werewolfjedi Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I'm talking about the "good" banlist. this idea of a "good" banlist is absurd without some sort of consensus to as to what it is. what exactly is a good banlist? what is it suppose to do? make everything equal? how can that even be possible? so then I will pose these two questions. what is the "good" banlist? I will put on this on this post, a list of every card you people prove to be broken enough to be banable. the current list:banned allure of darknesscrush card viruspainful choiceYata Garasu card of safe returnDark Magician of Chaos -Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End-Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beggining limited elemental hero stratos semi-limited and the second question;what is the best decktype in this banlist? I'm saying deck-type, not deck, because in a good banlist, from my point of view, there should be more than one deck that is near "the best". just trying to get you people to think, and over time, I hope that this list becomes at least the bare bones of any decent ban list on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Scapegoat and Magician of Faith would be at 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 you need to go the other way around, I asked for cards that need to be banned, not cards that should be un-banned. if you didn't notice there is no list yet, this is not a mistake, I'm asking for arguments for why a card should be semi-limited, limited, or banned. any card not on the list, is not limited in any way by this ban list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
「tea.leaf」 Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Ban Crush Card Virus; the brokenness of this card has been discusses I don't know how many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyosuke Kiryu Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Although Yata-Lock is fun..Yata Garasu is banworthy. But thats obvious.Solemn Judgment Limitable.And Surprisingly Vennominaga Deity Of Poisonous Snakes Is So Broken, what possesed them to give that card a alternate win condition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Ban Crush Card Virus; the brokenness of this card has been discusses I don't know how many times.I'll give you that' date=' CCV going on the list.Although Yata-Lock is fun..Yata Garasu is banworthy. But thats obvious.Solemn Judgment Limitable.And Surprisingly Vennominaga Deity Of Poisonous Snakes Is So Broken, what possesed them to give that card a alternate win condition?I'll give you yata, but you need to prove the other cards a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyosuke Kiryu Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Well Activate snake rain 3 times discard 3 reptiles send 4 reptiles to the graveyard for each snake rain that's 15 reptiles that's 7500 ATK and VDoPS only needs to inflict damage to your opponent 3 times to automatically win, fairy meteor crush anyone?Also I think CED-EoTE and BLS-EoTB should be limited, bring back chaos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Star Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Well Activate snake rain 3 times discard 3 reptiles send 4 reptiles to the graveyard for each snake rain that's 15 reptiles that's 7500 ATK and VDoPS only needs to inflict damage to your opponent 3 times to automatically win' date=' fairy meteor crush anyone?Also I think CED-EoTE and BLS-EoTB should be limited, bring back chaos![/quote'] I hope that entire post was a joke. Especially the last sentence. Ban Painful Choice. It allows way too much control over your Deck, and you can basically set yourself up for the win without a problem. You can choose whatever card(s) you might need to win, and get them in your Graveyard/hand for no cost at all. Plus, it thins your Deck. Not that that's a banworthy thing, but it is an added bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Well Activate snake rain 3 times