Oh the Choices!

[Canadian]

[b][u]Introduction[/u]: [/b]Unlike previous formats, Konami has several ways to fix the game with this upcoming Banlist ! By that I mean, if they address the following issues "1-8" (which is a general consensus on everybody's banlist predictions that they are), then for this Banlist they have choices on how to go about hitting problem cards and said issues.

[b][u]Thread Rules[/u][/b][b]:[/b] For each of the following card pairings, you are to choose one [b][u]OR[/u][/b] the other card in which you want to hit (if you absolutely feel like both need a banlist change, then thoroughly explain yourself, otherwise, please try to just pick one of the two please).

Posts that deal with the pairings are to follow the same format:

[b]<[/b]Name of Pairing[b]>
<[/b]Card and Banlist Change[b]> - <[/b]Reasonings[b]>[/b]

Standard comments need [u][b]not[/b][/u]follow the format.

You are [b][u]NOT[/u][/b] to argue against somebody's opinion, you are to simply post your own thoughts and preferences for each of the pairings.

[b][u]The Pairings[/u]:[/b]

[b]1. Future Fusion vs Five-Headed Dragon[/b]
[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120224011645/yugioh/images/thumb/1/12/FutureFusion-RYMP-EN-UR-1E.jpg/300px-FutureFusion-RYMP-EN-UR-1E.jpg[/img][img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110930172610/yugioh/images/thumb/0/0a/FiveHeadedDragon-GLD4-EN-GUR-LE.png/300px-FiveHeadedDragon-GLD4-EN-GUR-LE.png[/img]

[b]2. Tour Guide From the Underworld vs Sangan[/b]
[img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120531135837/yugioh/images/thumb/9/96/TourGuideFromtheUnderworld-BP01-EN-R-1E.png/300px-TourGuideFromtheUnderworld-BP01-EN-R-1E.png[/img][img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120420230315/yugioh/images/thumb/e/e8/Sangan-YS12-EN-C-1E.png/300px-Sangan-YS12-EN-C-1E.png[/img]

[b]3. Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity vs Wind-Up Hunter[/b]
[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120414005222/yugioh/images/thumb/7/7c/WindUpCarrierZenmaity-ORCS-EN-UR-1E.jpg/300px-WindUpCarrierZenmaity-ORCS-EN-UR-1E.jpg[/img][img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111105175908/yugioh/images/thumb/6/68/WindUpHunter-PHSW-EN-SR-1E.jpg/300px-WindUpHunter-PHSW-EN-SR-1E.jpg[/img]

[b]4. Inzektor Dragonfly vs Inzektor Centipede[/b]
[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120203223928/yugioh/images/thumb/0/08/InzektorDragonfly-ORCS-EN-R-1E.jpg/300px-InzektorDragonfly-ORCS-EN-R-1E.jpg[/img][img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120330213037/yugioh/images/thumb/d/d6/InzektorCentipede-ORCS-EN-C-UE.png/300px-InzektorCentipede-ORCS-EN-C-UE.png[/img]

[b]5. Hieratic Dragon King of Atum vs Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon[/b]
[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120429211748/yugioh/images/thumb/8/81/HieraticDragonKingofAtum-GAOV-EN-SR-1E.png/300px-HieraticDragonKingofAtum-GAOV-EN-SR-1E.png[/img][img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120207083030/yugioh/images/thumb/1/16/RedEyesDarknessMetalDragon-SDDC-EN-C-1E.jpg/300px-RedEyesDarknessMetalDragon-SDDC-EN-C-1E.jpg[/img]

[b]6. Rescue Rabbit vs Evolzar Laggia[/b]
[img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111108030134/yugioh/images/thumb/1/18/RescueRabbit-PHSW-EN-ScR-1E.jpg/300px-RescueRabbit-PHSW-EN-ScR-1E.jpg[/img][img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111109201213/yugioh/images/thumb/f/fd/EvolzarLaggiaPHSW-EN-UR-1E.jpg/300px-EvolzarLaggiaPHSW-EN-UR-1E.jpg[/img]

