El Majishan Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 So I've heard a rumor of this being limited... Seriously this should not have been even semi limited in the first place. Discuss this card and the the reasoning (if any at all) of it being limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Punishes players for summoning monsters@1 seems fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Βyakuya Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 It is a little OPed. It gets rid of stronger monsters and removing them from play, while it has a small balance. It should be limited. It helped me a lot in duels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Punishes players for summoning monsters@1 seems fair I disagree, a player should not be able to make a move without a risk factor. Every action taken in a game should carry a certain level of risk. Plus it is simple 1 for 1 removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 This card has no business being anywhere on the ban list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 This card has no business being anywhere on the ban list. ^ This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechnoDoomedOne Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 I disagree, a player should not be able to make a move without a risk factor. Every action taken in a game should carry a certain level of risk. I agree. This card was simply put to 2 because Konami doesn't like non-restricted Staples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 ....If this was@1, people might use Trap Hole?Then with Konami's logic, they limit Trap Hole and Un-limit Bottomless. Mission accomplished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 ....If this was@1, people might use Trap Hole?Then with Konami's logic, they limit Trap Hole and Un-limit Bottomless. Mission accomplished? Gotta love Konami. Remember when they Limited Demise but left Judgment Dragon untouched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Gotta love Konami. Remember when they Limited Demise but left Judgment Dragon untouched?Konami works the B& list backwards, and then prints cards later on as an "excuse" to say there limits make seance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Hyperion Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 So I've heard a rumor of this being limited... Don't get so worked up about some stupid rumor and just wait for the bloody banlist. >_>I really doubt it that they limit Bottomless. Even Konami can't be that idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Don't get so worked up about some stupid rumor and just wait for the bloody banlist. >_>I really doubt it that they limit Bottomless. Even Konami can't be that idiotic. They did print Infernity Launcher thinking it was a good idea.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zauls Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 No reason to be @1 at all. I think 2 seems fine, 3 in a deck would seem overkill anyway. IMO, it should stay where it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BehindTheMask Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Taken from DGz: I'd like to end this brief lecture by stating BTH is incredibly powerful, almost to the point of being overpowered. Going first and opening 2 BTH means you're a lucky little kid. Consider this: a player who wins the dice roll and summons raioh + BTH turn one is at an incredible advantage that he did absolutely nothing to earn, that cannot be answered barring a very limited number of outs. Essentially, he starts the game two summons ahead of his opponent, absolutely free. By going first, he gains a free and uncontested advantage in momentum by summoning raioh (or any other beatstick). By setting BTH, he denies the same of his opponent. The unfortunate sap going 2nd, unless he opens storm/mst, faces the following situation: 1. The most common answer to a beatstick is to attack over it. Attacking requires summoning a bigger monster. BTH not only removes the other player's normal summon for the turn, it also reduces the number of outs he has by one. For a player who could easily have only opened 1-2 monster-outs to raioh, this is devastating. He now must rip another out or lose to that measly raioh, 1900 LP per turn. Outside of d-prison/mirror force, you are almost guaranteed to take a direct attack next turn, if not two. this is devastating considering the game has only just begun. 2. Setting a monster (gaining no momentum) still leaves the opponent with the momentum initiative. You are still at his mercy, as you'll have to summon into that BTH sooner or later barring s/t removal. tl;drBTH is powerful because of the way it dictates momentum. Studying the way in which it does so also illustrates how momentum works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 The same can be said about traphole..... I've never lost a game to BTH and I've seen many opening TRO and set BTH. A smart player plays around it...which is not hard to do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaouJudai Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 it should have been at 1 long ago - agruing otherwise is clinging to a sack card which the above post clearly defines it's advantages. Excuse me while I remember all the times I used Nobleman of Extermination on them (pauses) that said - why hasn't brain control for game been banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Griffin Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 DME's tourney banlist has this @1. DME's tourney banlist also has Widespread Ruin and Hammer Shot @1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Ok that same logic can be applied to trap hole. Just because a card generates advantage does not mean its banable or needs to be limited. The problem comes into play when a card generats mass advatge with little to no cost. BTH is 1 for 1 removal and yes it gives momentum but isnt that what the game is about? Generating and maintaing advatgae/momentum? Why should I not have an ans to when my opp SS a monster thats bigger than mine? why should I not have an ans to my opp. Summoning a monster that would give him the upper hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 I disagree, a player should not be able to make a move without a risk factor. Every action taken in a game should carry a certain level of risk. Plus it is simple 1 for 1 removal. Its not necessarily 1 for 1 removal. Hits all monsters that apply at once. In the worse case, I saw a noob with a Kaiba Deck using Return From a Different Dimension. BTH sucked in 5 monsters :P Not saying it should be/shouldn't be banned or listed though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Its not necessarily 1 for 1 removal. Hits all monsters that apply at once. In the worse case, I saw a noob with a Kaiba Deck using Return From a Different Dimension. BTH sucked in 5 monsters :P Not saying it should be/shouldn't be banned or listed though... Lol that reminds me, BTH 4 monsters when I was facing Fish OTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaouJudai Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 lolz Trap Hole should be @ 1 then. Well, if trap hole were seeing mass abuse like BOTH has then yeah it may need a hit to balance things out. I think it's more the focus of the game at that particular moment in time than anything. Why do we turn in decklists? Well catch cheaters shuh... but lolNami is watching your decks. Each and Every card. When 300 decks look like this: Bottomless x2Bottomless x2Bottomless x2Bottomless x2Bottomless x2Bottomless x2 It kinda gets their attention. Back in March they were seeing that pattern with Burial from a Diff. Dim. and it got slammed down to 1. Their baby right now is Special Summoning. And nobody hurts baby. Ah it may stay at 2 anyways. I mean my god Fissure/Smashing are at 3 now. Stardust shuts the 1 for 1 silliness down anyways. idk We really may be worried about nothing. Is it Sept yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Its a staple thats why its in every deck. Burail was limited because of the OTK it pulled out its ass in Zombies and the annoying stall with Necro Gardna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaouJudai Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 True. It's a staple because of it's impact and power..power that's a little abused lately in multiples. They did pull that OTK out their arse didnt' they - God that was annoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 True. It's a staple because of it's impact and power..power that's a little abused lately in multiples. They did pull that OTK out their arse didnt' they - God that was annoying I ran zombies so I loved it lol. But BTH is a balanced card IMO, Konami just doesn't like Un-Limited Staples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaouJudai Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 oh I can't argue about that - you're exactly right - lolz on your zombies! :D geez if the rumored lists are any indication there's not much love in there for them this next format... I think mezuki should be at 2 and goblin unl imo but yeah it's a staple - tru dat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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