Degrees of Skill

[Professional Duelist]

[size="2"][i]Netted from Subway_Eat_Fresh[/i][/size]

I always get arguments with people, especially with friends whenever I rate another person's skills. I was wondering what DGZ thinks of my rating system. This is for people you would see in tournaments like Regionals or YCS's.

[size="5"][u][b]Basement Dwellers:[/b][/u][/size]

People who use no sleeves, have 1000 card deck, summons Battle Ox.

[size="5"][u][b]Competent:[/b][/u][/size]

This stage of people now understand that there are tier decks in Yugioh. They have no understanding of strategy still, but still may beat you if they run decks like Lightsworn, which they purchased. They rarely top a local, and you never see them in the top tables of your local regional, unless its round 4. You see a little inner Yugioh player forming for now they feel high and mighty for occasionally winning a duels with Lightsworn. These players make tons of misplays, but there misplays sometimes do lead to their victory.

[size="5"][u][b]OK:[/b][/u][/size]

I say 90% of all Yugioh players are at this level. You have a basic understanding of strategy. You occasional top a local. You understand tier 1 decks, how to play against them. This level will have occasionally 1-2 people topping each regional and 6-8 at each YCS. This stage of people are one of the most cockiest players of all of Yugioh. Since they have had a few successes, they feel that they are unbeatable. You will constantly hear them badgering about how someone lucksacked them, when they failed to realize odds of it happening. They fail to acknowledge their misplays. They claim to know everything. They feel the need to show off or talk out of their ass.

Jarel Winston, yes I knew him way before all his success, was ok to competent. No one thought he was a good player in NY and a few months prior to his first SJC success, Shane Scurry went on a rant why him and his team suck. Now I will say he is at the Good level, but no where near pro. Due to his recent youtube fame, many people try to copy him saying pro this and pro that. This level of players try at any moment to be the center of attention. They need reassurance that they are the best. When they draw the nuts, they say they won skillfully and when they draw bad, they lost to a scrub. These players make up the majority of all YCS's, which is why pros from Europe, Canada, and all over the place do consistently well each YCS.

I talked to Bobby Chambers on why he does so well at SJCs and does ehhh at regionals. He told me that 95% of the people are bad. In SJCs, since they are so many people the likelihood of playing good to pro players throughout the tournament are quite slim, maybe once or twice throughout the whole swiss. Regionals on the otherhand are much harder to top since it is a smaller player base, there are familiar faces so people may know your give-aways, and by Round 5 you are playing only quality players.

When Vincent won a SJC and said US is trash, he is partially right. Most of the US is horrible, but the players who are good or pro are amazing, and in my opinion are only matched by a few Europeans, and I do not consider Vincent one of them.

The ok player does not pay attention to one thing that is so key in yugioh, which is something YVD will never teach you, INTERACTION. Yugioh is one on one, so it is not just enough to play with the cards, you are playing the opponent as well. Look at how Jerry, Dale, Jeff, Corn, etc win consistently. Do they draw the nuts all the time, NO. They beat their opponent. When you see at the pairings list and you see Adam Corn's name or Jerry Wang, most players s*** their brains out. THEY ARE JUST PEOPLE LIKE US. When I see a well-known to pro player, I get excited finally a challenge, got to be on my top game. By being intimidated from the start, you already lost the match. Every card they play will always be assumed to be the best card. People fail to realize Solemn Judgment is at 1, and I can't believe how many people passed on game versus a pro because they assumed every card was a Solemn Judgment. The OK player fails to realize what are LOW RISK PLAYS.

This stage is quite hard to leave, but some do. The key is to actually follow a pro, not cocksuck, but learn from them. Jerry never taught me directly, but through the matches I did play against him and seeing him play against others is how I became a good player. You need to lose the arrogance. Look at the pros, they do not get angry, unless your Adam Corn and cry about it. The pros do not need others to tell them their good, they know it. The ok player is like a dried up slut, they need the reassurance that they are good, because deep down they have little confidence in themselves as a player.

