Exceed Summon

[Resident Fascist]

Does that mean we'll see S*** ton of these things and almost no synchros? Like what happened to fusions?

[Manjoume Thunder]

eh there are too many restrictions to break the mechanic.

obviously they will release a broken 1 every once in a while but they won't become like synchros

edit: at least we will have the 5ds manga to get some syncrhos

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='Shard Of Stardust' timestamp='1292347985' post='4852019']
Does that mean we'll see S*** ton of these things and almost no synchros? Like what happened to fusions?
[/quote]
Trad sees fusions with the Magical Scientist/Turtle OTK. Some Assault Modes decks see Instant Fusion too. Also.....E-Heroes

@Chillaccino: Post the links?

[.Nu-13]

[quote name='Manjoume Thunder' timestamp='1292348104' post='4852024']
eh there are too many restrictions to break the mechanic.
[/quote]

Sure, because adding "This card can be Exceed Summoned by *insert something easy to do here*" is so hard to do :/

[quote name='Manjoume Thunder' timestamp='1292348104' post='4852024']
obviously they will release a broken 1 every once in a while but they won't become like synchros
[/quote]

Who knows?

It's Theory-Oh for now

[Buttercup]

I thought the cannots were cans.

............Gadgets?

[.Nu-13]

[quote name='Manjoume Thunder' timestamp='1292348104' post='4852024']
edit: at least we will have the 5ds manga to get some syncrhos
[/quote]

WE'RE SAVED!

Or maybe there will be still some in Zexal, like there were Fusions in 5D's.

[quote name='Ser Warjacksworth' timestamp='1292348208' post='4852029']
I thought the cannots were cans.

............Gadgets?
[/quote]

Actually... pro for Level 8 Exceeds

[Resident Fascist]

ZEXAL Looks stupid anyways. While there are enough synchros, It'd be a shame to see the popularity of them fade away because of "Exceed Summon"

[.Nu-13]

Am I the only one here which actually LIKES the new concept?

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

If you can count tokens, I see it as broken

[.Nu-13]

Depends if the overlaid monsters are first sent to the Graveyard, or they're stacked instantly. If instantly, gosh, so broken

[evilfusion]

[quote name='Ser Warjacksworth' timestamp='1292347162' post='4851991']
You know how in MTG and WOW they release cool new mechanics in each set?

Well this is like the opposite of that x infinity

wtf at another TeleDAD format.
[/quote]

If I recall correctly, doesn't Magic ban complete sets, and part of its entire concept revolve around cards that screw the rules in inventive ways?

Yu-gi-oh at least tries to implement new mechanics, but it's not that easy after 11 years, to keep introducing mechanics and making them strong enough to be considered without making one deck or archetype supremely overpowered. The banlist tries to regulate this with debatable success.

This seems to be Synchros, a bit more restrictive, but more of a benefit if you succeed, using the deck/hand rather than Extra Deck. Synchros are still better until we see evidence of their labors.

[Catterjune]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1292343301' post='4851883']
Most likely, Excess monsters might replace Tuners in most people's decks.
[/quote]
Unless they come out with some hideously broken stuff, I disagree. Tuners can still be normal summoned and set. Excess monster's can not.

Giving up consistency for protection... eh... I dunno. The mechanic seems flawed unless something more broken then tuners and synchros appears, and I honestly don't wanna see something more broken then synchros.

As for support, easily stuff that could change it's level on command (probably only when used for an Excess Summon) or a lot more low level support (ala Limit Reverse) to summon more low level cards.

... The fact that they go from hand to field is what I think makes them rather underwhelming.

[quote]Depends if the overlaid monsters are first sent to the Graveyard, or they're stacked instantly. If instantly, gosh, so broken [/quote]

This post reminds me of other game mechanics. How would Goblin Zombie or Sangan work here? As overlayed monsters, are they considered to be "on the field"?

[HaouJudai]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1292344101' post='4851908']
Thunderfist was a purely hypothetical example.

I don't think that'll happen. I think it's more likely Excess Monsters will just be very powerful and easy to use, just like the first Synchros. They'll be good enough to try to use, and then later support will make them even stronger and faster, just like Synchros, and making Synchros not as effective, just like what Synchros did to Rituals and Fusions.

