Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Darkplant - VENOM' timestamp='1326594891' post='5764739'] Brionac is not fine, true, but without it the only good Level 6 Synchros will become Gaia Knight, Sirius, and Orient Dragon. All rather lackluster compared to other level Synchros. Level 6 Synchros need something good. Besides, its loops are stupid and inconsistent. [/quote] So don't hit something because it's the best? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Darkplant - VENOM' timestamp='1326594891' post='5764739'] Limiting Venus is stupid Limiting Earth is stupid It's either Hyperion or Ball, and I chose Ball. Brionac is not fine, true, but without it the only good Level 6 Synchros will become Gaia Knight, Sirius, and Orient Dragon. All rather lackluster compared to other level Synchros. Level 6 Synchros need something good. Besides, its loops are stupid and inconsistent. Or, we can ban Brionac and get back Goyo. Future Fusion adds variety to the gameplay. OTK variety, yes, but it's not that consistent either, and there's no problem with it at all. [/quote] Hyperion. There's no reason to limit Shine Balls. They're worthless on their own. IT's the same as Hunter and Zenmaity or Airbellum and Cat. Lv. 7 is a lot more lackluster than 6. It's full of a bunch of specific material monsters, BRD, and Scrap Archfiend. IDK, MAYBE AFD. It's fine with 2 good ones, and the second one is lackluster, too. Gaia, Sirius, and Orient are fine. Besides, arguing a card should stay because it'll make others like it meh is stupid, and pretty sure it's not allowed. Goyo is also terribly designed and doest need to come back. OTKs are bad for the game. So, addign them as variety is bad, consistent or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeal Ascendant Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 lol, you all think fufu is gonna get banned Dragons don't top, so there's not much of a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 > Why does a deck win? > Get rid of that card(s) Agents. Why does it win? Because of constant field presence in the form of Hyperion. So get rid of Hyperion. Gachi Gachi isn't the win condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='~ GMK ~' timestamp='1326595393' post='5764754'] lol, you all think fufu is gonna get banned Dragons don't top, so there's not much of a reason. [/quote] We don't think it will be. We think it SHOULD be. Because it's bad for the game =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Future Fusion is a sacky 1 card F/OTK card, that only works in like 1-2 decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 To be honest, Konami should ban absolutely everything that's badly designed, because it's the next best thing after not making it in the first place. And why, even though it won't effect the meta? [b]Because METAGAME DECKS AREN'T THE ONLY THING IN YUGIOH. AND CASUAL PLAY EXISTS.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKPLANT RISING Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Ieyasu Tokugawa' timestamp='1326595135' post='5764745'] So don't hit something because it's the best? Really? [/quote] Duh, that's what I believe and that's why I said it. [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1326595170' post='5764748'] Hyperion. There's no reason to limit Shine Balls. They're worthless on their own. IT's the same as Hunter and Zenmaity or Airbellum and Cat.[/quote] Okay sure, go with Hyperion then. I suppose that works fine too. [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1326595170' post='5764748'] Lv. 7 is a lot more lackluster than 6. It's full of a bunch of specific material monsters, BRD, and Scrap Archfiend. IDK, MAYBE AFD. It's fine with 2 good ones, and the second one is lackluster, too. Gaia, Sirius, and Orient are fine. Besides, arguing a card should stay because it'll make others like it meh is stupid, and pretty sure it's not allowed. Goyo is also terribly designed and doest need to come back.[/quote] BRD is quite enough for the Level 7 slot. You can definitely say that BRD is much more superior to Gaia Knight, Orient, and Sirius. Also, we use the Level 6 slot a lot more than the Level 7 slot in most decks. We need to keep something on there, how terribly designed it is, because more possibilities to turn the table encourages more thinking of Synchro plays, leading to a more advanced gameplay. [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1326595170' post='5764748'] OTKs are bad for the game. So, addign them as variety is bad, consistent or no. [/quote] Necesarry evil IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeal Ascendant Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 I should probably stop posting here before I say something else I regret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Ban having cards in your hand and Brionac no longer