Fusion Sage

[Bringerofcake]

ERRATAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081030035908/yugioh/images/6/65/FusionSageTP6-EN-SR-UE.jpg[/img]


In case you missed it, Fusion Sage only searches for Polymerization, while its card text says "Polymerization card", which implies...oh, hell just read this:
[quote]
Remember, the text on this card is a bit dated; although the phrase "1 'Polymerization' card" would nowadays suggest that it can search out any card with that in its name, such as Super Polymerization, it is only capable of searching "Polymerization" from your deck. [/quote]

Discuss cards that need to be errata'd, and how Konami is one of the most irritating game companies in existence.

[Blake]

... What the crap? That makes no sense >_>

Anyways, Woodsman and KotS say hi.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Sounds like a load of bullcrap. It should be able to search Super Polymerization if it is worded like that so yeah, if Konami doesn't want this to be able to search Super Polymerization, it should be errata'd as such.

Oh and here's one:

[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080523032821/yugioh/images/3/3b/DimensionExplosionPTDN-EN-C-1E.png[/img]

[quote=Stupid BKSS Ruling]
"Dimension Explosion" cannot be activated if either player has no monsters in their Removed Zone they can Special Summon.
[/quote]

Enough said.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Judgment Phoenix' timestamp='1284876404' post='4639554']
Enough said.
[/quote]

Dimension Explosion does not need to be errata'd. Its text is perfectly fine. =/ I shouldn't have to go through the "Special Summoning is not an option because the word 'can' is not there making it mandatory" argument again :<

Rephrasing it to "Both players then must select 1 or 2 monsters from their remove from play zones, and Special Summon them." or equivalent phrasing seems unnecessary.

[Monkey]

But it says "up to 2 of their monsters". Meaning 0,1 or 2.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Monkey' timestamp='1284878853' post='4639651']
But it says "up to 2 of their monsters". Meaning 0,1 or 2.
[/quote]

Yes, but since Special Summoning is mandatory because the word "can" is not printed in the card text, 0 is no longer an option. They must Special Summon, so they must choose 1 or 2, not 0.

You're welcome to want to rephrase it, but i don't find it necessary due to that reasoning.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1284878674' post='4639643']
Dimension Explosion does not need to be errata'd. Its text is perfectly fine. =/ I shouldn't have to go through the "Special Summoning is not an option because the word 'can' is not there making it mandatory" argument again :<Rephrasing it to "Both players then must Special Summon 1 or 2 monsters from their remove from play zone" or equivalent seems unnecessary.
[/quote]

[quote name='Monkey' timestamp='1284878853' post='4639651']
But it says "up to 2 of their monsters". Meaning 0,1 or 2.
[/quote]

Exactly.

If it said say, "Activate only when both players have at least 1 monster that can be Special Summoned removed from play." at the start then I could accept it. Of course there would have to be a ruling stopping you from Summoning Nomis (which can't be Special Summoned except by their own Effects) and Semi Nomis (which can only be Summoned if removed from play if their initial Summoning Conditions have been fulfilled) but again, those make perfect sense.

[quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1284879075' post='4639659']
Yes, but since Special Summoning is mandatory because the word "can" is not printed in the card text, 0 is no longer an option. They must Special Summon, so they must choose 1 or 2, not 0.

You're welcome to want to rephrase it, but i don't find it necessary due to that reasoning.
[/quote]

Sounds kinda stupid IMO. What about Dimension Fusion? Even if the opponent has no monsters removed from play, you can still activate it and still Summon monsters. The ruling of Dimension Explosion is kinda contriadictory to that fact. Well, I guess you could blame card design too I guess.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Judgment Phoenix' timestamp='1284879263' post='4639665']
Exactly.
[/quote]

"Exactly" nothing

*Points back to what I said*

"Up to 2" in an optional scenario includes 0. In a mandatory scenario, 0 is excluded.

Save the rephrasing for cards that require it >_> I'm waiting for some kind of update to Success Probability 0%, especially something that explains how it'd work in the real world with the inclusion of Synchros outside of my theory as to how it would be fair to randomly choose out of one set of a mixed group.

[quote name='Judgment Phoenix' timestamp='1284879490' post='4639665']
Sounds kinda stupid IMO. What about Dimension Fusion? Even if the opponent has no monsters removed from play, you can still activate it and still Summon monsters. The ruling of Dimension Explosion is kinda contriadictory to that fact.
[/quote]

That's incorrect thinking as well. "As many as possible" includes 0, because "As many as possible" is determined at resolution, not at activation. The Special Summon is indeed mandatory, so that's why at least one player must be able to Special Summon in order to activate it, but "As many as possible" can include 0 if that's as many as they that person can possibly bring out when the card resolves.

That player tried his best Special Summoned as many as he had. He had 0, so he Special Summoned 0.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1284879541' post='4639674']
"Exactly" nothing

*Points back to what I said*

"Up to 2" in an optional scenario includes 0. In a mandatory scenario, 0 is excluded.

