I Know There Are Some Terribad Gravekeepers, But Why Not Run [Gravekeeper's Spear Soldier]?

[.Rai]

What's been happening in this topic? ._.


[quote name='TheFinalFan' timestamp='1332782207' post='5889455']
Actually, I was thinking about running them together, with about half of my deck monsters instead of a third, but I have learned of how a proper Gravekeeper's Deck is run, and I understand.
Thank you all very much.
So, how many Rite of Spirits should I run, or is that also a bad Gravekeeper's card?
[/quote]

Rite of Spirits is bad, yes. Don't run it, yes.

Anyway, Gravekeeper's Spear Soldier is bad because it doesn't even pierce the [s]heavens,[/s] I mean, Zenmaines.

[Master Hyperion]

[quote name='Chris' timestamp='1332782111' post='5889452']
Also, I may not always explain things elaborately, but that's because I expect who I'm explaining it to to be able to actually think without me spelling everything out, is that such a bad thing? I don't think so. I may not have the highest expectations from YCM, but I at least expect something.
[/quote]

If a player is inexperience with a decktype, but really wants to play or know more about it, play testing is obviously top priority, but another posibility for making a deck better is communicating with other people who also constantly playtest various decks and have a calm discussion why they play various cards or techs over other cards, thus resulting into a better communication, and an overall better community. You can't expect if a new member joins in, they are immediatly a moderate player with 1 decktype. You'll need to do some actual argumenting why their deck are bad and why they are bad, and possible change the behavior of the player and have an influence on their playstyle, which can possible make the player better at this game.

And the reason I'm bringing this up because we do not need another terrible 5+ page long topic that consists nothing else than "LOL U BAD" being repeated over and over again, while the other player still has no clue why he's being insulted, and than if the user makes another topic or post of a decktype which he knows nothing about, the stupidity of both player's sides cycle will continue, while it could be easily prevented if you make a reply that only requires less than than 3 minutes to write. But since 90% ( lol made-up statics >___> ) of the playerbase have an inflated ego, can't think of their own, have an e-penis that need to constantly gets stroked or just dickride each other, its impossible that the YGO community will actually improve in this aspect and then continue to spiral into the depths of hell.

Topics like these really make me wish I was a mod.

[quote name='Chris' timestamp='1332782111' post='5889452']
Guard's good in the metagame because Laggia can't run over it and it can immediately remove it from the field.
[/quote]

Assuming that the "Laggia can't run over it" scenario is caused by the boost effect of Necrovalley, who the f*** attacks a face-down monster with their Laggia if the player that controls Laggia can blatantly tell their opponent plays GK?

[This Account is Unplayable]

You said all that as if I was just flat out saying he was bad.

I explained myself, then explained myself again when the short version didn't communicate to him fully. I'd rather you didn't try to indirectly accuse me of just flat out calling someone bad when I didn't.

Good theoy-oh says that if GK's run Guard, then that makes Laggia even more scared to attack. If it wasn't mained a lot Laggia wouldn't be scared of attacking, and theoretically would be fine 9 times out of 10. So maining Guard is somewhat a necessity if only because of the big picture. That and if you don't have that Guard, and the Laggia does attack, what do?

[Catterjune]

[quote name='Master Hyperion' timestamp='1332781948' post='5889447']
See YCM, it's not that hard to give an actual argument and prove someone wrong while making hime/her better at this game without having to turn into a monkey and throw your own droppings at the person.
[/quote]
This. Tone your egos down for one second and realize that some guy may not see it your way instead of derping it up with "[Card] exists" and "You're retarded."

On-topic: Spear Soldier is not so great, compared to the other, better gravekeepers that are worth running.

[Master Hyperion]

[quote name='Chris' timestamp='1332784816' post='5889492']
You said all that as if I was just flat out saying he was bad.