becomes a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Darkplant - VENOM' timestamp='1326595571' post='5764762'] Duh, that's what I believe and that's why I said it. Hyperion is a +1 every turn. Venus is currently a +2 (assuming you went Gachi) that thins the deck. Go figure. BRD is quite enough for the Level 7 slot. You can definitely say that BRD is much more superior to Gaia Knight, Orient, and Sirius. Also, we use the Level 6 slot a lot more than the Level 7 slot in most decks. We need to keep something on there, how terribly designed it is, because more possibilities to turn the table encourages more thinking of Synchro plays, leading to a more advanced gameplay. Necesarry evil IMO. [/quote] Yeah, that's idiotic logic. One time +1 without Avarice Constant +1s that's a giant beater How the hell are the balls the problem? Answer: They aren't. I mean, hitting venus is reasonable i nthis argument, but the BALLS? Are you RETARDED? Of course BRD is superior. But there's only 1. Seriously, all your arguments boil down to "Cause I don't think so". You're wrong. Deal with it. Brionac needs to go, and just because it's the best isn't a reason to keep it. How is it a neccesary evil? There's no reason to keep it. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKPLANT RISING Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 A minute or so before you posted I edited my post cause' I thought you were right on just there. I DO give up when I feel I was wrong. OTKs are fun, and I specifically explained the reasons why Brionac is okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1326595401' post='5764755'] > Why does a deck win? > Get rid of that card(s) Agents. Why does it win? Because of constant field presence in the form of Hyperion. So get rid of Hyperion. Gachi Gachi isn't the win condition. [/quote] Once again, this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Darkplant - VENOM' timestamp='1326595784' post='5764769'] A minute or so before you posted I edited my post cause' I thought you were right on just there. I DO give up when I feel I was wrong. OTKs are fun, and I specifically explained the reasons why Brionac is okay. [/quote] You didn'tgive one reason Brio was okay. You just said OTHER LV. 6 SUCK, KEEP BRIO ._. OTKs aren't bad for the game, casual or no. Wind-Up FTK is fun, because you win. Should we leave it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKPLANT RISING Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1326596014' post='5764773'] You didn'tgive one reason Brio was okay. [/quote] [quote name='Darkplant - VENOM' timestamp='1326595571' post='5764762']because more possibilities to turn the table encourages more thinking of Synchro plays, leading to a more advanced gameplay.[/quote] I totally didn't. [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1326596014' post='5764773'] OTKs aren't bad for the game, casual or no. Wind-Up FTK is fun, because you win. Should we leave it? [/quote] I'm not saying all OTKs should be left. My argument is that when OTKs dominate the meta it's bad for the game (See Mass Driver and Dark Strike Fighter), but as long as an OTK is inconsistent as in Future Fusion it encourages variety and is fun. For instance, Aero Shark OTK is an OTK, but it's not bad for the game at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 But inconsistency makes casual play significantly worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Darkplant - VENOM' timestamp='1326596202' post='5764775'] I totally didn't. I'm not saying all OTKs should be left. My argument is that when OTKs dominate the meta it's bad for the game (See Mass Driver and Dark Strike Fighter), but as long as an OTK is inconsistent as in Future Fusion it encourages variety and is fun. For instance, Aero Shark OTK is an OTK, but it's not bad for the game at all. [/quote] That's not a reason at all ._. Basically, the ability to come back with an OTK after holding their kill off is good for the game. HOW? Inconsistent or not, it's BAD FOR THE GAME. All it does is leave a way to go EFF YOU I WIN. Chain Material deserves a ban, too, just not as obviously as Super Foolish =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 O_O Why does everyone hate Inzektors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solemn Silver Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Charlotte The Witch' timestamp='1326596910' post='5764781'] O_O Why does everyone hate Inzektors? [/quote] cuz dey be dern broked Seriously, they combo and plus out the pooper its nuts. It was a terrible idea making them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseSymphony Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1326596373' post='5764777'] Inconsistent or not, it's BAD FOR THE GAME. All it does is leave a way to go EFF YOU I WIN. Chain Material deserves a ban, too, just not as obviously as Super