discard 3 reptiles send 4 reptiles to the graveyard for each snake rain that's 15 reptiles that's 7500 ATK and VDoPS only needs to inflict damage to your opponent 3 times to automatically win' date=' fairy meteor crush anyone?Also I think CED-EoTE and BLS-EoTB should be limited, bring back chaos![/quote'] that needs 6 cards in hand, with six cards in hand plus a boss monster on the field, anyone could win..and by your reasoning, it is snake rain that needs to banned, not deity.Well Activate snake rain 3 times discard 3 reptiles send 4 reptiles to the graveyard for each snake rain that's 15 reptiles that's 7500 ATK and VDoPS only needs to inflict damage to your opponent 3 times to automatically win' date=' fairy meteor crush anyone?Also I think CED-EoTE and BLS-EoTB should be limited, bring back chaos![/quote'] I hope that entire post was a joke. Especially the last sentence. Ban Painful Choice. It allows way too much control over your Deck, and you can basically set yourself up for the win without a problem. You can choose whatever card(s) you might need to win, and get them in your Graveyard/hand for no cost at all. Plus, it thins your Deck. Not that that's a banworthy thing, but it is an added bonus.agreed, painful choice is banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyosuke Kiryu Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I was joking about chaos...Anyways atleast limit snake rain.Limit Jinzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PikaPerson01 Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 + The current banlist (Just the Forbidden section)- MoF- Metamorphosis + DAD+ JD+ Gorz+ CCV+ CoSR+ Breaker+ Sangan+ Monster Reborn+ Chaos Sorcerer+ CyDra+ Cyber Twin+ Cyber End+ Chimeratech OverDragon+ Chimeratech Fortress Dragon+ Snipe + Treeborn + Brain Control+ Megamorph+ United We Stand+ Return from a Diff Dim+ Limiter Removal+ Trap Dustshoot+ PoC+ X-Saber Airbellum Eh, probably something else I forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyosuke Kiryu Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 ^^^ You forgot Mage Power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Emo~ Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 + The current banlist (Just the Forbidden section)- MoF- Metamorphosis + DAD+ JD+ Gorz+ CCV+ CoSR+ Breaker+ Sangan+ Monster Reborn+ Chaos Sorcerer+ CyDra+ Cyber Twin+ Cyber End+ Chimeratech OverDragon+ Chimeratech Fortress Dragon+ Snipe + Treeborn + Brain Control+ Megamorph+ United We Stand+ Return from a Diff Dim+ Limiter Removal+ Trap Dustshoot+ PoC+ X-Saber Airbellum Eh' date=' probably something else I forgot.[/quote'] @bold. No. I don't like that. Allure should be limited as well as all 3 chaos monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 + The current banlist (Just the Forbidden section)- MoF- Metamorphosis + DAD+ JD+ Gorz+ CCV+ CoSR+ Breaker+ Sangan+ Monster Reborn+ Chaos Sorcerer+ CyDra+ Cyber Twin+ Cyber End+ Chimeratech OverDragon+ Chimeratech Fortress Dragon+ Snipe + Treeborn + Brain Control+ Megamorph+ United We Stand+ Return from a Diff Dim+ Limiter Removal+ Trap Dustshoot+ PoC+ X-Saber Airbellum Eh' date=' probably something else I forgot.[/quote'] @bold. No. I don't like that. Allure should be limited as well as all 3 chaos monsters.To bad. All of those cards are bad for the game, and almost all of the reasons why are obvious. Allure should simply be banned. Unike D-Raw and Trade In which are simitar to this those force you to run a good number of D. Heros and level 8 respectively. Most D-heros aren't good and running to many level 8 can lead to dead hands. Allure on the other hand has a laughable condition of run darks. