Why is it very few of us understand a good banlist?

[arkel]

 

The only person you make look stupid is yourself when you don't back up your reasoning.

 

...this is still by far the best list posted in the past week.

 

At least someone here has common sense. Although you all may not agree with my list, it's far better than the others that've been popping up. Weren't JD and Whirlwind @ 1 in another list?

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

Battle Mania. wut.

 

arks I'm not getting this.

 

Reasoning behind Airbellum

[Sunshine Jesse]

Battle Mania has its fair share of OTKs.

I would rather ban Cat then Airbellum though.

[arkel]

Battle Mania. wut.

 

arks I'm not getting this.

 

Reasoning behind Airbellum

 

Battle Mania has an OTK with Cactus Fighter I believe.

 

Either Airbellum or Cat needs the hammer.

 

I would rather ban Cat then Airbellum though.

 

The general rule is, when banning a card to stop an OTK or Lock, you ban the card that has the least impact on the game.

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

Then ban cat.

Airbellum is just a good Level 3 tuner.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

Agreed. Ban the Kitty Kat from hell.

[arkel]

Then ban cat.

Airbellum is just a good Level 3 tuner.

 

The general rule is' date=' when banning a card to stop an OTK or Lock, you ban the card that has the least impact on the game.

[/quote']

 

Most cards that are banned aren't banned because they're broken.

[-Griffin]

Can you please make a realistic list. Not just one that is "Good for the game"' date=' but one that places minimal limits on cards so that they keep value, as Konami does, and only ban cards which completely change a format, rather than those which have any impact at all or [i']could[/i] have some impact. Or even have no impact on the meta, but their only use is an impact you don't like.

 

The banlist, in short, will be kept as small as possible by Konami. Can someone emulate this with their prodictions?

 

Why in the world would I ever want to do that? A good banlist is something Konami would never make because it'd put a

 

And that is how YGO got corrupted and overan with Meta.

 

It also represents a banlist which is enjoyed by the non-competitive player or a player who finds setting up certain OTKs and such enjoyable.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

You people are complete fools. This list is far, far superior than any of the garbage people have been coming out with here lately. The only legitimate complaint here is rescue cat vs Airbellum... now that X-sabers are becoming a decent type on their own, airbellum has just as much use without rescue cat as rescue cat does without airbellum.

[Dark_Armed_Zombie]

I find it funny that Ojama Trio is unlimited even though it has a 3 card OTK attached to it :? and Arkel is trying to remove the OTKs

 

Edit: Isn't a bad list and is definatly one of the best posted this week, but there can be improvements.

[evilfusion]

I dunno. I can see a few good choices in there, but it seems a bit overdone in the attempts to eliminate OTKs, to the point where it isn't done that well. You forgot Power Bond in that case. Even with Cyber Dragon, Chimeratech(s), Cyber Twin, Limiter Removal, and Cyber End gone, Ancient Gear Ultimate Golem can OTK if Power Bonded, as can UFOroid Fighter, and Cyber Ogre 2 can come close.

 

It was mentioned that the stall cards (Level Limit, Gravity Bind) aren't a lock, because they can be stopped with MST/Twister. Yet you banned Breaker and Storm. The cards are a pain to get rid of at 1, but you think they should be allowed in 3s while you also ban most generic s/t removal? So instead, you have to run 3 MST, devoting 3 deckspace slots to try to get rid of threats like frustrating continuous cards. This is considered "GOOD" for the game? Force people to devote a large portion of their deck just in order to function if they run up against a certain theme or someone who spams annoying cards?

 

And you unlimit Necroface and Card Destruction and insist even large setup OTKs are bad for the game. Hmm, from your list, this OTK is possible. Dimension Fissure, Card Destruction with a Necroface in hand. Get lucky and mill both your other Necrofaces (or use other cards, like another Card Destruction or any other unrestricted draw cards- Allure of Darkness?). Play Burial from a Different Dimension, put the 3 back in your graveyard. Soul Release them. You milled 30 cards from Necroface's effect, they lost their opening 5, and they drew 5. 40 cards have been taken from their deck. And they couldn't do a thing about it. Not even a hard FTK, now that all the components are allowed in 3s.

