evilhorus Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 [quote name='Welche' timestamp='1324420354' post='5719900'] Peten the Dark Clown becomes pro. [/quote]Exactly. Along with another 9000+ cards. It would take a loooooong time to fix it without reverting back to "missing the timing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Tracks Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 [quote name='Chaos Pudding' timestamp='1324410617' post='5719425'] How does that mean that Priority doesn't make sense and that Missing the Timing does? [/quote] [left]"If" [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3]and [/size][/font][/color][b]"[/b]When[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3]" [/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3]are interchangeable when the statement of the conditional clause is a fact or a general issue.[/size][/font][/color][/left] [left][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3]"If" [/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3]is used for something that, according to the speaker, [/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3]might happen[/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3].[/size][/font][/color][/left] [left][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3]"When" [/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3]is used for something that, according to the speaker, [/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3]will happen[/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial][size=3].[/size][/font][/color][/left] [font=Verdana, Arial][color=#000000][size=3]Missing the timing occurs because of an interesting relationship of grammar and the fact you cannot interrupt a resolving chain. Mandatory effects always start a new chain so missing the timing is not an option. Optional "If" triggers only care if the said trigger does or does not happen and will start a new chain if the effect meets the conditions. Optional "When" triggers need to happen when they trigger immediately because their effects will happen at that time. However, since The Chain must resolve first before any other effects can activate, the optional "when" effect will miss the timing due to The Chain interfering with the effect's activation timing.[/size][/color][/font] [font=Verdana, Arial][color=#000000][size=3]I only bring this up because people keep assuming Konami "Missing the Timing" out of no where. Missing the timing occurs because Konami uses proper grammar skills and refuses to make any changes when it comes to The Chain.[/size][/color][/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilhorus Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 btw topic title is wrong *Wait, what? How [i]did[/i] they just remove Priority?" I hope it happens here soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Lol@ this topic. Are you guys on Konami's payroll or something? Why defend "miss the timing" so damn much? I've read Peten the Dark Clown, and having the card literally be unable to do what it is literally written on the card because the moon isn't blue today or because someone at Konami can't write a sentence correctly is just really, beyond terrible. In a good game, some crap like "miss the timing" would not exist, because cards would be written with some regard towards the people who were gonna be playing the game, as opposed to some arbitrary "if/else/can/when" clause that makes less sense then Intro to Shakespearean Literature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTurtleOnceCalledGod Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I cannot wait for the removal of priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilhorus Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 [quote name='PikaPerson01' timestamp='1324420634' post='5719918']In a good game, some crap like "miss the timing" would not exist.[/quote]Are you saying Yu-Gi-Oh! is bad? Trick question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTurtleOnceCalledGod Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 [quote name='PikaPerson01' timestamp='1324420634' post='5719918'] In a [s]good[/s] [i]perfect[/i] game, some crap like "miss the timing" would not exist [/quote] Sadly, the children and card writers both have problems. The children (including past age 18+) do not understand how cards work, and the card effect writers come up with effects that are broken beyond belief and overall bad for the game, so often that its not even funny, but it lures in little kids to buy new cards to be competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Tracks Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 [quote name='PikaPerson01' timestamp='1324420634' post='5719918'] In a good game, some crap like "miss the timing" would not exist, because cards would be written with some regard towards the people who were gonna be playing the game, as opposed to some arbitrary "if/else/can/when" clause that makes less sense then Intro to Shakespearean Literature. [/quote] I'll just assume you're arguing against missing the timing for a healthier competitive game state. I'll then remind you that people who can't understand "if/else/can/when" clauses shouldn't be playing competitively to begin with. I will agree though that effects that can miss the timing are stupid and shouldn't have been or be made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Priority on Ignition Effects was a mistake in terms of mechanic design. That meant you could activate an effect of a monster the moment it was Successfully Summoned, before the opponent can respond to the Summon. Technically, the priority mechanic allows this, as you can use your own Torrential Tribute as Chain Link 1 when you Summon a monster, but extending it to Ignition Effects made some cards too good, such as Brionac, DAD, JD, etc. Granted, those cards are busted anyway, but priority on Ignition Effects was too abusable in many cases, so the OCG decided to get rid of it. TCG hasn't followed this yet, and cards like Rescue Rabbit are even more powerful as a result. Missing the timing is a little tricky, but honestly it's not that hard to understand once you realize WHY cards miss the timing. At its very root, it's because Trigger Effects are Spell Speed 1, so they cannot chain to