around, Malicious being the most prominent, so Tragoedia can still snatch Goyo. The only bit of difficulty he runs into is the snatching of Stardust and the other level 8s. Big deal? He can run over Stardust or Thought Ruler, the two most common level 8's, if it's early in the game. And if you can't do that?-Well, at least there's a tiny flaw in Tragoedia.

[Chevalier]

did you notice I put the word "could"

Learn to read before you comment.

 

That's like me saying that Shapesnatch will be banned tomorrow. It could happen. If you'd notice, my statement, much like your own has nothing to back it up.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

To Star and Dark Edo Phoenix:

 

Tragoedia isn't. Not in the slightest' date=' unless this current metagame has influenced you to believe that anythin' helpin' Synchros is inanely banworthy in itself. Special Summon upon Battle Damage/overhyped Enraged Muka-Muka/inanely weak Brain Control/makeshift Fiend Deity Roar Raven amalmagate is hardly broken in mine book. None of the effects so stated are.

 

I'll explain if you want to.

[/quote']

 

And I actually had some respect for you...

 

It supports the same opening play pass that Gorz does. If you just pass, and your opponent attacks, than you can drop down a 3000 ATK beatstick with two more than decent effects. It also prevents your opponent from ever having any certainty about the battle phase. He or she can no longer rest assured that his Stratos will manage to attack over your Armageddon Knight without fear of consequences. Yes, Honest does the same thing, in perhaps an even more direct manner, but Honest is limited to light monsters, and it also does not have the added effects of being an easy synchro or most importantly, a Brain Control.

 

Note that Brain Control itself is banworthy. While Tragoedia's effect isn't actually as good as that of Brain Control, the very fact that he can turn every card in your hand into a makeshift brain control makes his damage to the game irreparable. Furthermore, the limitations of his effect aren't even that severe. What's the most commonly played level of monster in the game? lv4. Therefore, what will most likely be on your opponent's side of the field? a four star. And what will you mosst likely have in your hand? a four star.

 

Also, there are plenty of level sixes around, Malicious being the most prominent, so Tragoedia can still snatch Goyo. The only bit of difficulty he runs into is the snatching of Stardust and the other level 8s. Big deal? He can run over Stardust or Thought Ruler, the two most common level 8's, if it's early in the game. And if you can't do that?-Well, at least there's a tiny flaw in Tragoedia.

 

Repworthy post.

[Lemniscate]

did you notice I put the word "could"

Learn to read before you comment.

 

That's like me saying that Shapesnatch will be banned tomorrow. It could happen. If you'd notice' date=' my statement, much like your own has nothing to back it up.

[/quote']

 

ah, the wonders of politics. Say something that means absolutely nothing. But that some people might inherently accept as true with lack of analysis.

[Tabris]

 

And I actually had some respect for you...

 

It supports the same opening play pass that Gorz does. If you just pass' date=' and your opponent attacks, than you can drop down a 3000 ATK beatstick with two more than decent effects. It also prevents your opponent from ever having any certainty about the battle phase. He or she can no longer rest assured that his Stratos will manage to attack over your Armageddon Knight without fear of consequences. Yes, Honest does the same thing, in perhaps an even more direct manner, but Honest is limited to light monsters, and it also does not have the added effects of being an easy synchro or most importantly, a Brain Control.

 

Note that Brain Control itself is banworthy. While Tragoedia's effect isn't actually as good as that of Brain Control, the very fact that he can turn every card in your hand into a makeshift brain control makes his damage to the game irreparable. Furthermore, the limitations of his effect aren't even that severe. What's the most commonly played level of monster in the game? lv4. Therefore, what will most likely be on your opponent's side of the field? a four star. And what will you mosst likely have in your hand? a four star.

 

Also, there are plenty of level sixes around, Malicious being the most prominent, so Tragoedia can still snatch Goyo. The only bit of difficulty he runs into is the snatching of Stardust and the other level 8s. Big deal? He can run over Stardust or Thought Ruler, the two most common level 8's, if it's early in the game. And if you can't do that?-Well, at least there's a tiny flaw in Tragoedia.

[/quote']

 

If I'm readin' the effect right (and all indications are there to support mine allegation), Tragoedia's original ATK and DEF become 600 points per card in your hand. Early game, when you usually have a high amount of monsters in your hand, you'd easily reach 3000 ATK/DEF if your opponent dares attack. Mid- to late game? Except in certain builds (for instance, mine patented Begone, Knave! build), you'd rarely pass 2000, and I doubt you'd conserve your hand for that long.

 

Note that, in mine book, Brain Control isn't banworthy (I'll explain in a separate thread), and as we have an inanely weak version of such that gets some hype only because the most played Level in the game is LV(insert fav number here)... you get the drift.