[b]7. Mystical Space Typhoon vs Heavy Storm[/b]
[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120607014657/yugioh/images/thumb/0/09/MysticalSpaceTyphoon-GLD5-EN-GGR-LE.jpg/300px-MysticalSpaceTyphoon-GLD5-EN-GGR-LE.jpg[/img][img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120616113639/yugioh/images/thumb/d/df/HeavyStorm-BP01-EN-R-1E.png/300px-HeavyStorm-BP01-EN-R-1E.png[/img]

[b]8. One Day of Peace vs Final Countdown[/b]
[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120720032849/yugioh/images/thumb/1/17/OneDayofPeace-PHSW-EN-C-1E.png/300px-OneDayofPeace-PHSW-EN-C-1E.png[/img][img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090206190249/yugioh/images/thumb/4/46/FinalCountdown-CP01-EN-C-UE.jpg/300px-FinalCountdown-CP01-EN-C-UE.jpg[/img]

[b][u]Disclaimer[/u]:[/b] l would like to say some things before we get this rolling. First, I chose to only post cards in which there are multiple ways to deal with issues, so cards like Card Destruction, Black Luster Soldier, Monster Reborn, ect.. are not on the list here.

If you feel like a pairing is missing or should be up there (examples: BLS vs DMoC or Stratos vs Miracle Fusion/Super-Poly) then let me know and I may add it.

If you feel like a pairing should be changed (example: Rescue Rabbit vs Leviair or Inzektor Dragonfly vs Hornet), please also let me know or simply add your thoughts in the reasoning section of your post

[b][u]My Choices[/u][/b][b]:[/b]

[spoiler=The best ones (:]