[size="5"][u][b]Good:[/b][/u][/size]

CONGRATS IF YOU ARE AT THIS LEVEL, YOU ARE BETTER THAN 90% OF YUGIOH PLAYERS. But you are still unknown to the Yugioh community, so no one actually knows your skill level. Topping Locals is no longer a feat, the only true cred now is topping regionals or YCS's. You understand Yugioh is more about the cards, it is also about the player as well. You make quality reads, or understand the probablity of something to occur. You occasionally misplay, but not to a high degree (this limits you from making the PRO level). You are not easily intimidated by pros, for you actually pose a challenge to them. You have high Yugioh IQ in strategies. You think a few moves ahead of the current turn, or think of different scenarios that can occur with each action and its probability. You go on your instincts, what may look like a misplay is actually going on your intuition. Another limiting factor to reaching the top level is consistent success at regionals and YCS's.

People often say topping locals is not a credential, which I fully agree, but I say it can be a barometer of determining a skillful player. Kings Games "supposedly the best local of all the US" is far from that in my opinion. I played there 5 times, topped each time and the first 3 times I went I won, got 2nd and won. If an outsider goes there once and basically demolishes everyone at the hardest local, it must say something about the player. My friend, who rarely plays at tournaments but is a good player, played for the first time at Kings Games and got 2nd place, going 5-0 in swiss. The player base are the players who assume they are the best or think we suck, yet we destroyed their locals whenever we decide to play. This has happened in various other locals I have attended around NY, it all remains the same. MOST YUGIOH PLAYERS ARE OK, that's it. It is just embarrassing when your home turf gets invaded by just a bunch of random duelists, when its supposed to be your local.

This level no longer feels the need to hear people saying they are good. I have gotten people saying I am trash or I am garbage or you won with a skillless deck. I am like K, WHO ARE YOU? People at this level recognize another's skill level, but does not say anything about it. The ok player assumes everyone is trash, resulting in misplays or a great amount of body language. I love playing cocky players, for I know what is facedown or what is in their hand. Since NY is mostly filled with cocky players, the result is typically the same. I win, they go on a rant how i luck sack, and I sign the match-slip form as the winner.

[size="5"][u][b]The Pro Player:[/b][/u][/size]

Jerry, Jeff, Dale, Shane, Corn, etc. What separates them from the rest? They have the qualities of a good player, but have perfected it and consistently done it. You are known at this level, people quiver playing you, which makes it easier to succeed once again.

It is easy to determine skill level simply by having a Yugioh discussion on the skill of a player or theory.

[Tourmaline]

All of my friends are at the Competent level, following this. One of them is Basement Dweller, then.
I have one friend who might be at OK, and I think I'd be there, as well.

Although two of my friends are scared of dueling me, because they think I'm out of their leagues.

[reaperdeath]

According to your rating system, I am "Ok".
I am never cocky, quite the opposite. I realize that I am probably going to lose most of the time. (Because everyone uses those evil meta decks that swarm to death. Blackwings vs aliens, bad combo for me).
I can make a decent deck, but nothing outstanding. I do misplay, but pretty much right after I do it, I'm like "DOH! I should have done that!". I think through most things.

My brother is "Good". It's an amazing day when I can make a deck out of my 1600 cards that can beat his plants.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Well, also what makes you able to win tournaments is having the right cards. Not that it's a giant factor, but a lot of duelists can't dedicate everything to their hobby, and people like me have a very small (in comparison) pool of cards to use. I can buy cards online, sure, but I can't buy tons of packs or the big cards that I can stick in my deck. That screws me over from ever being able to truly compete. I'm not trying to make excuses or anything, I'm just saying this is one factor in a list of things that can make a good player, whereas defined as somebody who wins tournaments. Obviously there are people who can be good players but have really crappy cards in their decks (simply because of a small cardpool, not because of poor decision making).

For myself, I feel like I fall under the OK category, but I'm not really cocky or rude unless my opponent is being an A-hole. I've won a lot of my locals when we had them, but it was mostly against bad players so there's not much to be said there. I am proactive and try and think what might be coming, usually able to guess exactly what card my opponent is going to flip over (Meta decks, am I right?). The person I duel against in real life is like the people in the scenario which was posted involving passing because they thought Solemn was set. If he thinks I have a single counter, he's 50% likely to end his turn. He also wont take most of my advice, and got mad the other day when I beat him... But yeah. Most of my misplays are when my opponent takes a break in the game after doing some sort of counter. My mind usually goes blank for some reason, and I forget the moves I was going to make (usually an attack or a card set).

[Professional Duelist]

Saying you're going to lose is part of the reason you lose. Game is mind game.

[Buttercup]

You can't overstress the importance of statistical analysis.

[Tourmaline]

Also, can you not judge a player by how they make a deck?