 

This list demonstrates to me that even if not all banned cards are broken, some broken cards aren't seen as such and so aren't banned or restricted. Necroface deserves a ban if you're anti-OTK. Mill decks would love 3 Card Destruction next to their Needle Worms and other milling, opponent draw cards, and stall cards that can be a pain. And so much of a player's deck has to be devoted to countering every conceivable threat that are now 3 times more likely to emerge with this list, and their options are now limited beyond belief without mass removal.

 

Sure, maybe the list would make the game less fast-paced and give other decks a chance. Or it could turn half the game into an ungodly slow crawl. I'm wondering how much hate Imperial Custom would get with 3 Gravity Binds or Wall of Revealing Light running around and so much deckspace being devoted to 1 for 1 removal.

[Luis2]

Why Destiny Board is on the list? It's been winning a lot lately?

[Fraz]

Why Destiny Board is on the list? It's been winning a lot lately?

 

It's cause it's a win condition. Apparently win conditions are broken and go against the point of TCGs :/

[evilfusion]

Why Destiny Board is on the list? It's been winning a lot lately?

 

It's cause it's a win condition. Apparently win conditions are broken and go against the point of TCGs :/

 

Win conditions, too? In that case, in addition to what else I've said, Final Countdown is cackling insanely. It wasn't touched, forces a time limit that CANT BE STOPPED BY ANYTHING BEYOND DEFEATING THE OPPONENT and now it can span stall cards! Just what every player wants to face with Heavy Storm gone! And don't forget the chainable stalls, like Rainbow Life, Threatening Roar...oh wow, I love this list if I play Final Countdown. Dandylion at 3...Gravity, Level Limit...at 3...*drool*

 

And Vennominaga is pretty thrilled too, what with its near impossibility to beat with...anything.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

ATHENA

DARK SCORPION - CHICK THE YELLOW

DELTA CROW - ANTI-REVERSE

DESTINY BOARD

EVIL DRAGON ANANTA

INFERNO TEMPEST

MEGAROCK DRAGON

X-SABER AIRBELLUM

 

MANTICORE OF DARKNESS

 

RESCUE CAT

TSUKUYOMI

 

Justify.

[Fraz]

And Vennominaga is pretty thrilled too' date=' what with its near impossibility to beat with...anything.

[/quote']

 

Zombie World sez hai

[Dark_Armed_Zombie]

ATHENA

DARK SCORPION - CHICK THE YELLOW

DELTA CROW - ANTI-REVERSE

DESTINY BOARD

EVIL DRAGON ANANTA

INFERNO TEMPEST

MEGAROCK DRAGON

X-SABER AIRBELLUM

 

MANTICORE OF DARKNESS

 

RESCUE CAT

TSUKUYOMI

 

Justify.

 

^This

[Darkest Hour]

I was going to bold all the things wrong with your banlist and give arguements against them until I realised there were too funking many so I gave up and decided to post this sentence instead.

[Fraz]

ATHENA - There's an OTK involving honest and ultimate offerings. This is stopped by MST but for some reason it's been deemed less broken than swords + mof + Tsukiomi

DARK SCORPION - CHICK THE YELLOW

DELTA CROW - ANTI-REVERSE It's a possible +4 against stupid people... OMG BROKEN

DESTINY BOARD Win conditions are a no no in 3/0 apparently

EVIL DRAGON ANANTA Cause it's big and apparently only exists to OTK

INFERNO TEMPEST OTKs are bad apparently

MEGAROCK DRAGON It's really really big

X-SABER AIRBELLUM OH NOEZ!!! A CARD THAT HAS SYNERGY WITH ANOTHER CARD BUT NIETHER CARD WINS THE GAME ON IT'S OWN!!!

 

MANTICORE OF DARKNESS

 

RESCUE CAT

TSUKUYOMI

 

Justify.

 

Reading between the lines here... but I'm sure those are the reasons.

[Dark_Armed_Zombie]

If that Athena one is true, ban Honest, it's bad for the game anyway and stops many more OTKs than banning Athena.

[Darkest Hour]

I could torrential or DD Crow when he uses phantom.