I explained myself, then explained myself again when the short version didn't communicate to him fully. I'd rather you didn't try to indirectly accuse me of just flat out calling someone bad when I didn't.
[/quote]

Like I said earlier, the problem in this is the communication. Obviously you (and other people) are trying to convince someone why various cards are better than others, but instead of turning it into The Guessing Game why "card A" is better than "card B", can you not simply flat-out explain why a card is better? Obviously you can say "card A" is better than "card B" and then the person will immediatly get it, but there are times that people who never played the deck are going to ask why "card A" is better than "card B", so some explanation is required.

And I wasn't accusing you, I was just talking about the subject in general, because it is a huge problem in the YGO community.

[quote name='Chris' timestamp='1332784816' post='5889492']
Good theoy-oh says that if GK's run Guard, then that makes Laggia even more scared to attack. If it wasn't mained a lot Laggia wouldn't be scared of attacking, and theoretically would be fine 9 times out of 10. So maining Guard is somewhat a necessity if only because of the big picture. That and if you don't have that Guard, and the Laggia does attack, what do?
[/quote]

laggia can't negate gk spy anyway because its SS effect is done by a monster effect so you can bring out Descedent anyway so yeah

Obviously its a good tech, but you shouldn't rely on it as its the only out against Laggia.

[This Account is Unplayable]

I still see nothing wrong with trying to get someone to actually think. One doesn't get good by simply doing what they're told.



Theoretically speaking, again, if you have Veiler or Fiendish Chain, you wouldn't hesitate attacking Spy, them getting Descendant, tribbing Spy only for you to Veiler it, or Fiendish Chain it, and you still have the possibility that it's not even a Spy, but a bluff. With Guard, though, you risk losing all your field presence when you attack.

[Master Hyperion]

[quote name='Chris' timestamp='1332787349' post='5889547']
I still see nothing wrong with trying to get someone to actually think. One doesn't get good by simply doing what they're told.
[/quote]

Obviously holding hands with the other people isn't a good idea, but that's why people actually playtest their deck on their own, so they can figure it out why people make those card choices in the first place, can actually practice with those card choices and even change it to their own play style, or even change their own play style completely.

[b]THIS[/b] is a way to make people think; To have people blatantly tell why a card is good is one way, but the key to improving a player is also to have them actually test those cards out on their own, so they can understand why people use those cards in actual practice and judge themselves why people say a card is good as they claim it to be. Playing "Guess Why Card A is better than Card B" or just donwright insult them is not a good way to make people think about specific card choices and it just leaves people wondering that have no idea why "Card A" is better than Card B", thus resulting not improving the player in the slightest and not changing their deck or play style.

[Lunar Origins]

Master Hyperion is such an angel. I love you for stating what I was going to write (before I saw your post).

Chris, you're an a******.

Shard, your posts make you look like you're riding dick.

Anyways, the thing about this card is that its effect really doesn't support the archetype. A low monster count is balanced by cards that grab. Half of your monsters are going to grab the others, what with Spy and Recruiter. You also have Descendant, who adds that destructive factor to the deck that they're lacking anyways. The low monster count allows for nice Royal Tribute plays, as you won't lose so much advantage when playing that. Combo that with Spy and Recruiter, and you can easily jump back into the game. Gravekeepers simply don't need Spear Soldier's piercing effect. And these days, when would it be used? Descendant would clear the field for you so you wouldn't need the little boost anyways, not to mention his ATK is the same and he triggers the effect of Recruiter.

[CommanderVolt]

Guard stopped aggro from OTKing me and allowed me to win next turn.

Pretty much what everyone's said about the card when compared to assailant and the actual use of the card.

Wasnt this one of the first cards to have built in piercing? Beside Mad Sword Beast?

[CDDRodrigo]

Mad Sword Beast came way before this though, like 8-10 months of difference if I remember correctly.

Also, Master Hyperion for most underrated member ever. I never saw better posts on the TCG section myself.