other cards, and they cannot activate during a chain's resolution. Nothing can. Yu-Gi-Oh is complicated in terms of mechanics in some cases, and as time went on, this is destined to continue. There are just so many cards and rules for specific card interactions. If you understand the mechanics, there's no problem understanding why Priority on Ignition Effects is a bad thing, and why missing the timing exists. If you remove missing the timing, Optional Trigger Effects become godly, and resolving chains will become disturbingly confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I came into this topic thinking TCG finally removed priority and was like [img]http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/106/887/backpain-1292835351.jpg?1318992465[/img] Then I realized it's your average TCG topic. If you tried to remove missing the timing, which is built into the cards and is it's own mechanic, YuGiOh ceases to exist. If you remove priority, which is not built into cards, then alot of things become rebalanced without mass reprints and bans, and the game gets better. [s]Requesting lock[/s] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 [quote]I'll then remind you that people who can't understand "if/else/can/when" clauses shouldn't be playing competitively to begin with. [/quote] I'll agree to that, but the fact that it's even a thing and has to be explained to you and doesn't even make sense in terms of English is what gets me. [quote]If you remove missing the timing, Optional Trigger Effects become godly, and resolving chains will become disturbingly confusing. [/quote] That's only for the cards that were specifically written because they had "OH YEAH! We still have miss the timing to fall back on when we fudge up this effect". Honestly, it just takes a little bit of discipline in card making and you wouldn't have something like Miss the Timing be prevalent to such a degree that getting rid of it would mean you bust a good deal of cards. tl;dr - Miss the timing is stupid, because it makes things needlessly complicated. That doesn't mean I don't understand how it works, that means it is overly complex for no good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 @People who hate missing the timing: Would an Errata of "When this card is sent to the grave by an effect or battle..." be suitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 [quote name='GreigaBeastDS' timestamp='1324423751' post='5720046'] [s]Requesting lock[/s] [/quote] icwatudidthar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Just because it's too late to fix missing the timing doesn't make it any less retarded f*** you, archfiend of gilfer and woodland sprite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 When you actually think of it, it makes sense. When means the very last thing to happen, situation depending. If is always true. Thats how something like DoppelWarrior can't miss timing but Naturia Cliff can. Cba to write examples. Yuzuru has it right, but that falls under the problem of mass reprints of mostly rather useless cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 you know that missing the timing only really depends on the word "may" right? -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 In a nutshell "When" alone can't miss because it's madatory. "When, you can" misses because it wasn't the very last thing to happen. "If" alone is the same as when. "If, you can" doesn't miss because an if statement is either always true or always not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Missing the timing is a tremendous frustration, there's no denying that. [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1324424708' post='5720088'] @People who hate missing the timing: Would an Errata of "When this card is sent to the grave by an effect or battle..." be suitable? [/quote] No. Cards that miss the timing could be destroyed by an effect mid-chain and still miss the timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 >sees title [size=4]"Wait, what? How can they just remove Priority?"[/size] >topic is about missing the timing wat in regards to the topic title, removing ignition effects upon monsters being summoned is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 It makes BTH better than D-Prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 It lets Veiler/Skill Drain stop Rabbit. Which is a good thing. Losing priority would be good, and actually make the TCG fit the OCG. Missing the timing's been implemented into the game so much that removing it would most likely break so many cards. Complaining about how it would promote better design has nothing to do with it, because the cards that would abuse it are already made, and they're balanced because of that rule, and having to ban them would make such a long banlist it'd be beyond stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Exactly how would Veiler/Skill Drain stop Rabbit when Priority is removed? Doesn't Rabbit's effect activate in the banished zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Michael Geren Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Most of you are absolutely retarded. You're arguing using theory-oh. If you think your idea is so good, make a deck and play against a meta deck whilst using the new rule that you're talking about. Tell me how it goes. Also, it honestly doesn't sound too difficult to make a fan-made banlist and play the game with it if you spread the list to enough people. Works better when you have connections at DN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDDRodrigo Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 [quote name='Koloktos' timestamp='1324428549' post='5720209'] Exactly how would Veiler/Skill Drain stop Rabbit when Priority is removed? Doesn't Rabbit's effect activate in the banished zone? [/quote] No, it RESOLVES at the Banished Zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 [quote name='Koloktos' timestamp='1324428549' post='5720209'] Exactly how would Veiler/Skill Drain stop Rabbit when Priority is removed? Doesn't Rabbit's effect activate in the banished zone? [/quote] ... Really now? Where is the monster card located when the effect activates. WHERE!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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