[b][font=Arial][size=2]1. Future Fusion vs Five-Headed Dragon[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Ban Future Fusion[/b] - Future Fusion is the problem card here. The only difference between the two is that banning Five-Headed Dragon stops Future Fusion only in Chaos Dragons. The card is going to be incredibly powerful if left unbanned next format thanks to the Omni-Hero Escuidao being released. Zephyrus OTK`s all day. Besides, even outside of competitive decks, the card serves no purpose other then OTK'ing with the likes of Chimeratech or setting up the Graveyard for several situational and devastating plays.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]2. Tour Guide From the Underworld vs Sangan[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Limit TGU[/b] - For me, I don't have a problem with Sangan's searching, but I do have a problem with incredibly powerful Rank 3 toolbox engine. Should Sangan be banned, it would simply be replaced with Dark Mimic, Tour Bus, or most likely Night Assailant to act as a stand alone card in case you drew it. Although not nearly as powerful as Sangan, it doesn't stop the power of the TGU engine which is where the problem lies. If TGU is Semi-Limited (which I know alot of people are prediciting) then we still have TGU > TGU in any point of the duel and can still play Sangan as a one of because it is decent on its own. What limiting TGU does is make it a one-time explosive play. In order to play it, you would have to put it in certain decks which can capitalize on Level 3 fiends so that it wont dead draw unwanted cards like Tour Bus or make a lategame drawn TGU dead. Now every deck won't be able to have a 1 card Rank 3 unless it wants to be very inconsistent.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]3. Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity vs Wind-Up Hunter[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Ban Hunter and Semi-Limit Zenmaity[/b] - I'd rather have the deck still be playable after dealing with the hand loop. What trying to keep Hunter at 1 does is kill the deck's toolbox ability. 1 Zenmaity doesn't really do much for the deck and all to keep around a random +0 doesn't help either. 3 Zenmaity could also be an issue and I would opt for a semi-limiting for Zenmaity as well as banning Hunter. 1 Zenmaity kills the deck and 3 Zenmaity isn't exactly fair either. There is a lot of OTK potential with 3 Zenmaity but putting Zenmaity at 2 would keep this to a minimum while still acting as a good toolbox. And if you flood your field with 2 Zenmaity and your opponent can only manage to hit one on their turn, you can't simply continue through with the spamming and finish them off.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]4. Inzektor Dragonfly vs Inzektor Centipede[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Limit Dragonfly[/b] - If I could, I would ban Hornet and kill the deck entirely as it is bad for the game since it punishes you for playing cards. Unfortunately, this will not happen in September so the options we are left with are killing the deck's consistency. Any by consistency I mean the devastating play where they blow-up everything you have and win. Since the card responsible for this is Dragonfly, why not hit that card upright instead of hitting the searcher. This is probably the most forced of my decisions thanks to Konami-logic, but it makes more sense to me then hitting Centipede.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]5. Hieratic Dragon King of Atum vs Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Ban REDMD [/b]- Even having REDMD at 1 allows Lightpulsar Dragon to loop with it. Atum isn't much of a problem as REDMD is IMO and besides, Atum only searches for REDMD anyways. With Gustav Max coming out Konami might do something silly like Semi-limiting REDMD to push people to buy the card but it is simply too powerful of a card with REDMD so I hope to god they wont do this.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]6. Rescue Rabbit vs Evolzar Laggia[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Semi-Limit Rescue Rabbit[/b] - Laggia is not the problem (unlike Shi-En where you can open with multiples Turn 1). It is a good boss for Evols and should not be punished for the overpowered enabler. Rabbit at 1 completely kills Dino Rabbits however and I've already limited TGU so there will not be much of Leviar's shenanigans to deal with. Rabbit to 2 lowers the consistency while still making the deck worth it to play 6 Vanillas in order to draw into 2 of the fluffy bunnies.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]7. Mystical Space Typhoon vs Heavy Storm[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Limit MST[/b] - I am tired of setting one only to get instantly blown out by and MST then get s*** on. At the same time I don't want to set 2 or more and lose advantage from an opened Heavy Storm. Usually in todays meta, losing advantage from a first turn Heavy Storm is a game sealer, especially with Inzektors, Dragons, and Wind-Ups all dancing around. With MST at 1, trap heavier decks could have a good chance as well a Dust Tornado making a comeback. Really healthy choice for the game.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]8. One Day of Peace vs Final Countdown[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Ban Final Countdown[/b] - If I have the choice to get rid of alternate win condition decks that play mostly like a solitaire game or slow them all down, I'd just flat out ban these kinds of decks. So the choice between these two was obvious. However, since One Day of Peace can also support Exodia decks amongst others, I would say it should be limited as well, but if I could have the choice, I would just get rid of the decks instead. Until solitaire decks start becoming big issues (just wait for konami to print one more +0 spell card), One Day will probably stay at 3 and won't exactly do much until the decks become problems even though they are bad for the game.[/spoiler]

[Just Crouton]

Okie-dokie.

[b]Future Fusion vs Five-Headed Dragon[/b]
Future Fusion (Banned) - Made Fusions like FGD look like the problem card.

[b]Tour Guide From the Underworld vs Sangan[/b]
On the fence. Limiting Tour Guide makes it useless, but banning Sangan would restrict Tour Guide to Fiend decks.

[b]Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity vs Wind-Up Hunter[/b]
Don't know enough about Wind-Ups to form an opinion.

[b]Inzektor Dragonfly vs Inzektor Centipede[/b]
Centipede (Limited) - Searches the Dragonfly to initiate the combo again.

[b]Hieratic Dragon King of Atum vs Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon[/b]
On the fence. Atum gets the REDMD, then becomes Thunder Charger, while REDMD gets more big monsters.

[b]Rescue Rabbit vs Evolzar Laggia[/b]
Rabbit (Limited/Banned) - Makes the Laggia easily accessible.

[b]Mystical Space Typhoon vs Heavy Storm[/b]
MST (Limited) - At 3, along with the Heavy, makes many backrow cards that stay around useless. Putting it to 2 wouldn't matter because it looks like people already run 2.

[b]One Day of Peace vs Final Countdown[/b]
Final Countdown (Banned) - Instant win cards are bad design.