 

Even big-setup OTKs are bad for the game because they force you to run cards like D.D. Crow' date=' Torrential, etc. Being forced to run certain cards is bad for the game.[/b']

 

Banning cards which allow for big advantage swings, like storm, isn't good either. Doing that shows you have limited understanding of how the game is played at a competitive level.

 

Mind explaining? I don't play at a competitive level. Honestly, I hardly play in general.

 

So basically what you're saying is...your trying to defeat the purpose of a side deck to effectively counter certain popular strategies by banning the crap out of everything?

 

I have D.D. Crow in my side deck to deal with ANY Graveyard manipulation. It would not make it easier to ban all of it's targets because then everything would be Stall/Gladiator Beasts/Relinquispam. The game is made up of OTKs. Its a disgusting truth, unfortunately, but if you make the banlist too big then it's almost not worth running good cards. Anything that can be used over and over again usually will be to the point of an OTK. It's the reality of the game, and NO BAN LIST can make the game any better.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

There's an OTK involving honest and ultimate offerings. This is stopped by MST but for some reason it's been deemed less broken than swords + mof + Tsukiomi

 

Ultimate Offering is already banned on this list.

 

It's a possible +4 against stupid people... OMG BROKEN

 

It's possible to +4 against people with Lightning Vortex as well.

 

Win conditions are a no no in 3/0 apparently

 

A five card ten turn OTK.

 

Cause it's big and apparently only exists to OTK

 

It's really really big

 

Reptiles and rocks aren't exactly turboing archetypes.

 

OTKs are bad apparently

 

OH NOEZ!!! A CARD THAT HAS SYNERGY WITH ANOTHER CARD BUT NIETHER CARD WINS THE GAME ON IT'S OWN!!!

 

Why is it believed that those particular cards are the source of the problem, if there even is a problem?

[Dark_Armed_Zombie]

 

There's an OTK involving honest and ultimate offerings. This is stopped by MST but for some reason it's been deemed less broken than swords + mof + Tsukiomi

 

Ultimate Offering is already banned on this list.

 

It's a possible +4 against stupid people... OMG BROKEN

 

It's possible to +4 against people with Lightning Vortex as well.

 

Win conditions are a no no in 3/0 apparently

 

A five card ten turn OTK.

 

Cause it's big and apparently only exists to OTK

 

It's really really big

 

Reptiles and rocks aren't exactly turboing archetypes.

 

OTKs are bad apparently

 

OH NOEZ!!! A CARD THAT HAS SYNERGY WITH ANOTHER CARD BUT NIETHER CARD WINS THE GAME ON IT'S OWN!!!

 

 

Why is it believed that those particular cards are the source of the problem' date=' if there even is a problem?

[/quote']

 

Cat, Monk, and Air aren't broken without DSF, but seriously, Monk was the problem anyways, that is what gave the deck it's speed. If you want to kill it, Monk is what you need to focus on. That said, Arcanite Beatdown isn't a super awesome deck :?

[The Corps]

hmmmmmm i think dark hole should be semi limited

[Fraz]

There's an OTK involving honest and ultimate offerings. This is stopped by MST but for some reason it's been deemed less broken than swords + mof + Tsukiomi

 

Ultimate Offering is already banned on this list. Unless there's some other otk for her then this list isn't even following it's own rules then...

 

It's a possible +4 against stupid people... OMG BROKEN

 

It's possible to +4 against stupid people with Lightning Vortex as well. I know I've never lost (except when I was starting) to someone because of a big heavy storm' date=' vortex, feather duster, raigeki or dark hole.[/b']

 

Win conditions are a no no in 3/0 apparently

 

A five card ten turn OTK. One card 8 turn

 

Cause it's big and apparently only exists to OTK

 

It's really really big

 

Reptiles and rocks aren't exactly turboing archetypes. Wait... when did you start agreeing with me

 

OTKs are bad apparently

 

OH NOEZ!!! A CARD THAT HAS SYNERGY WITH ANOTHER CARD BUT NIETHER CARD WINS THE GAME ON IT'S OWN!!!

 

Why is it believed that those particular cards are the source of the problem, if there even is a problem? The problem was dark strike fighter + dad. The advantage engine is brilliant and rewards the smarter and better player. There is no problem with a 2 kitty, 2 monk, 1 dad format.