Agro Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 [center][img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/8/80/HeavyStormDLG1-EN-R-UE.jpg[/img][b][size=8]KEEP THE [/size][/b][/center] [center][b][size=8]CONVERSATION [/size][/b][color=#ff0000][size=8][u][b]INTELLIGENT[/b][/u][/size][/color][/center] [center]I AM taking the side of banning Heavy, btw.[/center] [center]Discuss it and its implications, as well as what would be the implications of its absence.[/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Set Heavy Storm, it nets you pluses. OT: TBH, the game needs cards like this and Dark Hole, that can act as board wipes. I'd honestly rather have this than Trunade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 ^ Trunade's biggest problem was the fact that it could get around more things than Heavy Storm could making it better for setting up winning plays despite not actually netting any pluses by the strictest definition (in fact Trunade is a -1). With Heavy Storm gone, people will be able to play larger backrows without the threat of them getting wiped out by this and I'm sure players will take advantage of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 The problem with Trunade was that it promoted OTKs and couldn't be stopped by Starlight Road. Same as Cold Wave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bringerofcake Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Heavy being gone promotes "set 5 gg" mentalities (which, while uncommon, do already exist). I personally think that the backrow is less affected now by heavy than ever before. I say it should go to 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Judgment Dragon Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='Aggro' timestamp='1337669606' post='5944759'] The problem with Trunade was that it promoted OTKs and couldn't be stopped by Starlight Road. Same as Cold Wave. [/quote] I know. Hell. I'd be lying if I said I haven't won any games because of those 2 cards. [quote name='Bringerofcake' timestamp='1337669626' post='5944760'] Heavy being gone promotes "set 5 gg" mentalities (which, while uncommon, do already exist). I personally think that the backrow is less affected now by heavy than ever before. I say it should go to 2. [/quote] 2 I think would be too much. There's already 1 Heavy Storm and 3 MST which should be sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='Bringerofcake' timestamp='1337669626' post='5944760'] Heavy being gone promotes "set 5 gg" mentalities (which, while uncommon, do already exist). I personally think that the backrow is less affected now by heavy than ever before. I say it should go to 2. [/quote]Then no one runs Trap Cards. That should not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 This @0: Set 5 gg formats, and everyone runs 6 cards dedicated to backrow removal and the format just becomes dumb and inconsistent. This @1: Players play smart to bait out Heavy Storms as quick as possible and have to think to conserve it for later or when it's absolutely necessary, while also not playing too many backrows of their own unless they want to bluff Starlight/Solemn or if they have them, It's a very healthy card for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 The game is not really that much better without heavy,without heavy ONE player has to jump hoops to do anything while the OTHER player might as well sit back in an easy chair with his backrow. This is no different from the same imbalanced free advantage cards right now like zekts except with different cards and backrow instead of monsters giving the free advantage,it's just "Same ****,different cards". The difference is that with heavy both players have an equal chance to suddenly have to jump through hoops to keep playing and maybe if both players play smart while it is legal neither of them have to,but without it it's only whoever goes second who has to jump through these hoops. To keep heavy in the game in a balanced way you would have to hit the monsters,but would retain the no overextending policy. To do away with heavy in the game in a balanced way you would have to hit the strong backrow,but would lose the no overextending policy. There are ways to make heavy fine at 0 in a balanced way,but is it worth losing the no overextending mentality? Is it worth making people think less about how to play their stuff even if they ARE playing balanced things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKPLANT RISING Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 I consider Heavy Storm one of those necesarry evils. Just its existance is enough to make you think twice before setting 3 or more backrows. Sure, it's game-breaking, and it's OTK fuel, but it's necesarry to stop the game from becoming the set-5-gg everyone above mentioned. On a completely separate note, the best solution is to ban it and release: Medium Storm Normal Spell Destroy all Spell/Trap cards on the field. You cannot conduct a Special Summon this turn. And put it at 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Konami has like 10 Heavy Storm substitutes and they all suck. I would gladly accept one that isn't used as an OTK device in which the mentality can remain without being OP'ed. But since we don't have anything like that, we can't go around banning every deck that needs to clear backrows in order to push for game, that just will not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKaitoKid Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 I think Heavy is fine @1. Just like Dark Hole it's needed cause it can get you out of a bind. Not to mention I [like most of everyone here] was here during the no-heavy-1-mst format and you were in some serious trouble if you didn't draw into your Trunade/Dust Tornado's. Heavy is, like someone above mentioned, a necessary evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Crouton Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 I'm on the side that it's good for promoting more intelligent gameplay. Getting rid of it says it's not bad to set your entire hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1337693322' post='5944856'] one that isn't used as an OTK device-[/quote] Isn't that like the point of Heavy Storm about 50% of the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 I am completely on the fence about this card. I feel as if -this- format would be better without it, but as a whole? Set 5 gg formats are absolutely terrible and, as Chris said, banning this would just make a lot of decks less consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='Nightmare Zarkus' timestamp='1337715691' post='5945005'] I am completely on the fence about this card. I feel as if -this- format would be better without it, but as a whole? Set 5 gg formats are absolutely terrible and, as Chris said, banning this would just make a lot of decks less consistent. [/quote] The format would not really be better,it would be the same **** as now with different cards: One player has to sit back in an easy chair while the other jumps through hoops. At least with heavy both players have an equal chance to **** each other up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 It needs a more balanced version of itself that punishes over-extension without promoting OTKs, like the example that was given above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='Aggro' timestamp='1337720600' post='5945046'] It needs a more balanced version of itself that punishes over-extension without promoting OTKs, like the example that was given above. [/quote] tbh,i think the problem is the cards that let you put 8000 damage on the board in the one turn your opponent was left open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Radiation Storm Activate while there are 3 or more Spell and Trap Cards on the field. Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azuh Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - ä¿¡ä»°' timestamp='1337725337' post='5945085'] Radiation Storm Activate while there are 3 or more Spell and Trap Cards on the field. Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field ? [/quote] Won't be played cause then your opponent won't set more than 2 cards to try counter this card... ZOMG INFINITE LOOPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 [quote name='Azuh' timestamp='1337730480' post='5945126'] Won't be played cause then your opponent won't set more than 2 cards to try counter this card... ZOMG INFINITE LOOPS [/quote] Set Radiation Storm and then activate it because there will be three or more spells and traps on the field? When it comes to a Heavy Storm replacement, I was thinking: Heavy Hurricane Normal Spell Discard 1 card; Destroy all spells and traps on the field. You cannot Special Summon during the turn you activate this card. Now you don't get a profit unless the opponent had 3 more S/T set than you did, and you can't spam for 8000 for game the very same turn. Its design is solely to stop overextension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Darkplant's idea was already fine, it took what was bad about Heavy Storm and made it balanced. We [i]want[/i] the replacement to be limited, so the format doesn't lose [i]all[/i] of the backrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 It should stay just where it is. I don't know about you, but I don't feel like having to face a field of face-downs and have no effective way to get around them while my opponent stops my every play. I like the fact that Heavy Storm encourages skillful play because you have to think about your moves before you make them, otherwise you risk losing a bunch of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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