Official Pokemon Discussion. (The 5th gen starts now)

[Anbu-of-Sand]

All of them are on a list somewhere.

 

The lists, aside from Ubers and BL, are purely usage-based. Ubers is a banlist of sorts for OU and BL is a banlist of sorts for UU.

Ah thank you. In that case, I will be posting my Pokemon Team somewhere this week.

[Dark]

Aableye got really good this gen, so it isn't that bad. Granted he isn't up to OU level, but he isn't crap anymore.

 

 

Also, I got to ask, is it just me who wants to troll by using old Ubers?

 

And in other news, I might have finally finished my first team. I'll post in a bit.

 

I haven't even touched the BW metagame yet; I still need to listen to the BW Smogcast. And I haven't touched competitive battling for Gen IV in a while, either, so I'm extremely rusty and probably going to die in a fire soon.

 

Touche.

 

Well, Dream World abilities really messed stuff up.

 

Drought Ninetales, Drizzle Politoad, Speed Boost Blaziken...

 

I'm fine with Dream World abilities. =)

 

Ugh, level 1 Aron + Sandstorm + Sturdy + Shell Bell + Endeavor = HAAXXX!!!!!!

 

lololol

 

Genius.

 

I hate Nintendo. I HATE THEM. MEAN LOOK CAN NO LONGER BE BATON PASSED!

 

Explosion does half the power it used to, sleep gets reset if you switch out...

 

Baton Pass not passing Mean Look is pretty shitty, but things are a lot worse.

 

Speaking of tiers the first draft of the OU one is up. It's on smogon and I hope to posts the list this weekend, however as I've shown I might end up putting it off.

 

Link, por favor?

[burnpsy]

Link, por favor?

 

Flame Dragon was wrong. The list he saw was the Beta Server list.

[Flame Dragon]

Flame Dragon was wrong. The list he saw was the Beta Server list.

It's still a list though, and it helps give a general idea on what pokemon are doing well in this meta and who is shaping up to be in OU when the official list comes out.

 

[spoiler=First OU list]

# 1 - Shandera (15.03 %)

# 2 - Blaziken (12.49 %)

# 3 - Roobushin (11.25 %)

# 4 - Doryuuzu (10.99 %)

# 5 - Nattorei (10.90 %)

# 6 - Garchomp (10.34 %)

# 7 - Tyranitar (10.22 %)

# 8 - Breloom (9.30 %)

# 9 - Ditto (8.86 %)

# 10 - Urugamosu (8.65 %)

# 11 - Scizor (8.54 %)

# 12 - Sazandora (8.11 %)

# 13 - Gengar (7.98 %)

# 14 - Jarooda (7.44 %)

# 15 - Heatran (7.42 %)

# 16 - Burungeru (7.24 %)

# 17 - Hippowdon (6.85 %)

# 18 - Dragonite (6.75 %)

# 19 - Infernape (6.41 %)

# 20 - Starmie (6.32 %)

# 21 - Espeon (6.30 %)

# 22 - Zuruzukin (6.29 %)

# 23 - Ononokusu (6.28 %)

# 24 - Politoed (6.15 %)

# 25 - Kingdra (6.09 %)

# 26 - Ninetales (5.97 %)

# 27 - Metagross (5.96 %)

# 28 - Cloyster (5.84 %)

# 29 - Gyarados (5.74 %)

# 30 - Zoroaaku (5.67 %)

# 31 - Rankurusu (5.60 %)

# 32 - Salamence (5.41 %)

# 33 - Erufuun (5.26 %)

# 34 - Swampert (5.24 %)

# 35 - Zapdos (5.19 %)

# 36 - Gliscor (5.17 %)

# 37 - Forretress (5.07 %)

# 38 - Blissey (5.07 %)

# 39 - Skarmory (5.00 %)

# 40 - Vaporeon (4.68 %)

# 41 - Togekiss (4.62 %)

# 42 - Lucario (4.59 %)

# 43 - Porygon2 (4.54 %)

# 44 - Tentacruel (4.30 %)

# 45 - Jirachi (4.28 %)

# 46 - Machamp (4.26 %)

# 47 - Kojondo (4.19 %)

# 48 - Genosekuto (4.17 %)

# 49 - Randorosu (4.10 %)

# 50 - Kerudio (3.80 %)

# 51 - Latios (3.57 %)

# 52 - Borutorosu (3.56 %)

# 53 - Sableye (3.39 %)

# 54 - Terakion (3.31 %)

# 55 - Venusaur (3.30 %)

# 56 - Jolteon (3.29 %)

# 57 - Goruggo (3.23 %)

# 58 - Suicune (3.20 %)

# 59 - Ludicolo (3.19 %)

# 60 - Charizard (3.12 %)

# 61 - Hihidaruma (3.03 %)

# 62 - Mamoswine (3.02 %)

# 63 - Weavile (3.00 %)

 

 

[burnpsy]

The thing is, that's Beta's Dream World OU list, and their bans are different. >____<

[Flame Dragon]

The thing is, that's Beta's Dream World OU list, and their bans are different. >____

Beta has more pokemon banned then Smogon so I'll personally take that. Dream World does throw a wrench in the works but it since we will get most of the abilities anyway I don't think it's that big a problem.