Since this is evidently coming in the wake of 5Ds, maybe the whole plot of the anime is leading up to a veiled instance of Konami implying/admitting that Synchro Summon was a horribly broken idea and that if we dont stop using them, the world is going to be destroyed. All while advertising the use of Synchros so we buy their cards.
[/quote]
So you're saying they'll be phased out by power creep? In other words we'll switch over to the Lions that chased away the wolves? That does seem to be Troll-Nami's method of introducing new themes lately.

Everyone stops playing GB to switch to Scraps? (didn't actually happen.....well maybe a little) I really hope that's not how this is going to happen. Konami needs to make their regulatory agency get out of the power it regulates bed. They need to regulate the power creep through the ban list and not by superseding sets by making each consecutive one more broken than the other.

That said - my god your last paragraph was epic. It's just like in their TV show the main characters are all casual duelists who play piles of random and are guided by the 'power' to draw exactly what they need when they need it without actually stacking or cheating to do it. The reality of their game is nothing like the values they propose on their saturday morning show.

Well at least the new guy doesn't play cards on a motorcycle.

[~British Soul~]

OMG - Exceed monster? - wtf, i don't think i'm gonna run these when they come out

[.Nu-13]

[quote name='PikaPerson01' timestamp='1292349630' post='4852070']
This post reminds me of other game mechanics. How would Goblin Zombie or Sangan work here? As overlayed monsters, are they considered to be "on the field"?
[/quote]

I... don't know, but I think yes. We must wait for official rulings on Exceeds

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1292349479' post='4852066']
If I recall correctly, doesn't Magic ban complete sets, and part of its entire concept revolve around cards that screw the rules in inventive ways?
[/quote]

Actually Magic has never banned any set....
Some cards yes...

Which happens is that MTG has different playstyle much as the way Advanced and Traditional Format works

In MTG there is
Competitive formats:
Block: Which allows the use of card from a Main set and its 2 Expansions
Standar: Which allows the use of cards from the last 2 blocks including that year's Core set
Extended: Which allows the use of card from the last 7 Years worth on MTG cards
Legacy: Which allows the use of everything from 1993 till (ATM) Scars of Mirrodin (With a Forbidden card list)

There are also other formats (All of these are casual formats)
Two Headed Giant (2 on 2 games)
Planechase (This ones uses special cards that works like YGO Field Spells)
Archenemy (1 on X players)
Elder Dragon Highlander (Name should make it clear)

[evilfusion]

[quote name='eviljudai' timestamp='1292349795' post='4852074']
So you're saying they'll be phased out by power creep? In other words we'll switch over to the Lions that chased away the wolves? That does seem to be Troll-Nami's method of introducing new themes lately.

Everyone stops playing GB to switch to Scraps? (didn't actually happen.....well maybe a little) I really hope that's not how this is going to happen. Konami needs to make their regulatory agency get out of the power it regulates bed. They need to regulate the power creep through the ban list and not by superseding sets by making each consecutive one more broken than the other.

That said - my god your last paragraph was epic. It's just like in their TV show the main characters are all casual duelists who play piles of random and are guided by the 'power' to draw exactly what they need when they need it without actually stacking or cheating to do it. The reality of their game is nothing like the values they propose on their saturday morning show.

Well at least the new guy doesn't play cards on a motorcycle.
[/quote]

Not that they will. That it's the best/most likely strategy for phasing them out. Synchros dominate the game and phased out Rituals, most Fusions, and Tribute Summons (except Monarchs) because they're beatsticks with effects that are swiftly and flexibly summoned.

To make Exceed Summons worth playing over the powerful Synchro monsters, they CANT ban them. Why? Because they'll piss everybody off. They've been advertising Synchros like mad, packs are crammed with Synchro/Tuner or Synchro support. To ban too many would to make the concept almost unplayable and send Yu-gi-oh back a whole generation. All the money invested on both sides will go to waste. Imagine the rage if Stardust Dragon was banned. All of Stardust's support is dead. All of the fanboys will go nuts, and people will probably say "Screw this game" and quit. Better for some, worse on so many levels.

After episode 135, almost all Synchro hate can be related to some aspect of the show. I'm rather fond of the "Machine Emperors kill everyone" version.

