Goodnight Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090130211139/yugioh/images/7/77/Tribe-InfectingVirusSD4-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img] This is a card that should have came back from the ban list. Blackwings have owned the meta for the longest time, and now Six Samurai will now start to see play again and will either be the new king or be up top with BWs. It has a reasonable cost, takes up a normal summon and has a low attack that can get it ran over by a number of regularly played monsters. They gave us Dark Hole, why would they keep a severely less powerful version(super extremely less powerful...) of Black Hole banned? also... I'm only just now noticing the rabbit in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkaiser Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 With the new priority, he's more than "fair" now. Bring him back, Konami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 *Opponent has 3 Sirrocos, a Bora, and an Armor Master* *I summon TIV* I declare Winged-Beast types. Opponent: FUUUUUUU- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Dementuo' timestamp='1298335672' post='5024897'] *Opponent has 3 Sirrocos, a Bora, and an Armor Master* *I [b]activate Dark Hole[/b]* I d[b]ont waste my normal summon[/b]. Opponent: FUUUUUUU- [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Just because we have one overpowered card doesn't mean we need more. It should not come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodnight Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1298336975' post='5024938'] Just because we have one overpowered card doesn't mean we need more. It should not come back. [/quote] The problem with that thought is that it's not overpowered. At least I can't think of a reason how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Goodnight' timestamp='1298337924' post='5024980'] The problem with that thought is that it's not overpowered. At least I can't think of a reason how it is. [/quote] At worse it makes every card in your hand 1 for 1 removal. At best it's a reusable Lightning Vortex that swings for 1/5 life. The fact that it totally hoses decks built around types doesn't help it's case. Really, compared to most to most cards we have this isn't overpowered, but that doesn't mean it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodnight Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 The turn it is first summoned and its effect is used, at minimum it's a 2-1. (wastes a summon and discard a card). And I doubt a 1600attacker will last more than a turn. But I suppose arguing about it wont do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdoopertrooper Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1298339309' post='5025041'] At worse it makes every card in your hand 1 for 1 removal. At best it's a reusable Lightning Vortex that swings for 1/5 life. The fact that it totally hoses decks built around types doesn't help it's case. Really, compared to most to most cards we have this isn't overpowered, but that doesn't mean it isn't. [/quote] It's honestly a crap card. It's arguably worse than lightning vortex. Same cost as vortex, but vortex destroys all opponents face-ups, tribe only destroys face-ups of one type. Vortex doesn't waste your normal summon. And under the new rulings going around, Tribe is one of the worst cards in the game. I wouldn't even play it, I wouldn't even side it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodnight Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 agreed, but it's not its playabilty we are discussing, it's its bannability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Goodnight' timestamp='1298339742' post='5025070'] The turn it is first summoned and its effect is used, at minimum it's a 2-1. (wastes a summon and discard a card). And I doubt a 1600attacker will last more than a turn. But I suppose arguing about it wont do anything. [/quote] Um....since when has losing your normal summon counted as losing advantage? Really, explain that please. It doesn't need that big a body to do it's job. You play it, kill your opponent's creatures, swing for 1/5 damage. Even if it's dead on your next go around it's already done it's job. [quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1298341580' post='5025207'] It's honestly a crap card. It's arguably worse than lightning vortex. Same cost as vortex, but vortex destroys all opponents face-ups, tribe only destroys face-ups of one type. Vortex doesn't waste your normal summon. And under the new rulings going around, Tribe is one of the worst cards in the game. I wouldn't even play it, I wouldn't even side it. [/quote] It can be worse then Vortex, but it can also be much better. Again, even if it is worse it's still reusable removal and I fail to see how that is "crap". Also odds are only a couple monster on your opponent's field will be immediate threats anyway so it not being a vortex won't hurt you much anyway. And you need to remember the meta is currently type based so odds are this will act as, or very close to Vortex most of the time. And again, why is wasting your normal summon a bad thing? Your doing it to set up a monster that swings for 20% of your opponent's life as well as having the ability to kill all your opponent's creature. Next your going to tell me Sangan is bad because it wastes your normal summon too. And how does the new ruling totally kill this? Explain please? The biggest cards I see screwing this over are BTH and BoM meaning at best you'll have 6 of them. However the banlist makes it so you only get half that. Also that is an OCg rule, and while the TCG can get it too, we don't know