TVL Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 No thanks, I'm not in the mood for mind sex right now. I'll bow out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥ Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Leave CnCing, and take out Classing. That's all I can say. The classing done on YCM's done by people who DON'T know real life art design anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Leave CnCing' date=' and take out Classing. That's all I can say. The classing done on YCM's done by people who DON'T know real life art design anyway.[/quote'] This Oh and Mr. TVL I have something for you. Maybe you should learn to make art before you go and insult others who are better than you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥ Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 At least with CnCing, people who do a lot of graphics via learning off other people and/or tutorials have an idea about how something looks appealing. Although the design characteristics, terminology, and other things are way off. Classing is just downright broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SushiTheLegend Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 The main problem is that people are idiots.Q4T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I agree with Icy on this point. A lot of users give criticism but don't give any suggestions to improve. To me, the Cnc system is just a way to make new GFXers feel bad. But I actually have no problem with the Class system, so leave it be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGAKITTY Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I'm seeing a lot of jabroniing about how people point out problems without solutions. Ever stop to consider that they might not know how to fix it? Just because I don't know how to fix a problem doesn't mean I can't spot an obvious problem and tell the OP about it. :/ I would rather have people point out my problems, so I know what I need to work on, than have people watch what they're saying to avoid getting b&. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVL Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Leave CnCing' date=' and take out Classing. That's all I can say. The classing done on YCM's done by people who DON'T know real life art design anyway.[/quote'] This Oh and Mr. TVL I have something for you. Maybe you should learn to make art before you go and insult others who are better than you?Nowadays anything can be considered art. You could take a sheet on a plate and use it as 3D art. But not many people would look at that. However, point taken, from now on I'll only insult people who are worse then me, or people who I don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jappio Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Now I'm not sure if all my spriting qualifies me to join this discussion. However I enjoy receiving and trying to give CnC. I do prefer CnC that has helpful comments in how to fix my issues. Yet lets go into an assumption. Lets say I am the best artist in the world. I make things like the Mona Lisa look like a 3rd grade doodle. I though make something, want improvement, seek out critique. However being the amazing artist I was, am I able to expect the greatest critique? In that case I'd be happy with at least getting errors pointed out. The people critiquing don't quite have the knowledge to give a way to fix, however if done at least politely and well explained, pointing out errors can be the next best thing. If standards go up on CnC, it may only create an effect which will cut the amount of critique, and some things might not get any critique at all then. Now honestly, I'm not fully sure where I stand. Sometimes it's about taking what you can get. However sometimes it is better to just not say anything. Maybe it is best to keep CnC to only those that can give the best of the best of it. I suppose I'm thinking allowed just to put out some points. If I had to decide, I'd say allow for "Point out Mistakes" type CnC. I think it still can have its use to an artist. Lame short ones should still be viewed as bad, such as "The shading is off." Yet if put in a way like, "I think the shading is off. I want to say it's too dark, or looks like it's facing the wrong way." It doesn't really give a way to fix it, yet offers a good idea what is wrong and can have its uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVL Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 But if you can make the Mona Lisa seem like a third grade doodle, how can there be anything wrong with your art? [/devil's advocate]In all seriousness I agree with you. The bottom line for me comes down to dealing with idiots. They'll always be there, you can always annoy them, you can use them as target practice for your sarcasm gun, or you can let them get to you. If you're good enough at design, then you can know bad critique when you know it. People don't know everything. They may think they're right when they're wrong. That's life, you've got to live with it instead of jabroniing about it and trying to stop criticism altogether. No Cnc would kill the design section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staticrevenger Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 The classing system is broken. However it gives a person a stand point as to how they compare with other artists. Not all people like competition, but for those who do, this system is quite helpful. Thus, adding the [CLASS] tag in the title of a thread suggests that the person would like to be informed of his standpoint in the gfxing world. However it is easy to be mislead by the classing system, so best leave it to experienced artists such as Shadius and Cyber Altair, who can provide a not always 100% accurate but relatively reliable opinion. To cap up, don't abolish classing as a whole, but leave it to those who are experienced artists and allow people to choose whether they would like their art classed through the addition of the [CLASS] tag in the thread title. About cnc, it is often harsh, but sadly, the best way for an artist to improve. Prob's harsh cnc is what inspired me to improve and research each of the problems he pointed out on my pieces. However different people improve in different ways, so some people will not prefer the "full-on" approach. There is really not much you can do to fix this problem, as individuals vary. You can hold someones hand through making a piece and sugar coat everything you say, but that may result in them being dependent on this constant help, thus, becoming worse instead of improving their skills. You can't accuse people of being idiots by the way. They are only usually offering their opinion, and in YCM's usual environment, it is difficult for them to excel at design, as we all know. It isn't their fault they are "stupid", because they are not receiving adequate amount of help to improve. The bottom line is that YCM is not a gfx based forum and you cannot expect everyone here to be design geniuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG. Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I agree mildly on the Classing system being removed, people can just go to other sites, PR, CZ and such to get classed. But, if say you are pretty bad at tagging, you would get flamed to pieces over there, so here is better, because there are many designers your own level too. So I'm split opinions here. The CnC part, is just plain stupid. Seriously. What point is there in a GFX forum if you aren't even allowed to do the most basic thing in GFX? Pretty much all comments are CnC, even if it is bad CnC, and posts like "Nice Job" and such are counted as spamming, as far as I have heard, so you can't really post without breaking the rules then. Rethink your decisions, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoshIcy Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I agree mildly on the Classing system being removed' date=' people can just go to other sites, PR, CZ and such to get classed. But, if say you are pretty bad at tagging, you would get flamed to pieces over there, so here is better, because there are many designers your own level too. So I'm split opinions here. The CnC part, is just plain stupid. Seriously. What point is there in a GFX forum if you aren't even allowed to do the most basic thing in GFX? Pretty much all comments are CnC, even if it is bad CnC, and posts like "Nice Job" and such are counted as spamming, as far as I have heard, so you can't really post without breaking the rules then. Rethink your decisions, please.[/quote'] Did you come online just to belittle me ~JG~? And nice job is a motivator, which is better than... TP: [insert sig here] CnC please.Random Poster (RP): No light source' date=' no depth, focal is too distortedTP: Well, now that you say that. How would you suggest I fix? (I used Photoshop btw)RP: Ooh. I can't say that; I don't know how.TP: Then why tell me whats wrong if you can't do it yourself? Would you like me to give you the PsD so you can show me in some way?RP: I don't know how.TP: Hypocrite.[/quote'] Practice what you preach, or don't say squat cuz you aren't helping anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehmani Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 On the Topic of CnC:- CnC is one of the most important things in Graphics. Comment and Criticize. There is no 'FIX' in there and there never will be. Comment and Criticize. Simple. Removing the CnC system is like removing the Tea leaves in Tea - it's not the same anymore. And besides, if you put [Class] or 'Rate, Hate, CnC' then you are asking for how good your work is in general and it's faults respectively. You are literally asking for it. If you put CnC underneath your tag and don't like what you get, it's your fault. ~ That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG. Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I agree mildly on the Classing system being removed' date=' people can just go to other sites, PR, CZ and such to get classed. But, if say you are pretty bad at tagging, you would get flamed to pieces over there, so here is better, because there are many designers your own level too. So I'm split opinions here. The CnC part, is just plain stupid. Seriously. What point is there in a GFX forum if you aren't even allowed to do the most basic thing in GFX? Pretty much all comments are CnC, even if it is bad CnC, and posts like "Nice Job" and such are counted as spamming, as far as I have heard, so you can't really post without breaking the rules then. Rethink your decisions, please.[/quote'] Did you come online just to belittle me ~JG~? And nice job is a motivator, which is better than... Bah, you discovered me. Whatever. But no, I found this thread with my new account, and decided to post my opinion. I didn't do this to belittle you. Also, how did you know it was me? IP Check much? Or pure instinct? Also, you can ban me if you want, but I don't see the point, since I ain't misusing this account to give reps or such. Which brings me to the topic of the multiple account rule, It's stupid, if you want to start afresh, you should be allowed to, unless you misuse it, like repping yourself or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cin Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I understand the comments made about classing, its very opinionated, I'll have to think about its future on this forum. While its a good idea if a member wants it, it doesn't lead to very useful comments after it. As for CnC, if there is a problem spotted but the member noting it cannot tell them how to fix it, how about detailing how they think its wrong, that way the maker of the piece of GFX can see maybe a different point of view on elements and some problems that could become continuous could be researched into (if like Kiwi the member really wanted to improve) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥ Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 The classing system is broken. However it gives a person a stand point as to how they compare with other artists. Not all people like competition' date=' but for those who do, this system is quite helpful. Thus, adding the [CLASS'] tag in the title of a thread suggests that the person would like to be informed of his standpoint in the gfxing world. However it is easy to be mislead by the classing system, so best leave it to experienced artists such as Shadius and Cyber Altair, who can provide a not always 100% accurate but relatively reliable opinion. To cap up, don't abolish classing as a whole, but leave it to those who are experienced artists and allow people to choose whether they would like their art classed through the addition of the [CLASS] tag in the thread title. About cnc, it is often harsh, but sadly, the best way for an artist to improve. Prob's harsh cnc is what inspired me to improve and research each of the problems he pointed out on my pieces. However different people improve in different ways, so some people will not prefer the "full-on" approach. There is really not much you can do to fix this problem, as individuals vary. You can hold someones hand through making a piece and sugar coat everything you say, but that may result in them being dependent on this constant help, thus, becoming worse instead