Witch of the Black Rose

[Toffee.]

[center][img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100621173555/yugioh/images/c/c6/WitchoftheBlackRoseABPF-EN-UR-1E.jpg[/img]
[quote]
This card cannot be Special Summoned. When this card is Normal Summoned while you control no cards, draw 1 card and reveal it. If the card you drew is not a Monster Card, send it to the Graveyard and destroy this card.[/quote][/center]
To start, the inability to Special Summon it is sort of a negative because most Spellcaster support offers easy Special Summons. Though on the other hand, Witch of the Black Rose is a vital card to any deck that is, or mostly is, nothing but monster cards. As with that sort of deck, you get a free draw in addition to having 1700ATK beatstick. Another nice bit of this card is that its a Tuner. Black Knight Dark easily takes advantage of this, as it combos nicely with Gallis the Star Beast for an easy level 7 Synchro monster. And sure you cant always get the "draw 1" effect to go off, but in a deck that can easily take advantage of that, it isn't really a problem. Honestly, Black Rose Witch makes for a great starting move in a deck that can effectively take advantage of it.

Discuss Black Rose Witch, and various decks that could/can make use of its drawing effect.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Well, obviously the main use for it is in Spell-heavy decks, which is what they expect Spellcasters to be. I'm actually glad that its effect doesn't go off every time it's Summoned, because otherwise you would have roughly a 50% chance of wasting a Tuner, then never being able to get it back. In terms of stats and Level, it's one of the best Tuners for Spellcasters, and I could see it being played more if it weren't for the SS clause. Everyone seems too focused on speed nowadays to run anything like this.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1291682680' post='4834943']
Well, obviously the main use for it is in Spell-heavy decks, which is what they expect Spellcasters to be.[/quote]
Though I though of this: Konami might have planned this to be part of some obscure Bubbleman.dek, in which you use up all the cards in your hand, and miraculously draw into something like Gorz.

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1291682680' post='4834943']I'm actually glad that its effect doesn't go off every time it's Summoned, because otherwise you would have roughly a 50% chance of wasting a Tuner, then never being able to get it back.[/quote]
This is partially a reason [i]why[/i] I like using this card. It actually requires a bit of dedication in order to have it turn into an amazing card.

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1291682680' post='4834943']In terms of stats and Level, it's one of the best Tuners for Spellcasters, and I could see it being played more if it weren't for the SS clause.[/quote]
Indeed it would be a wouldful Tuner to use, though the gimmick that it implys, on how it tends to force a specific deck, is what makes it interesting. Though it would be possible to make a monster-heavy Spellcaster build. Seeing as how you could tech cards like Magical Merchant for some added "Turbo"-gimmicks.

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1291682680' post='4834943']Everyone seems too focused on speed nowadays to run anything like this.
[/quote]
Pretty much :/

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1291683042' post='4834960']
Though I though of this: Konami might have planned this to be part of some obscure Bubbleman.dek, in which you use up all the cards in your hand, and miraculously draw into something like Gorz.

This is partially a reason [i]why[/i] I like using this card. It actually requires a bit of dedication in order to have it turn into an amazing card.

Indeed it would be a wouldful Tuner to use, though the gimmick that it implys, on how it tends to force a specific deck, is what makes it interesting. Though it would be possible to make a monster-heavy Spellcaster build. Seeing as how you could tech cards like Magical Merchant for some added "Turbo"-gimmicks.
[/quote]
- Only problem with that is that you'll be tossing the card you draw if it's a monster with this girl. Which could be useful for Mill, but then you're also paying the cost of your Normal Summon and losing a monster that you can't easily bring back.

- True enough. Can't really use it any other way. No abuse on first turn for non-dedicated decks. I mean, you could try to, but as I already said...

[Toffee.]

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1291683486' post='4834981']
- Only problem with that is that you'll be tossing the card you draw if it's a monster with this girl. Which could be useful for Mill, but then you're also paying the cost of your Normal Summon and losing a monster that you can't easily bring back.[/quote]
You only mill the card you draw if its a spell or trap.
If you draw a monster, you keep it. Thats why I was saying this makes for a very nice opening move in a dedicated deck.