[Resident Fascist]

[quote name='Hanako Ikezawa' timestamp='1332879483' post='5891194']
Shard, your posts make you look like you're riding dick.
[/quote]

ITT: Agreeing with someone = Riding dick. I said it should be in the rules because they got rid of the "Don't be stupid" Rule which was great. Expecting a standard of player skill isn't wierd at all. I don't mind the question presented in this thread, but generally a member who frequents here should have a good understanding of the metagame right now. I shouldn't name names, but we know [i]some [/i]people here don't have a clue about Yugioh right now, and come out with some right drivel(Probably me included at some points). If we constantly waste our time explaining it to everyone, no good level of discussion will occur because we're saying the same thing all the time.

I don't profess to be the best player or a good player at all, infact I don't even play. Though, anyone can easily find about the meta by reading tournement results and reading up on what's winning tournements right now. Anyway, I once considered Spear Soldier when I was building GKs, considering at the time, I thought it was better than Assailant. Then I realised I was wrong mainly for the fact that Assailant can kill more things than Spear Soldier, and overall hold it's presence better than Spear Soldier. In a heavy defensive format, Spear Soldier and Assailant may be viable, but at the moment, Spear Soldier simply isn't and it takes up another Monster in your Deck.

[Lunar Origins]

The don't be stupid rule was utterly stupid in of itself.

How do you measure stupidity? You can't. This section teems with it anyways, what with the quality of posts, so the rule was never in effect as it was.

...aaaaand, on topic.

I actually never used Assailant, either. Even though he/she is good, the monster space really isn't worth it.

I remember Genex Gravekeepers to be a fun deck, but they were utterly slaughtered with the loss of Trishula.

[Resident Fascist]

[quote name='Hanako Ikezawa' timestamp='1332880426' post='5891219']
The don't be stupid rule was utterly stupid in of itself. How do you measure stupidity? You can't. This section teems with it anyways, what with the quality of posts. [/quote]

You have to understand that (most)people in this section like to stroke their E-Penis, and will do it in ways such as lording their Yugioh knowledge over others. Then again, why did I say the rule was good? It sucked. People still called you bad for no reason and didn't explain and you where bad because you was. The rule was idiotic, and imo it should be replaced with "Don't be a f***ing prick." Or something. I hate this damn section and I don't know why I post here anymore. Yea, I understand, the post quality here is awful. You're lucky to get any more than "LOL CARD/YOU/THING IS BAD/GOOD/TERRIBLE/USED TO BE GOOD LOLOLO" Out of 99% of TCG Posts. And yes, I'm guilty of this too. We need an advanced clause here ._.

[NumberCruncher]

[quote name='Order-Sol' timestamp='1332881156' post='5891256'] You have to understand that (most)people in this section like to stroke their E-Penis, and will do it in ways such as lording their Yugioh knowledge over others. Then again, why did I say the rule was good? It sucked. People still called you bad for no reason and didn't explain and you where bad because you was. The rule was idiotic, and imo it should be replaced with "Don't be a f***ing prick." Or something. I hate this damn section and I don't know why I post here anymore. Yea, I understand, the post quality here is awful. You're lucky to get any more than "LOL CARD/YOU/THING IS BAD/GOOD/TERRIBLE/USED TO BE GOOD LOLOLO" Out of 99% of TCG Posts. And yes, I'm guilty of this too. We need an advanced clause here ._. [/quote]

Does anyone else find it ironic Shard is complaining about people stroking their E-Penis on the TCG section? Also, we all know why you go on this section. You do it to complain about everything everyone else is doing.

As for the topic, I feel that if this card had maybe 1900 ATK instead of 1500, it might see play. But as it is, nearly all the Gravekeepers outclass it. I would run Visionary before I ran this.

[Resident Fascist]

[quote name='NumberCruncher' timestamp='1332881734' post='5891284']
Does anyone else find it ironic Shard is complaining about people stroking their E-Penis on the TCG section? Also, we all know why you go on this section. You do it to complain about everything everyone else is doing.
[/quote]

No, I don't. It's because I'm bored and I have nothing else to do. Besides, I'm pretty certian I havn't made an egotistical post for weeks. But think whatever you want. Haters are going to hate, and it's best to just ignore them. Anyway this topic sorta sucks so I'm leaving.