right now if it will or won't. And really, to call this one of the worse cards in the game makes me think you haven't seen most of the cards in the game. Also the fact remains that totally hosing all decks built around types is not something we should have in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdoopertrooper Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1298344194' post='5025312'] It can be worse then Vortex, but it can also be much better. Again, even if it is worse it's still reusable removal and I fail to see how that is "crap". Also odds are only a couple monster on your opponent's field will be immediate threats anyway so it not being a vortex won't hurt you much anyway. And you need to remember the meta is currently type based so odds are this will act as, or very close to Vortex most of the time. And again, why is wasting your normal summon a bad thing? Your doing it to set up a monster that swings for 20% of your opponent's life as well as having the ability to kill all your opponent's creature. Next your going to tell me Sangan is bad because it wastes your normal summon too. And how does the new ruling totally kill this? Explain please? The biggest cards I see screwing this over are BTH and BoM meaning at best you'll have 6 of them. However the banlist makes it so you only get half that. Also that is an OCg rule, and while the TCG can get it too, we don't know right now if it will or won't. And really, to call this one of the worse cards in the game makes me think you haven't seen most of the cards in the game. Also the fact remains that totally hosing all decks built around types is not something we should have in the game. [/quote] Most of the meta is type based, yes, and that in itself reinforces my point about why people wont play it. Sam's wont play it, blackwing's wont play it, x-sabers won't play it. They simply don't have room for the bloody thing. It's much better to go boggart > pashuul > faultroll, than it is to summon tribe, discard a precious combo card in your hand just to destroy your opponents face-ups of a certain type that the last combo could have done much better at anyway. Same with blackwings, can they Icarus it? Will it gie them a whirlwind search? If a top tier deck wanted to clear their opponents monsters, why wouldn't they just play dark hole? And that's what I mean about wasting the normal summon, the fact that it lacks synergy with your deck itself and prevents you from being able to pull off bigger plays. The ruling severely hampers this card too, obviously. You can't call priority when yo summon it, which leaves it totally vulnerable to X amount of cards. Book, bottomless, compulsory, trap hole (which might start seeing more play because of the ruling), etc. I'd bet that if it went to 3 you wouldn't even notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 If people say that cards like Scrap Dragon is overpowered, then this is overpowered too. It has higher than base Attack, can be Special Summoned, its effect can be used multiple times, and it's a type-killer. Just drop it almost any time and it will be useful. It doesn't have the pitfalls of Vortex, being that it won't be a wasted card after it destroys, and it can come back a LOT easier too. And any card that can instantly be a +2 and higher is bad. Some exceptions have been made because they help cover some flaws in the game, but adding more "Dark Hole" cards to the mix doesn't make Dark Hole less powerful, it makes it more likely to draw and win by pure BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodnight Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 okay, so lets just say overall it still needs to be banned. But here's how the scenerio would probably play out anyways. Summon TIV. opponent Solemn ____'s it. or activates Icarus Attack and tributes one of it's 3-4 winged beasts on the field to destroy it before it can use it's effect. Or TIV gets summoned and gets to use its effect and it destroys 3-4 cards. Next turn opponent summons Shura and Bora, attacks with shura and kills it, summons Vayu or w/e, and and were right back where we were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdoopertrooper Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1298346029' post='5025373'] If people say that cards like Scrap Dragon is overpowered, then this is overpowered too. It has higher than base Attack, can be Special Summoned, its effect can be used multiple times, and it's a type-killer. Just drop it almost any time and it will be useful. It doesn't have the pitfalls of Vortex, being that it won't be a wasted card after it destroys, and it can come back a LOT easier too. And any card that can instantly be a +2 and higher is bad. Some exceptions have been made because they help cover some flaws in the game, but adding more "Dark Hole" cards to the mix doesn't make Dark Hole less powerful, it makes it more likely to draw and win by pure BS. [/quote] Scrap dragon isn't overpowered. /scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I'm on the side that thinks this would be okay coming back. ITT: -Lightning Vortex is overpowered. -This is comparable to Scrap Dragon. A 2800 ATK beatstick that can come from the Extra Deck at any time and is not always a 1 for 1 removal and in certain Decks it recycles Scraps. (of course I'm not saying necessarily that Scrap Dragon is overpowered or not, but Tribe Infecting is considerably weaker) -Being able to attack is overpowered. Really. This (as said above) does not find easy space in themed/Type Decks (which are most of the Decks being used anyways). I rarely see people overextending monsters and when I do, they usually either win that turn, get