 

In essence, and it's been showin' in mine playtestin', Tragoedia here is nothin' more than a well-built, balanced version of Gorz with extra (if awkward) support for Synchros and an inanely weak version of Brain.

[Chevalier]

If I'm readin' the effect right (and all indications are there to support mine allegation)' date=' Tragoedia's original ATK and DEF become 600 points per card in your hand. Early game, when you usually have a high amount of monsters in your hand, you'd easily reach 3000 ATK/DEF if your opponent dares attack. Mid- to late game? Except in certain builds (for instance, mine patented Begone, Knave! build), you'd rarely pass 2000, and I doubt you'd conserve your hand for that long.

 

Note that, in mine book, Brain Control isn't banworthy (I'll explain in a separate thread), and as we have an inanely weak version of such that gets some hype only because the most played Level in the game is LV(insert fav number here)... you get the drift.

 

In essence, and it's been showin' in mine playtestin', Tragoedia here is nothin' more than a well-built, balanced version of Gorz with extra (if awkward) support for Synchros and an inanely weak version of Brain.

[/quote']

 

Since you won't listen to logic. Think of this.

It's run at 3 in TeleDAD/Tele Zombie builds. If it's run at 3 in there, it must be pretty damn amazing. [/argument]

[Tabris]

Since you won't listen to logic. Think of this.

It's run at 3 in TeleDAD/Tele Zombie builds. If it's run at 3 in there, it must be pretty damn amazing.

 

Define: LOGIC.

 

Furthermore, seein' a particular card ran at 3 in many builds doesn't necessarily mean it's broken.

[Chevalier]

Furthermore' date=' seein' a particular card ran at 3 in many builds doesn't necessarily mean it's broken.

[/quote']

 

Broken/Really damn good

 

No. All the best decks in the format chose to use a bad card on purpose.[/sarcasm]

 

Mali at 3 in TeleDAD. Mali is really damn good. D-Draw at 3, D-Draw is really damn good. E-Tele/Krebs at 3, both are really damn good.

Hopefully common sense kicks in about now.

[The Dark One]

Note that Krebons is most certainly not a broken card. E-Teleport is the power behind him, and even that has a disputable place on the list. (Though obviously it should be 3 or 0) There is no obvious broken card in the combo that makes Tele-DAD playable, it's just the combo itself is so good that we run into issues. I would say killing Mallicious is a better answer than killing Teleport, because, good as Goyo is, his lack of a protection effect just makes him a hell of a lot less scary than the concept of staring down a Stardust and a Thought Ruler.

 

Also, there are many cards played in Tele-DAD that are not broken, though obviously they are all good. A card needn't be broken to be worth playing. For evidence let's take a look at Steven Harris's build. Plasma isn't broken. Armageddon Knight isn't broken. Dark Grepher isn't broken. Doomlord isn't broken..... And he was the Shonen Jump winner.

 

So basically, while the common existence of three copies of this card in the top deck does prove that it is either higly playable or has some very nasty combo potential, it does not necessarily mean that the card is broken. We must prove that through the lengthy process of logical deduction.

 

I know I'm sort of fighting against my own case here, but I'm not out to win, I'm out to make the truth evident, regardless of whether or not my initial conceptions really were the truth.

 

Now, @ Tabris:

Firstly, I'd like to throw out there that the limitation of the usefulness of an effect to the early game does not prevent that effect from being banworthy. Is it fair to be able to throw out a hugely sized beatstick simply because you took damage? Unless you also support the case that Gorz should remain legal, I think you would agree that this is unacceptable. (Admittedly, there are other factors regarding Gorz, including the fact that he is an inherent +1, and forces your opponent to deal with two monsters rather than one.)

 

Now, if we judge this to be unacceptable, than we must make the decision that it should never happen in a game. Therefore, even if the effect is only useful in the early game, it should be dealt with. Now, Trap Dustshoot proves that it is possible for a card to have a banworthy effect while still only being useful in the early game. So I must ask you, do you think Trap Dustshoot should remain untouched? That card is even more dependent on the time of game than this card, because you can purposely conserve your hand but you cannot do the same with your opponent's hand.

 

Also, again I'll state that Tragoedia's Brain Control effect is still unacceptable ONLY because it is reusable. If there was a level 4 monster that had 1800 ATK and the effect -Once during the game, you may discard a monster from your hand to take control of a monster on your opponent's side of the field of equal level until the end of the turn- I would probably judge it to be acceptable, though I do think it would still see some play. (Or at least it definitely would in a good format) However, it is the fact that this effect is reusable, combined with the fact taht it is stacked on top of a broken Special Sumon effect and a not broken but definitely decent Synchro-useful effect that make all of this a problem.