[Mugendramon]

Honestly, this section is filled with three groups of people.

"Good" players who post one-liners and look like the bad guys because they're so vague.

Other posters, who actually expand upon their points, provide arguments, or just plain argue.

And lurkers.

Introducing an advanced clause would discourage some from posting in threads at all, which would result in the rest not having anyone to argue with.

tl;dr an advanced clause would kill the section.

[This Account is Unplayable]

[quote name='Hanako Ikezawa' timestamp='1332879483' post='5891194']
Chris, you're an a******.
[/quote]

Explain.

If you're going to say that you were going to say how people should explain more, then practice what you preach. That should go for everything.

[Resident Fascist]

[quote name='Ｍｕｇｅｎｄｒａｍｏｎ' timestamp='1332882081' post='5891300']
Introducing an advanced clause would discourage some from posting in threads at all, which would result in the rest not having anyone to argue with.[/quote]

Same argument as what happened in RC. Look at RC, It's steadily improving. Quality is always better than Quantity. This area of the forum is a shithole to the point where people advice against you visiting here.

[This Account is Unplayable]

Wait, I'm good and I will explain myself if asked.

Although I agree almost every other member in TCG sucks.

[Miror B]

[quote name='Ｍｕｇｅｎｄｒａｍｏｎ' timestamp='1332882081' post='5891300']
Honestly, this section is filled with three groups of people.

"Good" players who post one-liners and look like the bad guys because they're so vague.

Other posters, who actually expand upon their points, provide arguments, or just plain argue.

And lurkers.

Introducing an advanced clause would discourage some from posting in threads at all, which would result in the rest not having anyone to argue with.

tl;dr an advanced clause would kill the section.
[/quote]
Section probably needs to die anyway. The good players are gods and do no wrong while the new players who don't know better are retards. Makes you wonder why so many people tell others not to go here.

[Resident Fascist]

[quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1332882826' post='5891336']
Section probably needs to die anyway. The good players are gods and do no wrong while the new players who don't know better are retards. Makes you wonder why so many people tell others not to go here.
[/quote]

Basicially, this is the unfortunate, sad truth.

[Mugendramon]

[quote name='Chris' timestamp='1332882593' post='5891324']
Wait, I'm good and I will explain myself if asked.[/quote]

Well, it's not the fact that you [i]can't [/i]explain yourself, more like you're not usually willing to do so, and some find it annoying.

I myself am perfectly fine with how this section goes, especially because I belong in the lurkers anyways.

[This Account is Unplayable]

Or if one has the ability to learn they actually get better, by figuring things out or asking questions.

As one who has experienced such a thing first hand, I can say that it works.

[quote name='Ｍｕｇｅｎｄｒａｍｏｎ' timestamp='1332882909' post='5891339']


Well, it's not the fact that you [i]can't [/i]explain yourself, more like you're not usually willing to do so, and some find it annoying.

I myself am perfectly fine with how this section goes, especially because I belong in the lurkers anyways.
[/quote]

I will still explain myself whenever I am asked to. I am perfectly willing to but I prefer to try and make people figure things out themselves first. Theory-oh is a major part in becoming a good player.

[Miror B]

[quote name='Chris' timestamp='1332882989' post='5891340']
Or if one has the ability to learn they actually get better, by figuring things out or asking questions.

As one who has experienced such a thing first hand, I can say that it works.
[/quote]
Topic creator asked a question.

You said "because".

That's like me asking why 2+3x4=14 and not 20, and then the person I asked said "because that's how it works"

[CommanderVolt]

Good People in TCG Section (from my observations while lurking.)

Evilfusion
Tristan
Rodrigo
Master Hyperion
Darkwolf
Aggro
metagross

There are a few others i want to include but im probably slacking with my observations and haven't read over any Good and Intresting posts they (may) have made. and i do admit there are some i wish not to include for reasons which i will keep to my self.

also, best discussion was between Tristian and Evilfusion on the topic of Acid Golem of Destruction.