[quote name='$super**$star**$silver$' timestamp='1292349889' post='4852077']
OMG - Exceed monster? - wtf, i don't think i'm gonna run these when they come out
[/quote]

Quick check. How many people said this exact thing about Synchros?

How many of them run Synchros now?

[HaouJudai]

but evil[size="1"]hero[/size]fusion, you said e heroes are bad. (over on stardust topic) I think konami will power creep/ban whatever makes them a buck in the end - the banlist is a tool for profit - but I don't think they are overly concerned with how we feel in the end.

I don't think they will ban synchros by any stretch of the imagination. They will haou-ever over time begin to phase them out - first Stardust will go to 1 - goyo will be banned - colossal to 1 and so forth - not in the same format - but over time yes.

and e heroes are getting better too - we need the good stuff jp is hoarding like crazy cat ladies.

[.Nu-13]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1292350343' post='4852087']
Quick check. How many people said this exact thing about Synchros?

How many of them run Synchros now?
[/quote]

FINALLY!
I was wondering when someone posts that...
The exact situation was with Synchros. They looked bad at first, and now what? They're ridiculous.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

I forsee them creating cards that support Overlaid cards. Such as:

Split-Off
Normal Spell Card
Special Summon[/return to the hand] 1[/all] Overlaid monster[s] under an Exceed Monster you control.

Or something that gets rid of Overlaid monsters for effects.

[evilfusion]

You know full well I specifically said Neos was bad, and it was a reference to how Yusei's ace is actually playable compared to Yugi and Jaden's.

The generic fusions is what makes Eheroes much better. We need Great Tornado and Shining now, plus that Fire one that just came out.

The best way to phase something out is to make something better in comparison. Enter Exceed Summon. Will they phase out Synchros? Or will it become a wasted mechanic?

[HaouJudai]

look at you guys go - lol you're really excited about this new mechanic - wow konami knows more than we give them credit for I believe

@ E-Fusion - Synchro will be reduced I think more by the banlist - or really I HOPE they use the banlist - they may go with pure powercreep which frightens me.

Our yugi-conomy is on a power bubble very similar to the housing market. if it's pumped full of more and more power then at some point the bubble bursts and duels are decided on the die roll. Skill becomes irrelevant. Luck is paramount.

That's when our yugi stock market will crash. Event attendance will plummet and sales will tank. but konami is much smarter than we give them credit for. They'll balance things out.

[evilfusion]

[quote name='Chillaccino' timestamp='1292350614' post='4852101']
FINALLY!
I was wondering when someone posts that...
The exact situation was with Synchros. They looked bad at first, and now what? They're ridiculous.
[/quote]

I remember when Synchros first came out. I remember thinking they wouldn't be any good and the idea, while good, was too slow and not worth the deck investment of tuners. Then I found this site, got smarter, got YVD, did some playtesting. Synchros are one of the most powerful concepts introduced to the game.

Knowing how I felt on Synchros' release, I know this anti-Exceed assumption is just a repeat of the dawn of the Synchro era.

[HaouJudai]

hey E-Fusion, you mentioned the machine emporers - can we get a topic created/bumped about their future impact on synchros? How splashable are those? What impact will they have on synchros?

[Catterjune]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1292350343' post='4852087']
To make Exceed Summons worth playing over the powerful Synchro monsters, they CANT ban them. Why? Because they'll piss everybody off. They've been advertising Synchros like mad, packs are crammed with Synchro/Tuner or Synchro support. To ban too many would to make the concept almost unplayable and send Yu-gi-oh back a whole generation. All the money invested on both sides will go to waste. Imagine the rage if Stardust Dragon was banned. All of Stardust's support is dead. All of the fanboys will go nuts, and people will probably say "Screw this game" and quit. Better for some, worse on so many levels.
[/quote]
This was exactly the mindset of the people against the banning of the cookie cutter decks of the Chaos era. (Not just the Chaos Monsters, but also Change of Heart, Pot of Greed, and other ancient relics of the era)

In the end, Konami only cares about profits. If everyone clings onto the old packs, the only way to push more products out the door is to ban a few cards from the older sets. And if people quit, it's not a big deal because they weren't buying the new packs anyway.