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Fat Guy Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Card of Safe Return definitely needs to be banned. It's the culprit in so many broken strategies, including the Mantiloop. It creates way too much advantage for nearly nothing, especially in zombies and plants. A limit on Stratos, because he can search himself, giving you 3 1800 beaters that are all +1's and are all very easily searchable even outside of their own effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyosuke Kiryu Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Most D-Heros Arent Good? O.oMalicious, diamond dude, dreadmaster, plasma, Destiny End Dragoon (Not a proper D Hero) Doom Lord and Dogma say Hi.Oh yeah. The egpytian gods should be banned in both formats [/funny] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~/Coolio Prime\~ Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Most D-Heros Arent Good? O.oMalicious' date=' diamond dude, dreadmaster, plasma, Destiny End Dragoon (Not a proper D Hero) Doom Lord and Dogma say Hi.[/quote']I'm pretty sure that accounts for less than half of the D-Hero population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyosuke Kiryu Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Ooh and disc commander. Double dude isn't bad dasher is good too. That's more than half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Most D-Heros Arent Good? O.oMalicious' date=' diamond dude, dreadmaster, plasma, Destiny End Dragoon (Not a proper D Hero) Doom Lord and Dogma say Hi.[hr']Oh yeah. The egpytian gods should be banned in both formats [/funny]Malicious is good.Diamond Dude is fairDreadmaster is badPlasm is decentDragoon is crapDoom Lord is fairDogma is mehOoh and disc commander. Double dude isn't bad dasher is good too. That's more than half.Disc should be banned so I'm not counting himDouble Dude is pure crapDasher is fair. So of all those D.Hero 4 could see a decent amount of play. You could count 1 more but he only works in a deck built to make use of him really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 you could tell why, add to the list-Dark Magician of Chaos (there are other cards that do about the same thing but not half as fast as this guy)-Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End (OTK by himself)-Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beggining (this one is the less broken out of the 3 but still too powerful and too easy to summon for a semi-nomi) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PikaPerson01 Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Most D-Heros Arent Good? O.oMalicious' date='[/quote'] Limited or Semi-Limited on a good list. diamond dude, One. dreadmaster, God awful card that only lives to support an awful decktype or to support a D-Draw, Trade-In, Allure based deck. plasma, Two. Destiny End Dragoon (Not a proper D Hero) Not a D-Draw target Doom Lord Three. and Dogma Dogma's only use is to be a Trade-In, Allure, D-Draw target. say Hi. This whole " says hi" fad should only be used in two ocassions:1) When the first guy says something stupid or forgot something, and makes a broad sweeping generalization. 2) The person who says " says hi" is correct.Example: "A deck that mills itself would never work." "Lightsworn says hi." In this case, since we were all thinking of D-Heroes, and there's not quite a lot of them, the "he forgot something" argument is thrown out. Second of all, the argument that any of the above, except for a few, are even close to decent is incorrect. Ooh and disc commander. Banned on any good list. Double dude isn't bad Level 6 1000 attack monster with the effect of attacking twice (Hayabusa Knight and Mataza the Zapper do it better)' date=' special summons two tokens when destroyed (Dandylion does it better), and to top it off, it can't be special summoned. Disgustingly bad card, yet surprisingly still not the worst of the set. dasher is good too. Four That's more than half. Only if you forget Blade Master, Captain Tenacious, Defender, Departed, Dread Servant, Dunker, and Fear Monger. (And of those, only Defender and Fear Monger could... maybe... be used, and even then that's stretching it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 + The current banlist (Just the Forbidden section)- MoF- Metamorphosis + DAD+ JD+ Gorz+ CCV+ CoSR+ Breaker+ Sangan+ Monster Reborn+ Chaos Sorcerer+ CyDra+ Cyber Twin+ Cyber End+ Chimeratech OverDragon+ Chimeratech Fortress Dragon+ Snipe + Treeborn + Brain Control+ Megamorph+ United We Stand+ Return from a Diff Dim+ Limiter Removal+ Trap Dustshoot+ PoC+ X-Saber Airbellum Eh' date=' probably something else I forgot.