AlucardTheOld Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Do you believe that everyones fate is predetermined? Do not discuss religion only your opinion. I think it is not because people have free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BehindTheMask Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/thread-164011.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlucardTheOld Posted December 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Well think about it IF time travel is ever possible then it would mean that time is not the linear way we think. Also if this was possible it would mean you can't change the past because it would cause a paradox and if someone in the future were to come back to now it would cause a paradox, therefore fate in the sense of non-linear time must be predetermined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'll leave my answer at "partially", and let you assume the rest. I don't believe life is fully predetermined, nor do I believe life is an absolute random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'll leave my answer at "partially"' date=' and let you assume the rest. I don't believe life is fully predetermined, nor do I believe life is an absolute random.[/quote'] Actually this question's pretty undebatable. Life is DEFINITELY predetermined by cause/effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I think it's already set for you, but you could probably change it with your actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I think it's already set for you' date=' but you could probably change it with your actions[/quote'] But your actions to change it are already predetermined. Meaning that you never really changed anything. ^ ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 You cant change the future without knowing what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark One Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Free will is such a vague concept. I certainly don't believe that some "higher power" has a plan written down for us, but that doesn't preclude the concept of predestination. We make choices, but those choices are based on a combination of experiences and biological factors. We are, in a sense, machines carrying out our programs. Very complex programming, obviously, but programming none-the-less. However, I don't think this diminishes the concept of self or our achievements. Some people tend to be hotheaded. You would label them as impulsive. In that labeling, you have assigned them a tendency: You have identified a set of actions characteristic of them. You have, therefore, in a loose way, managed to discover the way they are programmed. We are nowhere close to being able to unravel the human brain in the manner that we could parse the code of a piece of software, but that information does exist within us. THe universe is logical, and we are part of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'll leave my answer at "partially"' date=' and let you assume the rest. I don't believe life is fully predetermined, nor do I believe life is an absolute random.[/quote'] Actually this question's pretty undebatable. Life is DEFINITELY predetermined by cause/effect. How so? I can understand that my cause has a definite effect (based on what happens afterwards, because we are throwing out the damn parallel universe theory for this debate), but the cause wasn't predetermined. The effect from the cause is predetermined, but I have yet to see evidence that the cause within itself is predetermined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassa Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I believe that we do have free will and that there is no such thing as fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlucardTheOld Posted December 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 This is a debate please justify your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'll leave my answer at "partially"' date=' and let you assume the rest. I don't believe life is fully predetermined, nor do I believe life is an absolute random.[/quote'] Actually this question's pretty undebatable. Life is DEFINITELY predetermined by cause/effect. How so? I can understand that my cause has a definite effect (based on what happens afterwards, because we are throwing out the damn parallel universe theory for this debate), but the cause wasn't predetermined. The effect from the cause is predetermined, but I have yet to see evidence that the cause within itself is predetermined. The cause it's self is an effect of another cause, which is the effect of another cause, etc... Therefore every effect is predetermined, as well as every cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'll leave my answer at "partially"' date=' and let you assume the rest. I don't believe life is fully predetermined, nor do I believe life is an absolute random.[/quote'] Actually this question's pretty undebatable. Life is DEFINITELY predetermined by cause/effect. How so? I can understand that my cause has a definite effect (based on what happens afterwards, because we are throwing out the damn parallel universe theory for this debate), but the cause wasn't predetermined. The effect from the cause is predetermined, but I have yet to see evidence that the cause within itself is predetermined. The cause it's self is an effect of another cause, which is the effect of another cause, etc... Therefore every effect is predetermined, as well as every cause. That is what I don't fully understand. If the cause is turning on the computer when it has a virus, then (assuming no parallel universes) the only effect will be BSoD. I get that part. But how was turning on the computer predetermined? I could have easily turned on my Wii and played Brawl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'll leave my answer at "partially"' date=' and let you assume the rest. I don't believe life is fully predetermined, nor do I believe life is an absolute random.[/quote'] Actually this question's pretty undebatable. Life is DEFINITELY predetermined by cause/effect. How so? I can understand that my cause has a definite effect (based on what happens afterwards, because we are throwing out the damn parallel universe theory for this debate), but the cause wasn't predetermined. The effect from the cause is predetermined, but I have yet to see evidence that the cause within itself is predetermined. The cause it's self is an effect of another cause, which is the effect of another cause, etc... Therefore every effect is predetermined, as well as every cause. That is what I don't fully understand. If the cause is turning on the computer when it has a virus, then (assuming no parallel universes) the only effect will be BSoD. I get that part. But how was turning on the computer predetermined? I could have easily turned on my Wii and played Brawl. No you couldn't have turned on brawl instead because you didn't. If it didn't happen it obviously didn't have a chance at happening. The circumstances given caused you to turn on the computer instead. See? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 So I have absolutely no choice over what I do? For some reason, that makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Lovegood Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I believe that we do have free will and that there is no such thing as fate. Free will and fate can co-exist. You make the choices, but the choices you make hve already been predetermined by your genetic code and previous choices you/others have made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caine Ghest Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Fate is never predetermined, things can always change based on a multitude of elements. You may have another ten years left in you but all of the sudden you are hit by a bus and it is over, something completely out of the blue can happen which causes everything to change. If fate is indeed predetermined then there is no freewill due to everything playing out in a continuous loop, meaning we are nothing more than puppets putting on a show. Everything is just a victim of chance, I could walk outside and find a twenty dollar bill, what I do with it is up to me not some predetermined pile of sheet. On another note if we are considering the possibility of alternate universes then that only drives my point home farther, choices made in one will be different in another, thus proving that there is no predetermined fate, but only a mass of alternate choices, of what could have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Lovegood Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Fate is never predetermined' date=' things can always change based on a multitude of elements. You may have another ten years left in you but all of the sudden you are hit by a bus and it is over, something completely out of the blue can happen which causes everything to change. If fate is indeed predetermined then there is no freewill due to everything playing out in a continuous loop, meaning we are nothing more than puppets putting on a show. Everything is just a victim of chance, I could walk outside and find a twenty dollar bill, what I do with it is up to me not some predetermined pile of s***. On another note if we are considering the possibility of alternate universes then that only drives my point home farther, choices made in one will be different in another, thus proving that there is no predetermined fate, but only a mass of alternate choices, of what could have been.[/quote'] Free will can exist with fate. If free will exists then time travel does not, meaning that fate can always be determined for a certain period of time. If I took any point, there would be pre-determined events that wold play-out which would pre0-determine more events, it creates an infinite amount of time in which fate exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 So I have absolutely no choice over what I do? For some reason' date=' that makes no sense to me.[/quote'] Well I mean... It's not a theory really... It's just cause and effect. It's kind of like if you take a bunch of dominoes and line them up and knock them down.Fate is never predetermined' date=' things can always change based on a multitude of elements. You may have another ten years left in you but all of the sudden you are hit by a bus and it is over, something completely out of the blue can happen which causes everything to change. If fate is indeed predetermined then there is no freewill due to everything playing out in a continuous loop, meaning we are nothing more than puppets putting on a show. Everything is just a victim of chance, I could walk outside and find a twenty dollar bill, what I do with it is up to me not some predetermined pile of s***. On another note if we are considering the possibility of alternate universes then that only drives my point home farther, choices made in one will be different in another, thus proving that there is no predetermined fate, but only a mass of alternate choices, of what could have been.[/quote'] Actually what you do with the twenty dollar bill is predetermined. You'll spend it based on what you want, what you see, where you are, etc... It's just that you can't map out a timeline of your life before it's over, meaning it's completely chance to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caine Ghest Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Fate is never predetermined' date=' things can always change based on a multitude of elements. You may have another ten years left in you but all of the sudden you are hit by a bus and it is over, something completely out of the blue can happen which causes everything to change. If fate is indeed predetermined then there is no freewill due to everything playing out in a continuous loop, meaning we are nothing more than puppets putting on a show. Everything is just a victim of chance, I could walk outside and find a twenty dollar bill, what I do with it is up to me not some predetermined pile of s***. On another note if we are considering the possibility of alternate universes then that only drives my point home farther, choices made in one will be different in another, thus proving that there is no predetermined fate, but only a mass of alternate choices, of what could have been.[/quote'] Free will can exist with fate. If free will exists then time travel does not, meaning that fate can always be determined for a certain period of time. If I took any point, there would be pre-determined events that wold play-out which would pre0-determine more events, it creates an infinite amount of time in which fate exists. Something can always come along and change what is suppose to be predetermined. A simple change of the wind could cause a storm to hit somewhere else. Thus the reason for Alternate Universes which are essentially What Ifs? Logically Free will can not exist in a world that is predetermined, due to the illusionary nature of a world that seems to be random but would actually be a set of events that can never be changed regardless. Free will may or may not be an illusion, but if you take a look at it there is a greater possibility that it indeed does exist, choices happen every single microsecond, even the smallest details are subject to chance which can completely change the course of a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Lovegood Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Yes, but that change in wind would have had a cause, which would have a cause. Unless one excepts God, then really, one must believe in fate, as fate is the natural cause and effect sequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caine Ghest Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Kick logic and reason to the curb, things happen because of chance alone, it is knowing how to manipulate chance that allows one to modify fate. Gamblers do it all the time. There are only two things that are every predetermined Death and Taxes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Lovegood Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 You just said 'modify fate'. You can't. You also, indirectly admitted fate exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caine Ghest Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I never said there was no such thing as fate, merely there is no predetermined fate. There are fates that are out of my hands, but there is nothing predetermined about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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