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1291683486' post='4834981']- True enough. Can't really use it any other way. No abuse on first turn for non-dedicated decks. I mean, you could try to, but as I already said...
[/quote]
Thing is, Spellcasters tend to be more Spell/Trap heavy. So for the most part, this card just seems odd as a Spellcaster-Type. Nice effect, just an odd type choice for what the effect was meant for.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

I made a mistake reading the card again. I seem to be doing that a lot this week. But with that in mind, I can see this being used in said Monster heavy decks. And since they don't have a lot of revival anyways, I don't think there would be too much of a problem with it not being able to be Special Summoned.

[Bringerofcake]

Actually, considering the type and Attribute matchups, and its effect, this looks like it would work well in Gravekeepers. Admittedly it's a dead card once it's in the Graveyard, but it can work decently with the Keepers already on the field (which there often are) and based on the ratios for Keepers, you could pull off something cool.

[Canadian]

It combos with By Order of the Emporer so it's always a +1 in any deck without fear; but that would require you to run a continous trap card which is bad.

Seriously, I find this card to be aweful. Maybe becaues Yugimonz are just so f-faaa......ugh *deep breathes*.... fast nowadays. Sure, you can get an extra monster into your hand but whats the benefit from that if its not something like Gorz or Battle Fader to protect the Witch itself from getting run over next turn?

1700 ATK is decent on most cards to be victorious in battle, but if your throwing your only summon out there for a chance to +1 your only going to end up losing your field advantage because next turn it will just get run over. Why not invest part of your deck into something that if summoned will benefit your deck/field/or the situation at hand rather than just stalling for eventual defeat.

On another note, it's terrible in a Spellcaster-Type deck. The fact it can't be special summoned completely kills it's flow with the rest of the deck.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

[quote name='Bringerofcake' timestamp='1291683975' post='4835011']
Actually, considering the type and Attribute matchups, and its effect, this looks like it would work well in Gravekeepers. Admittedly it's a dead card once it's in the Graveyard, but it can work decently with the Keepers already on the field (which there often are) and based on the ratios for Keepers, you could pull off something cool.
[/quote]
EDIT: (For its Effect) They don't have revival, but the GKs that won the tourney only run around 15 monsters, and have tons of searchers, making that number lower with each passing turn. You're much more likely to draw a Spell or Trap, this destroying this card and losing it, which in the case of Necrovalley and Royal Tribute would be very devastating.

(Being a Tuner) It would be a decent addition, but GKs rely on their low monster numbers and very specific cards to win. Adding this might ruin the ratio.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1291684033' post='4835014']
1700 ATK is decent on most cards to be victorious in battle, but if your throwing your only summon out there for a chance to +1 your only going to end up losing your field advantage because next turn it will just get run over. Why not invest part of your deck into something that if summoned will benefit your deck/field/or the situation at hand rather than just stalling for eventual defeat.
[/quote]
The trick to this card, is that it requires more of a strategical play.
Just randomly summoning it wont work(in most cases)

[Canadian]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1291684284' post='4835025']
The trick to this card, is that it requires more of a strategical play.
Just randomly summoning it wont work(in most cases)
[/quote]
idgi, all you'd do would be having a chance of getting a 1700 ATK beater on the field without losing advantage. Maybe if you had a level 3 out and made BRD than you had Gorz in your hand to follow up? It just seems like a bad card to me.

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

High Monster Beat is possibly the only Deck that could really make any use of this.

In other circumstances, there are a plethora of other cards that can do this card's job but better (Being a Tuner)

It does looks really cool ultimate rare though..

[Dr. Cakey]

Isn't Birdman more of the reason Hidden Knight Dark exists?

Either way, this was made for High Monster Beat/Hidden Knight Dark/etc. Even though it wasn't - it was made to counteract the effects of the Sad Story cards. Crappily.

EDIT: Meant Black Night Dark. Whoops.

[Azmodius]

No. I've seen many builds not even use this. While this is good for a all monster deck like BKD, it's kinda pointless and not the reason for BKD.