[Blake]

1. FuFu. There are cards other than FGD that abuse the hell out of FuFu, and you can't hit every single card. Gem-Knights can abuse it with basically any of their Fusions. HEROes are still incredibly generic, so it can still abuse. And the list goes on.
2. TGU to 1, the argument of "Fiend Deck only" is absurd, as nothing deserves a Normal Summon-able Xyz that dumps/grabs cards you want. Sangan is innocent @1.
3. Hunter to 0, Boat to 1/2. Boat does NOT deserve to be free, and Hunter is loop only.
4. I'm just gonna say Hornet, in hopes that it will, indeed, be the one to go.
5. REDRUM, though Atum's not exactly innocent, and neither is Gaia Dragon. While at it, Hieratic Seal of Convocation as well. You know what, hit ALL the cards abused by Hieratics, they're just a pile of horrid design.
6. Rabbit has abuse without the Zars. The Zars do not have Abuse without Rabbit.
7. MST/Heavy: Neither should go. MST going just means Dust Tornado or w/e could fill the extra spot(s), and Storm going is horrible. Besides, they're not a great big problem.
8. Alt wins, clearly. One Day is innocent if not for them. Well, for now at least...

[This Account is Unplayable]

FuFu to 0
TGU to 1
Hunter to 0. Possible Boat hit anyway.
Hornet is the problem card.
REDMD to 0.
Rabbit to 1.
Neither MST nor Heavy should be hit.
Final Countdown (and by extent Exodia) to 0.

I cbf saying the exact same things I've been saying for months just to satisfy the explanatory part of it. Personally I think all of them are pretty self-explanatory anyway.

Oh and Stratos vs Miracle should be a topic of debate. Personally think Stratos should be the one to go. It allows for the silly combos the deck produces and is always a +1 or greater on summon.

[Cherz]

[u][b]Future fusion vs 5 headed[/b] [/u]
FuFu needs the ban here. 5 headed is realy only used todump the dragons, 5 headed is so easy to push over.

[b][u]Tour guid from the underworld vs Sangan[/u][/b]
I personally dont know why Mangan should get the hit here. It is a searcher, but unlike tour guid, it doesnt so into xyz on a daily basis. IMO, Tour guid is worse than Mangan. That, and tour guid normally searches Mangan. Tour Guide go to 1~

[b][u]Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity vs Wind-Up Hunter[/u][/b]
Oh boy, here it comes. On the topic of hunter, it leaves you in top decking mode instantly! But, without The carrier, it is bad on its own. I personally think the carrier should get the limit hammer. No hand loop is good. It is stupid the combos that can be pulled with carrier. I would have to hit carrier, so hunter would be balanced.

[u][b]Inzektor Dragonfly vs Inzektor Centipede[/b][/u]
Well, one specials from deck, the other searches ANY card. Centipede is the normal dragonfly target, and it can search any inzektor. I would but him at 1, so dragonfly has alot less targets worth while. I think dragonfly is pretty bad too, but in the end centepede makes fly broken.

[u][b]Hieratic Dragon King of Atum vs Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon[/b][/u]
I see Atum and REDMD. It pulls REDMD who goes into big monsters and then into thunder charger. It is so easy is pull off Atum. It is an easy advantage, and can be pulled out like, lol lightpulsar! It isnt good to go so crazy with that combo. But, REDMD is bad as well. It just pulls big dragons from grave or hand. lol, get over this. They both need a limit.

[u][b]Rescue Rabbit vs Evolzar Laggia[/b][/u]
I say semi the bunny. It isnt that bad, since it forces you into useing vanillas. IMO laggia is the boss of evols, and should not be hit since a bunny is going wild.

[u][b]Mystical Space Typhoon vs Heavy Storm[/b][/u]
Mst and heavy... Mst needs to go back to a limit. Any card you set just gets blown away. I cant stand setting a card and losing it instantly. Heavy leaves both fields squeaky, and it sucks when you have a good defence.