[/quote'] your suppose to give at least a small reason for each card. otherwise it isn't on the list. just something simple, like "easy to lock with" with yata. if it is a card not the list, and hasn't been shown in other threads to be a blanantly broken, a little more would be needed.+ The current banlist (Just the Forbidden section)- MoF- Metamorphosis + DAD+ JD+ Gorz+ CCV+ CoSR+ Breaker+ Sangan+ Monster Reborn+ Chaos Sorcerer+ CyDra+ Cyber Twin+ Cyber End+ Chimeratech OverDragon+ Chimeratech Fortress Dragon+ Snipe + Treeborn + Brain Control+ Megamorph+ United We Stand+ Return from a Diff Dim+ Limiter Removal+ Trap Dustshoot+ PoC+ X-Saber Airbellum Eh' date=' probably something else I forgot.[/quote'] @bold. No. I don't like that. Allure should be limited as well as all 3 chaos monsters.To bad. All of those cards are bad for the game, and almost all of the reasons why are obvious. Allure should simply be banned. Unike D-Raw and Trade In which are simitar to this those force you to run a good number of D. Heros and level 8 respectively. Most D-heros aren't good and running to many level 8 can lead to dead hands. Allure on the other hand has a laughable condition of run darks. lol. good reason, allure is on the list.Card of Safe Return definitely needs to be banned. It's the culprit in so many broken strategies' date=' including the Mantiloop. It creates way too much advantage for nearly nothing, especially in zombies and plants. A limit on Stratos, because he can search himself, giving you 3 1800 beaters that are all +1's and are all very easily searchable even outside of their own effects.[/quote']both good reasons, both on the list.you could tell why' date=' add to the list-[b']Dark Magician of Chaos[/b] (there are other cards that do about the same thing but not half as fast as this guy)-Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End (OTK by himself)-Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beggining (this one is the less broken out of the 3 but still too powerful and too easy to summon for a semi-nomi) decent enough reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 The amount of fail demonstrated in this topic is hilarious. This is something like what a good list should look like. [spoiler=Good List]I. Forbidden Cards ALL-OUT ATTACKSARCANA FORCE EX - THE DARK RULERARCANA FORCE XXI – THE WORLDARMED SAMURAI – BEN-KEIBATTLE MANIABLACK LUSTER SOLDIER – ENVOY OF THE BEGINNINGBRAIN CONTROLBREAKER THE MAGICAL WARRIORBUTTERFLY DAGGER – ELMACALL OF THE HAUNTEDCARD OF SAFE RETURNCHANGE OF HEARTCHAOS EMPEROR DRAGON – ENVOY OF THE ENDCHAOS SORCERERCHIMERATECH FORTRESS DRAGONCHIMERATECH OVERDRAGONCONFISCATIONCRUSH CARD VIRUSCYBER DRAGONCYBER JARCYBER-STEINCYBER END DRAGONCYBER TWIN DRAGONDARK ARMED DRAGONDARK HOLEDARK MAGICIAN OF CHAOSDARKLORD ZERATODECK DEVASTATION VIRUSDELINQUENT DUODEMISE, KING OF ARMAGEDDONDIMENSION FUSIONERADICATOR EPIDEMIC VIRUSEVIL HERO DARK GAIAEXCHANGE OF THE SPIRITEXODIA THE FORBIDDEN ONEFIBER JARGLADIATOR BEAST GYZARUSGORZ THE EMISSARY OF DARKNESSGRACEFUL CHARITYHARPIE’S FEATHER DUSTERIMPERIAL IRON WALLIMPERIAL ORDERINFERNO TEMPESTJINZOJUDGMENT DRAGONLAST TURNLAST WILLLIFE EQUALIZERLIMITER REMOVALMAGE POWERMAGICAL EXPLOSIONMAGICAL SCIENTISTMAKYURA THE DESTRUCTORMEGAMORPHMIRAGE OF NIGHTMAREMORPHING JARMONSTER REBORNNOBLEMAN OF CROSSOUTPAINFUL CHOICEPOT OF GREEDPOWER BONDPREMATURE BURIALRAIGEKIRETURN FROM THE DIFFERENT DIMENSIONREVERSAL QUIZRING OF DESTRUCTIONSANGANSELF-DESTRUCT BUTTONSINISTER SERPENTSIXTH SENSESKY SCOURGE NORLERASSNATCH STEALSNIPE HUNTERTHE FORCEFUL SENTRYTHOUSAND-EYES RESTRICTTIME SEALTREEBORN