Save the rephrasing for cards that require it >_> I'm waiting for some kind of update to Success Probability 0%, especially something that explains how it'd work in the real world with the inclusion of Synchros outside of my theory as to how it would be fair to randomly choose out of once set of a mixed group.
[/quote]

Read my edit.

Success Probability 0% could probably have its Effect changed in light of the introduction of Synchros after its printing but as it is, the player it targets could just seperate their Fusions from their Synchros (if required) and then have the opponent pick randomly from the Fusions.

[darkwolf777]

Red my edit as well.

Yes, the player it targets COULD do that, but any player could lie that way and leave some fusions in the synchro pile. How is the activator of "Success Probability 0%" supposed to know? He's not allowed to look at the Extra Deck to confirm in the example you gave that the opponent split the piles properly or not.

My way was to choose randomly from the entire pile until 2 Fusions are picked up, then destroy those two fusions and return the rest of the cards. That way the player can't lie about it.

[Manjoume Thunder]

>A thread about erratas
>No one mentioned Stratos.

lol

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1284879541' post='4639674']
That's incorrect thinking as well. "As many as possible" includes 0, because "As many as possible" is determined at resolution, not at activation. The Special Summon is indeed mandatory, so that's why at least one player must be able to Special Summon in order to activate it, but "As many as possible" can include 0 if that's as many as they that person can possibly bring out when the card resolves.That player tried his best Special Summoned as many as he had. He had 0, so he Special Summoned 0.
[/quote]

Again why it could also be attributed to card design that the designers should have addressed before release. By definition, up to 2 should mean 0, 1 or 2 regardless of whether the effect is optional or not but in this case it isn't.

[quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1284880319' post='4639698']
Red my edit as well. Yes, the player it targets COULD do that, but any player could lie that way and leave some fusions in the synchro pile. How is the activator of "Success Probability 0%" supposed to know? He's not allowed to look at the Extra Deck to confirm in the example you gave that the opponent split the piles properly or not.My way was to choose randomly from the entire pile until 2 Fusions are picked up, then destroy those two fusions and return the rest of the cards. That way the player can't lie about it.
[/quote]

The player could always be required to show the opponent their Extra Deck after picking out all their Fusions as well as their Fusions to verify that there are none left in the Extra Deck before resolution. Your way could work too I suppose.

@ Manjy: Stratos was errata'd. It didn't really need it though but I don't think it's anything to complain about.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Judgment Phoenix' timestamp='1284880913' post='4639709']
The player could always be required to show the opponent their Extra Deck after picking out all their Fusions to verify that there are none left in there before resolution. Your way could work too I suppose.
[/quote]

The player has no right to verify anything though in this case, nor does he get free reign to look at the entire Extra Deck for free, so you cannot allow this because it is convenient. The only time a player has a right to confirm the Extra Deck is when the opponent does not have 2 Fusion Monsters to destroy. That's the only fair way I could come up with to handle it as the activator can't fully view the Extra Deck for Free, and the receiving player cannot lie about it.

[quote name='Judgment Phoenix' timestamp='1284880913' post='4639709']
Again why it could also be attributed to card design that the designers should have addressed before release. By definition, up to 2 should mean 0, 1 or 2 regardless of whether the effect is optional or not but in this case it isn't.
[/quote]


I'll just say this, without including any numbers at all:

"If a card told you that you MUST Special Summon (because the lack of the word 'can'), and you decided not to Special Summon anything, then you disobeyed the card's instructions that you must Special Summon."

Adding the words "Up to 2" to the card text does not change the simple fact that you MUST do it and "NONE" disobeys that rule.

[-Berserker-]

Magician's Circle and Emissary of Afterlife make you look at your opponent's deck... But I think those cases are different...

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Saikano' timestamp='1284882428' post='4639733']
Magician's Circle and Emissary of Afterlife make you look at your opponent's deck... But I think those cases are different...
[/quote]

They do but only if the opponent doesn't have a valid target for the effect (i.e. If they do not have a 2000 ATK or less Spellcaster for Magician's Circle, or a Level 3 or lower monster from their deck for Emissary of the Afterlife.) You'd get to confirm that they do not have a valid target.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1284882657' post='4639737']
They do but only if the opponent doesn't have a valid target for the effect (i.e. If they do not have a 2000 ATK or less Spellcaster for Magician's Circle, or a Level 3 or lower monster from their deck for Emissary of the Afterlife.) You'd get to confirm that they do not have a valid target.
[/quote]

Something like that could be applied to Success Probability 0% then. How would it be much different to Magician's Circle or the like? There probably will be cases that there will be no valid targets for it.

[DARKPLANT RISING]

Fusion Sage should be able to search FF.

Owait

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Judgment Phoenix' timestamp='1284883380' post='4639744']
Something like that could be applied to Success Probability 0% then. How would it be much different to Magician's Circle or the like? There probably will be cases that there will be no valid targets for it.
[/quote]

I said you could a few posts ago. In regards to Success Probability 0%:

"The only time a player has a right to confirm the Extra Deck is when the opponent does not have 2 Fusion Monsters to destroy."

[Azuh]

Half of the whole cards in the game should have the effect

"This card cannot be activated during the Damage Step"