[u][b]One Day of Peace vs Final Countdown[/b][/u]
Both are bad designes. One day promotes alt win conditions, but final count down is alot worse. It can only be stopped with counters, and that isnt good. If you just stall for 20 turns, gg. Final count down needs the ban. One day can see another ban list.

Im so bad at this game So, that covers my choices.

[Sleepy]

[b]Rescue Rabbit vs Evolzar Laggia[/b]
Limit Rabbit. Rabbit has a lot of potential for fun Decks that can use vanillas, but it's main problem is Dino-Rabbit. If it's at 1, it should make it too inconsistent to base a whole Deck around it, while allowing the card to be casually used.

[b]Future Fusion vs Five-Headed Dragon[/b]
Ban Future Fusion. Five-Headed Dragon is just a heavy beatstick in which the best you can do with it is Summon it with Dragon's Mirror once Future Fusion is out. Not to mention it's only purpose really is to make Future Fusion into a huge searching tool.
In the other hand, Future Fusion has always been prone to forming OTKs. Be it with Jinzo, Chimeratech, Dragons, etc. It's almost as bad as Painful Choice.

[b]One Day of Peace vs Final Countdown[/b]
Ban Final Countdown. It's effect is the whole reason there are people willing to make a Deck about nothing but stalling with no other clear goal. It is clearly the best hit out of the two.
but ideally speaking, this game shouldn't even have this type of stalling cards to begin with. The era in which negating just 1 damage is no longer enough to make the player feel like he/she will survive that turn, is just ridiculous.

[b]Mystical Space Typhoon vs Heavy Storm[/b]
Heavy, I used to opt for banning it, and I still think it's a bit too much to punish the use of Continuous/Equip/Field Spell/Trap Cards and Union Monsters for doing what they are supposed to do, but at the same time, the vast majority of Decks that don't use said cards to a big enough extent (if at all), just looses the insentive to not mindlessly set everything, so, it's a necessary evil, I guess.
Mystical is a fair one for one removal. If you consider it to be too bothersome, I'd say get it down to 2, if anything. Not sure it's a limit-worthy card, and in my personal opinion, general destroyers like Hornet are what's REALLY putting the current hate in Spell/Traps, not MST and Heavy as much. Maybe it's the fact that it's the convination of both things, but I'd rather get rid of the surplus of general destruction that can potentially be abused in it's Deck.

[Wildflame]

Well, this looks like fun, let's give it a try.

1- Hit neither. Refer to 5 for explanation.

2- Semi TGU and ban Sangan. With this TGU is still usable but not nearly as abusable as before. Sangan has been in the scene for way too long.

3- Ban Hunter. Loop goes away, Wind-Ups keeps existing as a deck. Shame that nobody would use them anymore.

4- Keep those 2 at 3 but ban Hornet. Inzektors suddenly become more skillfull and less bulls**t. Limiting Dragonfly would hurt the deck more.

5- Ban REDMD. Neither Hieratics nor Chaos Dragon would be such a mess without this guy. FuFu, FGD and Atum can stay just as they are now.

6- Semi Rabbit. Limit it if Sangan doesn't get banned. Laggia can be useful for other decks that aren't Rabbit.

7- Limit MST. A 1 Heavy 1 MST format sounds really good to me, I think it's the ideal choice.

8- Countdown goes to 2/stays at 3 and limit One Day of Peace (although I don't really see that happening). I really don't like killing deck types, and I think that alt. win conditions (I probably can also fit burn in here) are not bad for the game, since they somehow help to break the monotony of the usual spamspamspam or controlcontrolcontrol playing style, depending on the format. They have to be there, they just need to be not so powerful, and I think that One Day was the card that gave Exodia and Countdown decks the consistency to seriously become a threat. It isn't played in any other kinds of deck, so no one else will really miss it.

And ban BLS.

[Agro]

So are threads not meant for discussion actually allowed in TCG? If that's the case, can I also ask Hatcher to move it to Polls instead of locking it.