stopped by other stuff like Book or Prison, or they have ways to protect their cards (Warning, Solemn, My Body, etc.). Even if the opponent overextended, didn't have protection, and didn't win that turn, I usually see Synchros around, which tend to provide some variations in Types, making this simple 1 for 1 removal (and I mean true 1 for 1, not 1 for 1 where you can get back Level Eater out of nowhere or use remnant Dandy Tokens to gain advantage). If anything, maybe Fableds might have a spot for it, but I don't really know about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1298345097' post='5025340'] Most of the meta is type based, yes, and that in itself reinforces my point about why people wont play it. Sam's wont play it, blackwing's wont play it, x-sabers won't play it. They simply don't have room for the bloody thing. It's much better to go boggart > pashuul > faultroll, than it is to summon tribe, discard a precious combo card in your hand just to destroy your opponents face-ups of a certain type that the last combo could have done much better at anyway. Same with blackwings, can they Icarus it? Will it gie them a whirlwind search? If a top tier deck wanted to clear their opponents monsters, why wouldn't they just play dark hole? And that's what I mean about wasting the normal summon, the fact that it lacks synergy with your deck itself and prevents you from being able to pull off bigger plays. The ruling severely hampers this card too, obviously. You can't call priority when yo summon it, which leaves it totally vulnerable to X amount of cards. Book, bottomless, compulsory, trap hole (which might start seeing more play because of the ruling), etc. I'd bet that if it went to 3 you wouldn't even notice. [/quote] Why would they play this first? If your talking opening turn moves then yes they will have better options. As the game progress though and you end up on the back foot, making huge combos like that isn't as easy and you can fall back on this to open the field and start getting back into the match. Also, the fact that your talking about several cards automatically gives this an advantage since this just needs itself and something else in your hand. Also you seem to be forgetting some cards like being in the grave. Icarus is slower and needs a specific another card on the field. It's now at 2 too. BWW is at one and is broken. Dark Hole is a much better option, but so is using Reborn over Call, but Call is still broken. But how many of those X cards will be used? I'd say max 6 since, as you've clearly said, the decks are cramped for space. Now what are the odds of them having any of those when you drop this? Even after 5 turns the odds of them having any of those cards is only 20%. Just because cards are nor more counter-able doesn't make them any more balanced. And yes, odds are this won't make much of an impact at 3, but the same is true for Chaos Sorcerer, but that doesn't make any less broken. Really, the meta is full of broken cards, so not being able to compete with more broken cards doesn't make them any less broken. [quote name='sleepy' timestamp='1298347900' post='5025451'] I'm on the side that thinks this would be okay coming back. ITT: -Lightning Vortex is overpowered. [/quote] When has anyone ever said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1298347826' post='5025448'] Scrap dragon isn't overpowered. /scene? [/quote] Scrap Dragon, for starters, isn't part of this conversation. Also, Scrap Dragon is a 1-for-1 that can only be used once per turn. I'm not going to add anything more to this because I already said everything that I need to say in the OTHER topic about this we had like a week ago, and if you can't see my point of view now then you never will. Also, you can't use "can be destroyed" as an excuse. All cards can be stopped or destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The ReBeL Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Dementuo' timestamp='1298335672' post='5024897'] *Opponent has 3 Sirrocos, a Bora, and an Armor Master* *I summon TIV* I declare Winged-Beast types. Opponent: FUUUUUUU- [/quote] They just play BTH when summoned because of priority rule and bwings are just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Goodnight' timestamp='1298346529' post='5025394'] okay, so lets just say overall it still needs to be banned. But here's how the scenerio would probably play out anyways. Summon TIV. opponent Solemn ____'s it. or activates Icarus Attack and tributes one of it's 3-4 winged beasts on the field to destroy it before it can use it's effect. Or TIV gets summoned and gets to use its effect and it destroys 3-4 cards. Next turn opponent summons Shura and Bora, attacks with shura and kills it, summons Vayu or w/e, and and were right back where we were. [/quote] Wouln't your opponent do that with whatever else you might send out at them? Also, Fableds are going to love this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKPLANT RISING Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [i]Seriously[/i], can't people stop discussing this? This is like, the tenth thread based on TIV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brinolovania Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Darkplant' timestamp='1298363819' post='5025872'] [i]Seriously[/i], can't people stop discussing this? This is like, the tenth thread based on TIV. [/quote] He has infected the YCM tribe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Fascist Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 You can activate this more than once per turn. I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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