FROGTRIBE-INFECTING VIRUSTSUKUYOMIULTIMATE OFFERINGUNITED WE STANDVICTORY DRAGONWAVE-MOTION CANNONWITCH OF THE BLACK FORESTX - SABER AIRBELLUMYATA-GARASU NEW! – All-Out Attacks, Arcana Force EX - The Dark Ruler, Arcana Force XXI – The World, Armed Samurai – Ben-Kei, Battle Mania, Brain Control, Breaker the Magical Warrior, Card of Safe Return, Chimeratech Fortress Dragon, Chimeratech Overdragon, Crush Card Virus, Cyber Dragon, Cyber End Dragon, Cyber Twin Dragon, Dark Armed Dragon, Darklord Zerato, Deck Devastation Virus, Demise, King of Armageddon, Eradicator Epidemic Virus, Evil Hero Dark Gaia, Exodia the Forbidden One, Gladiator Beast Gyzarus, Gorz the Emissary of Darkness, Imperial Iron Wall, Inferno Tempest, Jinzo, Judgment Dragon, Life Equalizer, Limiter Removal, Mage Power, Magical Explosion, Megamorph, Morphing Jar, Monster Reborn, Nobleman of Crossout, Power Bond, Return from the Different Dimension, Reversal Quiz, Sangan, Self-Destruct Button, Sky Scourge Norleras, Snipe Hunter, Treeborn Frog, Ultimate Offering, United We Stand, Wave-Motion Cannon, X - Saber Airbellum II. Limited Cards ARCANA FORCE 0 - THE FOOLCARD DESTRUCTIONCARD TROOPERCEASEFIRECHAIN STRIKEELEMENTAL HERO STRATOSGIANT TRUNADEGRAVITY BINDGREEN BABOON, DEFENDER OF THE FORESTHEAVY STORMLEVEL LIMIT - AREA BMAGIC CYLINDERMARSHMALLONMIRROR FORCENIGHT ASSAILANTSPIRIT REAPERSWORDS OF REVEALING LIGHTTORRENTIAL TRIBUTE NEW! – Arcana Force 0 - The Fool, Chain Strike III. Semi-Limited Cards DESTINY HERO - MALICIOUS NEW! – Destiny Hero - Malicious NEW! – The following cards are no longer Limited: Advanced Ritual Art, Book of Moon, Cathedral of Nobles, D.D. Warrior Lady, Dandylion, Destiny Hero – Disk Commander, Fissure, Foolish Burial, Future Fusion, Gold Sarcophagus, Left Arm of the Forbidden One, Left Leg of the Forbidden One, Magician of Faith, Magical Stone Excavation, Manticore of Darkness, Mask of Darkness, Metamorphosis, Mind Crush, Monster Gate, Mystical Space Typhoon, Necroface, Neo-Spacian Grand Mole, Ojama Trio, Overload Fusion, Phantom of Chaos, Raiza the Storm Monarch, Reasoning, Rescue Cat, Right Arm of the Forbidden One, Right Leg of the Forbidden One, Scapegoat, Smashing Ground, Summon Priest, The Transmigration Prophecy, Trap Dustshoot, Twin-Headed Behemoth, Wall of Revealing Light Some things there can be questioned but I do know one thing. It is better than any other list or proposed list changes in this topic. Now. My reason for Disk Commander at 3 is because all generic revival and all banworthy win conditions are banned. All you are stuck with for Disk Commander is theme-specific revival and weenie revival. The dedication required in a Format following this list should be more than enough to justify Disk Commander being at 3. Card Trooper on here I think is rather debatable. Im actually thinking it could go to 3 as Limiter Removal is banned and therefore, no OTK for Card Trooper exists unless I am missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~/Coolio Prime\~ Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Ooh and disc commander. Double dude isn't bad dasher is good too. That's more than half. Eh, you're mixing decent, crappy, and overpowered with good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Now. My reason for Disk Commander at 3 is because all generic revival and all banworthy win conditions are banned. All you are stuck with for Disk Commander is theme-specific revival and weenie revival. The dedication required in a Format following this list should be more than enough to justify Disk Commander being at 3.Dark Creator is both an effective and easy way to special summon Disk. Not only that but with Zombie World you create an easy to abuse system to special summon him. Besides those two their is Limit Reverse which, while is might be more specific then the above two means, it is far from an ineffective means to abuse Disk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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