[Grunt Issun]

wouldnt it be wierd if dream world changed more then just the ability? like moves, and egg groups?

[burnpsy]

wouldnt it be wierd if dream world changed more then just the ability? like moves, and egg groups?

 

They DO give moves, but changing egg groups (which are not visible in-game) would be somewhat stupid.

[Grunt Issun]

It would get rid of HSOWA, which is always fun

[Toffee.]

Beta has more pokemon banned then Smogon so I'll personally take that. Dream World does throw a wrench in the works but it since we will get most of the abilities anyway I don't think it's that big a problem.

Tsutarja's Dream World Ability is just broke xD

inb4noitsnotbecauseofhowyoucanabuseit

 

Also, i <3 it how Shandera became so popular

[Grunt Issun]

Tsutarja's english name is now snivy (Confirmed)

 

what a dumb name (also confirmed)

[Dark]

Shandera is popular only because of Shadow Tag, really.

 

# 43 - Porygon2 (4.54 %)

I JIZZED.

[Flame Dragon]

Shandera is popular only because of Shadow Tag, really.

 

# 43 - Porygon2 (4.54 %)

I JIZZED.

Yep. Shadow Tag is such a broken ability.

 

And yea, we're going to see a lot of NFE pokemon get use thanks to the pre-evo stone thing.

 

 

 

And since this is the competitive thread, what are your thoughts on Serene Grace and Flinch? Personally I think it's simply an unfun thing to use and face.

[Dark]

I refuse to give up my Iron Head Jirachi lead (although I don't know how it functions in BW), so I could care less if people use GraceFlinch on me.

[Tentacruel]

Thought I'd share something with you all. Agirudaa with max HP and Speed, and give it Death Gambit.

 

It makes a very impressive suicide lead, as most people don't see it coming (as of right now.)

 

However, that may change, and people might start to instantly switch to a Ghost-Type when they see it.

[Flame Dragon]

So I finally got around to making the easy to look at tier list.

 

[Tentacruel]

Could it be? Has Charizard finally taken his rightful place in OU?

[Flame Dragon]

Yea Char being that high made me happy. To bad I don't see him staying there.

 

Also, since I like the idea of banning abilities over the pokemon, another ability that seems really broken is Sudden Impulse. The ability ups 1 stat by two and lowers a different one by 1. If you stall long enough you can have a pokemon that just can't be killed. Between that and the need to follow the changes that are happening at every turn I do not feel it makes for fun or fair game play.

 

So thoughts on that, Grace, and Shadow Tag.

[burnpsy]

Charizard was OU before Stealth Rock came into existence. :/

 

In any case, it's been confirmed that banning abilities won't happen, and I agree with the stance that banning abilities has way too many flaws (for instance, not being able to tell the opponent has ability X when playing with THE ACTUAL GAME). No point in discussing.

[Bringerofcake]

KING JELLYFISH IS OU?!

 

[Flame Dragon]

Charizard was OU before Stealth Rock came into existence. :/

 

In any case, it's been confirmed that banning abilities won't happen, and I agree with the stance that banning abilities has way too many flaws (for instance, not being able to tell the opponent has ability X when playing with THE ACTUAL GAME). No point in discussing.

We was only OU back in the 2nd gen. He was BL the other two.

 

If you agree to not use those abilities then you can tell. Really, the same goes for something like sleep clause since that is something the community made. And yes i know it has several problems I just don't like banning several things when simply banning 1 thing would fix the problem (Shadow Tag is a great example).

 

Ok, side form that what do you think of the 3 abilities in question, Tag, Grace, and Impulse.

 

KING JELLYFISH IS OU?!

 

I think that face is better used for derp chicken (#22) as TAG calls it.

[burnpsy]

If you agree to not use those abilities then you can tell. Really, the same goes for something like sleep clause since that is something the community made. And yes i know it has several problems I just don't like banning several things when simply banning 1 thing would fix the problem (Shadow Tag is a great example).

 

Ok, side form that what do you think of the 3 abilities in question, Tag, Grace, and Impulse.

 

*agrees to not use serene grace but uses it anyways*

 

OH, I MUST BE VERY LUCKY IN ORDER TO BE FLINCHING YOU SO MANY TIMES IN A ROW.

 

Not to mention, some Pokemon ONLY have that ability.