HELL, there should be a poll instead of posts. But I digress.

[b]FuFu to 0. [/b]Though I doubt anyone runs it without REDMD anyway.
[b]TGU to 1 or 2[/b], but honestly, Sangan should be at 0 anyway.
[b]Hunter to 0[/b], and if after the rest, if Wind-Ups look too good, then Zenmaighty as well. If Wind-Ups look like they won't be top tier, then they may as well leave it for now.
[b]Hornet, WTF are you doing. [/b]Though this is Konami, so a hit on Centipede wouldn't surprise me, they have been doing that. Oh, and I should remind everyone that limiting Dragonfly does NOTHING to stop the loop.
[b]REDMD to 0[/b]. Even if it hurts to say it, it does have to go. If Dragunity break too far with Atum though, then expect it to get hit next format.
[b]Rabbit to 1. [/b]Anyone who says otherwise is either an idiot or has blood on their hands already.
[b]Neither. [/b]But if they'll release a Heavy Storm replacement that doesn't allow attacking or Special summoning that turn, then be my guest to ban that.
[b]Final Countdown and Exodia to 0. [/b]Let's not discuss this again.

Oh, might I ask about when we should be getting leaks about the banlist? Can't wait for that completely obnoxious set of fake banlists.

[Tiger Tracks]

[background=rgb(251, 253, 254)][spoiler=][/background]
[b]Future Fusion vs Five-Headed Dragon[/b]
[size=2]Ban Future Fusion: There is quite a bit of nuance in this discussion that I feel is being overlooked, but since the decision is just about FuFu vs. FHD I'll choose Future Fusion. [color=#5A5A5A][background=rgb(251, 253, 254)]The biggest problems people have with FuFu is, in the end, the monsters that are sent to the graveyard by Future Fusion. Since monsters with poorly [/background][/color][color=#5A5A5A][background=rgb(251, 253, 254)]designed[/background][/color][color=#5A5A5A][background=rgb(251, 253, 254)] graveyard activation effects that are used with FuFu like Zephyros, PSZ, Quillbolt, Jinzo Returner, and other fun things that can actually cause problems are still able to run around, I guess its the best choice. Mind you if this were FuFu vs any monster with large numbers of fusion materials I would be more inclined to keep FuFu.[/background][/color][/size]

[b]Tour Guide From the Underworld vs Sangan[/b]
Limit Tour Guide: One cards Xyzs are the problem. At two it still serves as an instant Xyz for every deck that wants to run i while at one it'll take some serious deck dedication to do any work - which is fine. Sangan is a suspiciously good tutor but I believe in almost all situations the card Sangan is looking for is the more bannable card.

[b]Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity vs Wind-Up Hunter[/b]
[font="tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#5a5a5a"][size=2]Hit Zenmaity: A generic, omnipresent, field-swarming monster that inadvertently caused the WU Loop is the problem. Wind-Up Hunter is just a shitty monster without Maity to give it ammunition. [/size][/color][/font]
[font="tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#5a5a5a"][size=2] [/size][/color][/font]
[b]Inzektor Dragonfly vs Inzektor Centipede[/b]
[font="tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#5a5a5a"][size=2]Neither: I'm not too familliar with Inzectors: No one plays them at locals and I never see them on DN. My biggest problem with them is how meta-centralizing Hornet is. They seem to be losing favor in competitive play but Hornet still is an influence in deck building. I don't know if Inzectors would still be able to gain an unbearable amount of advantage without Hornet or beable to OTK still though as I'm not familiar with their combos. It's entirely possible more than one thin may need to be banned.[/size][/color][/font]

[b]Hieratic Dragon King of Atum vs Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon[/b]
[font="tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#5a5a5a"][size=2]Ban REDMD: Both are problems. Atum has all of the flaws that Maity does but is beatstick to boot. REDMD is a Monster Reborn every turn whose sole job is to amass attack points and beat face. I'd like to see both be hit but REDMD needs to go the most, in my opinion.[/size][/color][/font]