Foolish =/ [/quote] I agree with Darkplant on the topic of OTKs. They suck and some are bad for the game, but wanting to ban every OTK that exists is unrealistic. OTKs are a part of the game. It's like saying you want to ban strategy in Yugioh. When the OTK is consistent in a Deck and the said Deck always wins on the first turn, then by all means ban the hell out of it. But if it doesn't, then let it be. Should we ban Cactus Fighter because it forms an OTK with All-Out Attacks? Of course not. It's strategy, and whether you like it or not, there is ALWAYS going to be an OTK strategy somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Agents win because they have good early game moves in the form of TGU, Earth and Jupiter and they also have strong finishers like Hyp, Kristya and BLS. How to hurt this? Simply limit Shineball. Suddenly agents need to get creative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='RoseSymphony' timestamp='1326601556' post='5764848'] I agree with Darkplant on the topic of OTKs. They suck and some are bad for the game, but wanting to ban every OTK that exists is unrealistic. OTKs are a part of the game. It's like saying you want to ban strategy in Yugioh. When the OTK is consistent in a Deck and the said Deck always wins on the first turn, then by all means ban the hell out of it. But if it doesn't, then let it be. Should we ban Cactus Fighter because it forms an OTK with All-Out Attacks? Of course not. It's strategy, and whether you like it or not, there is ALWAYS going to be an OTK strategy somewhere. [/quote] Even if we can't ban EVERY OTK, there are still many that deserve it, even without being completely consistent. Future Fusion, on top of making OTKs, is Foolish Burial x2, 3, 5, INFINITY. In Gem-Knights, Future Fusion can be used to dump Lazuli and Shell, which automatically add another copy to hand. It can also be used to set up the grave with more G-K, thanks to Master Dia In Dragons, it's Foolish x5. If foolish is @1, why should it be around as well? Lavals have sweltering field, which is by no means balanced, it's just not as usable as Foolish Burial. Also, ever heard of Painful Choice? It's basically that here. I should not need to elaborate about Machines >> Chain Material is infinite Fusion MAterial and has ZERO use outside of OTKs. There's no strategy to OTK. It's just rehashing the same thing over and over. You can't call that strategy, it just takes memorization. Future Fusion is nothing but Super Foolish + OTK fuel. That shouldn't be allowed to run around, even at 1. It's horrible card design.[quote name='Welche' timestamp='1326605213' post='5764902'] Agents win because they have good early game moves in the form of TGU, Earth and Jupiter and they also have strong finishers like Hyp, Kristya and BLS. How to hurt this? Simply limit Shineball. Suddenly agents need to get creative. [/quote] Zenmaity > Hunter Rescue Cat > Airbellum Venus > Shine Ball Stop being stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Even 1 Venus would be good enough in Agents. Anything after that will generally sit in hand baring a Warning. I would personally drop Venus to two, drop Shineballs to two and drop Earth to two promoting a Jupiter in the deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Welche' timestamp='1326605499' post='5764908'] Even 1 Venus would be good enough in Agents. Anything after that will generally sit in hand baring a Warning. I would personally drop Venus to two, drop Shineballs to two and drop Earth to two promoting a Jupiter in the deck. [/quote] Hit Hyperion =| Hitting Venus/Shine Balls isn't the answer, as they only need 1-2 Venus and Gachi is NOT the deck's boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poopybuttoxes Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Banned: Monster Reborn BLS Gateway of the Six Rekindling Gorz* (not really a bannable card to me, but it takes no skill and its just a BS card that the game doesnt need. Pretty much just a personal wish i guess) Limited: TGU Zenmaity Premature Burial Judgment Dragon Call (just for old times sake) Spirit Reaper Zenmaines Semi-Limited: Reborn Tengu Gravity Bind No Longer Limited: N/A I really really reaaallly wanna put zenmaines on the ban list, but I just cant bring myself to ban it. I dont like the card at all. All people gotta do is tour guide then xyz, which is BS. I dont think brio should be banned (even though it wins games), and i dont think goyo should EVER come back. Book should stay at one. I may be forgeting some cards now but this is pretty much my wish list/IMO logical list. All i know is i cant wait for the new list. I just kinda hope they dont change up the heavy/cold wave/trunade thing again. Im tired of it. Let us have one for two lists and then you can change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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