 

I still don't really want to discuss the abilities. None of them really seem broken, just strategic. If they were centralizing, the abusers be at the top every time. This only seems to be true for Shanderaa.

[Flame Dragon]

*agrees to not use serene grace but uses it anyways*

 

OH, I MUST BE VERY LUCKY IN ORDER TO BE FLINCHING YOU SO MANY TIMES IN A ROW.

 

Not to mention, some Pokemon ONLY have that ability.

 

I still don't really want to discuss the abilities. None of them really seem broken, just strategic. If they were centralizing, the abusers be at the top every time. This only seems to be true for Shanderaa.

Agrees not to put two pokemon asleep but does so any way. That goes for a lot of the clauses we play by.

 

Unless you have a pokemon that can take several hits and be able to OHKO back flinch haxs will often kill a pokemon. While Skymin is the worse by far, even Scarf Rachi can put whole in team if they don't have a pokemon that can take several Iron Heads.

 

This is a problem for Grace, but doesn't hold true for Tag and Impulse.

 

How is flinch hax, killing switching, and random changes to stats strategic?

Their is no strategy when your only goal is to hope you can flinch your counter to death.

Shadow Tag kills strategy since switching is a huge part of it.

Impulse is pure luck between getting good stat changes and getting an evasion boost to laugh at the opponent as they miss all their attacks.

 

and just to show how bad Impulse is Bibarel swept my whole team last night. Now given the choice of banning the pokemon that get that ability or just the ability the choice isn't hard.

 

 

Also Rachi was one of the highest pokemon on last gens OU list. Part of that is due to Iron Head haxs. As for Impulse it has recently gotten a HUGE following, and will show up soon enough near the top.

[burnpsy]

Agrees not to put two pokemon asleep but does so any way. That goes for a lot of the clauses we play by.

 

Unless you have a pokemon that can take several hits and be able to OHKO back flinch haxs will often kill a pokemon. While Skymin is the worse by far, even Scarf Rachi can put whole in team if they don't have a pokemon that can take several Iron Heads.

 

This is a problem for Grace, but doesn't hold true for Tag and Impulse.

 

and just to show how bad Impulse is Bibarel swept my whole team last night. Now given the choice of banning the pokemon that get that ability or just the ability the choice isn't hard.

 

 

Also Rachi was one of the highest pokemon on last gens OU list. Part of that is due to Iron Head haxs. As for Impulse it has recently gotten a HUGE following, and will show up soon enough near the top.

 

Your counterargument, while quick thinking would make you think it is valid, is an complete failure. My point is that most abilities aren't explicitly shown to your opponent. You can tell when your opponent breaks sleep clause or species clause, and there's already a common way it is handled on Wi-Fi (refuse to continue the game until your opponent surrenders for breaking the rules). All of the current clauses are visible mid-game on the actual game.

 

As I said, I'm not discussing abilities.

 

Just because a new ability made Bibarel usable doesn't mean the ability is broken. Besides, this is the generation of broken stuff. Plus, you still haven't fielded the second-largest problem. Many Pokemon get only one ability, said ability sometimes being that objectionable one.

 

Jirachi was high up due to being a good utility revenger, and a good CM sweeper.

 

In any case, it's been confirmed that abilities aren't getting hit. This argument is meaningless.

[Flame Dragon]

Your counterargument, while quick thinking would make you think it is valid, is an complete failure. My point is that most abilities aren't explicitly shown to your opponent. You can tell when your opponent breaks sleep clause or species clause, and there's already a common way it is handled on Wi-Fi (refuse to continue the game until your opponent surrenders for breaking the rules). All of the current clauses are visible mid-game on the actual game.

Soul Dew clause. While we don't have soul dew atm, in the past we have had it and as such a precedent has been set that a clauses can be made that can't be seen. This means you could do that same thing for an ability clause. Also both Impulse and Tag can be seen so when you see it you can do the same thing should some one break the clause, refuse to play until the opponent surrender.

 

Just because a new ability made Bibarel usable doesn't mean the ability is broken. Besides, this is the generation of broken stuff. Plus, you still haven't fielded the second-largest problem. Many Pokemon get only one ability, said ability sometimes being that objectionable one.

Yes I did. I said I know Grace would have that problem and as such wouldn't really work. The pokemon with Tag and and Impulse on the other hand do have other abilities so banning 1 of them wouldn't hurt them.

 

And smogon hates evasion, and as such we already have a clause to kill it. Impulse side steps evasion clause, so it's easy to assume either that or the pokemon that get it will be moved to ubers. With that said I don't see it being good to ban the 7 pokemon that have it when simply banning the ability would work much better.

 

In any case, it's been confirmed that abilities aren't getting hit. This argument is meaningless.

This argument isn't meaningless since people can make the same one on smogon to cause the powers that be to reverse this call.