[b]Rescue Rabbit vs Evolzar Laggia[/b]
[font="tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#5a5a5a"][size=2]Limit Rescue Rabbit: Rescue Rabbit is a one card Xyz Engine - the same problem as TGU. My reasons for wanting it at one are also pretty much the same. It's still usable and a fairly consistant problem maker at two but at one it needs serious deck dedication. It's possible that Laggia needs to be hit too, but that is not a decision I can make in confidence as long as one card Xyz are around.[/size][/color][/font]

[b]Mystical Space Typhoon vs Heavy Storm[/b]
[font="tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#5a5a5a"][size=2]Ban Heavy but you're boned either way: We have Night Shot now so even if MST was limited if an OTK deck wanted to OTK it would. The last Heavy-less format felt awful but I'd rather spend the game pushing through backrow than crossing-fingers and hoping I don't get OTKd. This is my personal opinion and feel there is no objective best choice (with what I've heard so far at least)[/size][/color][/font]

[b]One Day of Peace vs Final Countdown[/b]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=2][background=rgb(251, 253, 254)]Ban Final Countdown: Any deck that ODoP is played in that people complain about are decks with no player interactions. Ban the decks that don't promote player interaction. Problem solved.[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[/spoiler]

[TerrorKingA]

[b][font=Arial][size=2]1. Future Fusion vs Five-Headed Dragon[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Neither: [/b]The main meta-relevant Deck that can make use of Future Fusion is Chaos Dragons. As multiple YCSs have shown, most Decks don't even run it. The Lightsworn engine do Future Fusion's job arguably better than it. Without Future Fusion, Five-Headed Dragon is as useless as its always been. While I do think Future Fusion is a problem card, there are far worse problems to be addressed at the moment. If this choice was to be humored, however, Future Fusion would be the obvious hit since other Decks can abuse it as well (Chimeratech Overdragon immediately comes to mind).

[b][font=Arial][size=2]2. Tour Guide From the Underworld vs Sangan[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Limit TGU[/b]: This isn't even a choice, really. TGU is bad card design incarnate: generating an Xyz summon at the cost of a simple Normal Summon. Sangan should be substituted for Zenmaines, as that is generally the most troublesome card Tour Guide makes. But even then, this still wouldn't be a tough choice to make.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]3. Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity vs Wind-Up Hunter[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Ban Hunter[/b]: Wind-Ups operate well enough without Hunter. They can make Rank 5s out the wazoo without losing much card advantage, and that's in part due to Zenmighty. Zenmighty doesn't deserve any form of hit without Hunter being legal.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]4. Inzektor Dragonfly vs Inzektor Centipede[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Neither: [/b]Dragonfly is similar to Zenmighty in that it helps mitigate the Deck's loss of card advantage, and allows for Xyz options. Centipede gives the Deck a search card, and that is an invaluable tool for a Type that has no generic searchers. The real choice should've been between Hornet and Dragonfly. Hornet is free removal and punishes your opponent just for playing the game, while triggering Dragonfly and Centipede's effects in the process. If Hornet were banned, the Deck wouldn't become unplayable since they have Hopper and Ladybug to fall back on.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]5. Hieratic Dragon King of Atum vs Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Limit Dr. Red: [/b]Banning Dr. Red unfairly kills every single Dragon Deck out there. Limiting it doesn't de-fang the dragons, but it stops Gustav Max and herp derp spamming. Atum doesn't even belong here.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]6. Rescue Rabbit vs Evolzar Laggia[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Ban Rescue Rabbit:[/b] Rescue Rabbit is a problem that needs to be addressed. An instant +1 that also serves to thin the Deck, and then can be easily brought back to the field by Leviair for more shenanigans. No, Laggia doesn't belong here since he isn't a problem. If you ban Laggia, that just opens the door for other Rabbit Decks like Evilswarm Rabbit.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]7. Mystical Space Typhoon vs Heavy Storm[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Limit MST: [/b]Heavy Storm is a necessary evil that stops the proverbial "set 5, end" move. When Heavy was banned, Gravekeepers and Six Samurai dominated with their backrow that said "lolnope" to whatever the opponent did. It was the ultimate dice-roll format where whoever went first generally won. The fear of Heavy Storm keeps people from setting their entire hand. Limiting MST is the best way to go since Night Beam now exists, which is arguably as good as MST but with a drawback that means some Decks can get around it.