of improving their skills. I highly disagree with CA. And problematica, tea.leaf, and I have formed our own little team of harsh CnCing, but we cba to do anything yet. problematica's only available usually on Fridays (and sometimes Thursday nights), and tea.leaf's temp. banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staticrevenger Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 The classing system is broken. However it gives a person a stand point as to how they compare with other artists. Not all people like competition' date=' but for those who do, this system is quite helpful. Thus, adding the [CLASS'] tag in the title of a thread suggests that the person would like to be informed of his standpoint in the gfxing world. However it is easy to be mislead by the classing system, so best leave it to experienced artists such as Shadius and Cyber Altair, who can provide a not always 100% accurate but relatively reliable opinion. To cap up, don't abolish classing as a whole, but leave it to those who are experienced artists and allow people to choose whether they would like their art classed through the addition of the [CLASS] tag in the thread title. About cnc, it is often harsh, but sadly, the best way for an artist to improve. Prob's harsh cnc is what inspired me to improve and research each of the problems he pointed out on my pieces. However different people improve in different ways, so some people will not prefer the "full-on" approach. There is really not much you can do to fix this problem, as individuals vary. You can hold someones hand through making a piece and sugar coat everything you say, but that may result in them being dependent on this constant help, thus, becoming worse instead of improving their skills. I highly disagree with CA. And problematica, tea.leaf, and I have formed our own little team of harsh CnCing, but we cba to do anything yet. problematica's only available usually on Fridays (and sometimes Thursday nights), and tea.leaf's temp. banned. I would have included prob, but I haven't seen him on for a while. I thought he was inactive. However, although he may come off as overconfident at times, cyber altair is undeniably one of the best artists on this site. Furthermore, through his joining of a team, he has proven his capacity against the much higher levels of gfx ability found in pr. But this isn't an argument about altair so w/e. I never heard that tealeaf did gfx, and I'm aware that you usually provide good, harsh cnc ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥ Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 problematica is actually pretty active. He just doesn't post. tea.leaf doesn't post in Showcase. But now he'd been perma'd, so he's out of YCM forever. If CA is "undeniably one of the best artists on the site," I think you're a couple months outdated. His "art" has gotten a lot more worse. A lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staticrevenger Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 If CA is "undeniably one of the best artists on the site' date='" I think you're a couple months outdated. His "art" has gotten a lot more worse. A lot more.[/quote'] I haven't seen his recent stuff so I wouldn't know =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzi Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Sorry but I'm not very up-to-date on this topic and I can't be bothered reading it. I'm simply here to say that I agree that the class system is absolutely horrible and a stupid idea. So are [CLASS] tags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendano Harns Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I believe it is possible to regulate idiocy if proper measures are used. Proper measures only work if the idocy is not widespread. I believe that more suggestions and feedback should be required for Cnc' date=' and even more for [Class']. [spoiler=Suggestions][spoiler=Cnc Rules]A member that does not give at least 1 helpful suggestion for thread that is labeled with [Cnc] in the thread's title is issued a warning of 50%. [spoiler=Class Rules]A member that does not give at least 1 helpful suggestion for thread that is labeled with [Class] in the thread's title is banned for 1 day. It is simple enough, cut and dry, and may not entirely fix the problem, but if it is enforced, it can be very helpful, because members will actually become better at GFX, instead of feeling about an inch tall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Impact Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 defintely i agree icyblue the first time i posted a sig here i was constantly told to leave this site cause I was so bad. That is unacceptable not just because it happened to me but because people that could really have potential are turned off to this section of the site. So in a brief summary CHANGE THIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Legacy Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Now, I haven't read through all the posts written here, but I can gather whats going on. I agree, people should point out what you need to do to fix your problem and obviously tell them where the problem is. But I think that you should still be allowed to point out the problem even if you don't know how to fix it. You could simply tell them how it could look better in the sense, so the GFXers can go back and replace it with whats been suggested, and see if thats any better. For the Class system, well, that I cannot really verdict. I don't mind it. But yes, sometimes you can get people giving you grief even if they don't know what there doing. So by all means take the Class system, it has its times when its good. But most of the time it can be, well...cloggy. But anywho, I support the mods on the general idea. I understand that you make this section and the whole forum a nicer place and you don't get diddly squat for it sometimes; depending what case your in. And by what I can see you do get critized alot, but people have to understand that you as people can't please everyone. And that your views have to go with what see's fit. You also make this forum a flexible place for us, to expand are ideas and such; especially in this section and in CC. Your the ones that make the YCM World go round :D I hope that justifys my views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG. Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 I say, let's do something like on Crown Zero, where certain people can class, and only them, others will get warned and such. Like the Class Crew, but enforced this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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