I know it is mostly based on how a player uses his/her cards to create combos or such to use all his or her cards to their abilities' extents, but knowing what cards to make those combos and putting proper cards in a deck is crucial, as well.

Keeping calm is obviously important as well. If you can keep a calm composure, you can always keep the opponent on edge, making them feel a bit nervous to attack or activate a card effect. Although the second half has already been stated. I think a player should be rated similarly to in a school, for example. Where it is basically an average of three numbers out of one-hundred that decide overall skill.

Although that system tends to be flawed.

[Professional Duelist]

Who judged on how they make a deck?

[-Griffin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOHJa5Vj5Y

Video highly relevant.
Just saying.

[Tourmaline]

[quote name='Professional Duelist' timestamp='1291499486' post='4829415']
Who judged on how they make a deck?
[/quote]

I didn't mean judge. Sorry, incomplete sentence.

I asked if it was possible to judge one's skill level based on how they build their decks, and how they could use cards to their full extent.

[Professional Duelist]

[quote name='-Griffin' timestamp='1291499495' post='4829416']
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOHJa5Vj5Y

Video highly relevant.
Just saying.
[/quote]
Relevant to what exactly?


[quote name='Paranoia Infinite' timestamp='1291499693' post='4829427']
I didn't mean judge. Sorry, incomplete sentence.

I asked if it was possible to judge one's skill level based on how they build their decks, and how they could use cards to their full extent.
[/quote]
I wouldn't base it on how they build their deck.

If by build your deck, meaning what the deck looks like, that's not something you judge a player by unless it obviously shows bad cards. Meaning 3 Celtic Guardian/2 Beaver Warrior.

[-Griffin]

The topic .-. You'd know if you watched it.

[Professional Duelist]

Is it relevant near the end or something?

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

It's relevant to competency and what competency in a person means.

[-Griffin]

.-. wow, it's not that hard to watch, is it?

Either way, it's about how people over-estimate their abilities, which is why bad players under-estimate good players. It also points out how okay-but-not-pro players over-estimate other people (the 'every card is Solemn' attitude you mentioned).

[DARKPLANT RISING]

[quote name='Professional Duelist' timestamp='1291497367' post='4829303']I say 90% of all Yugioh players are at this level.[/quote]

Oreally? At least, in Japan, it's not. How many people go to locals in your town?

I'm "Competent". Never won a local. Then again, it's Japan, where everyone has Tier 1 decks.

[Legend Zero]

I'd say I'm OK, mostly because I've never gone to a Regionals and prefer fun decks over meta. I don't understand how you can categorize OK players as braggers...maybe its just where I live but there is rarely a person like that. This should be separated into two columns; 1.Accomplishments (topping, locals, and the like) 2.Attitude

[ＴＨＥ ＧＯＤ ＯＦ ＯＢＥＬＩＳＫ]

Topping locals doesn't mean anything.
Jeff is just Konami's pawn.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

Me and my bro are competent.

In my local area, we're filled with other competent players.

Only difference between me and them:

I don't do meta.

And such why they call me a idiot and sometimes lose to me.

(I'd say a every 2 matches I win.... Then again, that's when I'm not using Greed Ovarload)

[Brinolovania]

I'm OK...but I can say that I'm not cock. I realize that I'm not that good. But I pretty much always top 8 my locals...but they suck hard.

[Toffee.]

I would say I'm "good", but apparently you have to go to locals and what-not in order to qualify for that.
then again, I never play agenst anything meta-like xD

Therefor, I'm in the "OK" section.

[Bringerofcake]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1291516301' post='4830002']
I would say I'm "good", but apparently you have to go to locals and what-not in order to qualify for that.
then again, I never play against anything meta-like xD

Therefore, I'm in the "OK" section.
[/quote]

This. I actually do go to "locals" but it isn't ordained by Konami, so it's not actually locals. I do play against a few pretty good decks (I got thrashed by Infernities and haven't tested Scraps v Sabers yet, best Deck I've beaten is Frognarchs) but more often than not I don't wager it worth my money to participate, especially when there are so few people that our locals only awards prizes to the top 4. I'm much more fond of building decks.

[byak]

top of the ok portion/bottom of good portion imo.

[Professional Duelist]

Being Konami's pawn doesn't have to do with anything. Jeff is pro.

[El-Rrey]

I'm in the OK section, won locals but never went to the regionnals (it's at like 1h30 away from where i live, but they occur during school days almost everytime )