[b][font=Arial][size=2]8. One Day of Peace vs Final Countdown[/size][/font][/b]
[b]Neither: [/b]Alt. win conditions are a good thing, so Final Countdown should stay where it is. One Day of Peace is laughable at the moment. Just as with Future Fusion (which is in and of itself an unfair comparison), better cards need to be hit first.

[ranma1/2]

well, i can't really explain why that well... but i'm pretty sure you'd understand by what others on here say (the ones that pick the same cards as i did)

everything to be banned/limited/semi'd:
future fusion (at 0)
tour guide (at 1)
carrier zenmaity (at 1)
dragonfly (at 1)
red-eyes (at 1/0)
rabbit (at 1)
storm (at 0, trunade comes back? O.o)
final countdown (at 0, because it's a cheap win that's easy to do these days)

[Citrine Serpent]

Most of these are obvious and half a dozen stated what needs to be hit and why, so I'll try to explain why certain changes shouldn't happen where applicable.

[u][b]Future fusion vs 5 headed[/b] [/u]
Hitting FuFu solves all problems. "It's necessary fusion support" is an incredibly weak argument, as heroes and gem-knights, the last true fusion decks don't need fufu at all. Hitting FGD solves the obvious problem without addressing the peripheral problems.

[b][u]Tour Guide from the Underworld vs Sangan[/u][/b]
Hitting sangan without touching guide does nothing. His effect isn't the problem and doesn't even when the critter is overlaid. If he goes, he'll be replaced with bus and tgu will proceed a little slower. Honestly this should have been leviair vs tgu. Tgu to 1 solves all problems.

[b][u]Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity vs Wind-Up Hunter[/u][/b]
Ok, this is the one that's a little out of my expertise, but I know hitting hunter w/o carrier doesn't solve the spam problem. I don't know how many cards hunter can discard with carrier at 1, but that limit looks to be the best bet. Without looping ability, some of your hand is safe, and your opponent's success revolves around discarding the best 2 cards from your hand. Pretty inconsistent, but correct me if this is too sacky.

[u][b]Inzektor Dragonfly vs Inzektor Centipede[/b][/u]
Neither is needed. Hornet is what is preventing your cards from lasting 2 turns on the field, and the one that needs to be hit. You could put dragonfly at 0 if you wanted to kill a deck that is capable of existing without issue without its problem card.

[u][b]Hieratic Dragon King of Atum vs Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon[/b][/u]
Aren't both problems? Atum is an otk engine assisted by REDMD, while REDMD himself is rediculous with lightpulsar. Both to 0 solves everything. Also, with Atum at 0 you cant revolve an extra deck around abusing thunder charger

[u][b]Rescue Rabbit vs Evolzar Laggia[/b][/u]
This is almost the exact same situation as fufu and FGD. Without laggia, rabbit still has dolkka, and halfway through the format. Rabbit needs to be hit. At one, (with appropriate restriction to tgu) you can't build a consistent deck around it. It shouldn't be a problem, but if it is, it can go to 0 in march.

[u][b]Mystical Space Typhoon vs Heavy Storm[/b][/u]
Why? As much as I'd like to see what one typhoon of several years ago is like in today's game state, it's not necessary ._.

EDIT: tbh I didn't read anyone's list before posting mine, and for the most part they were predictably similar. However I did forget night shot in this argument, and it means we can't truly have mst at one, ns will replace in spirit. Still, no action is necessary.

[u][b]One Day of Peace vs Final Countdown[/b][/u]
If you're going to hit alt wins, you need to address exodia in addition to countdown. Hitting one day nerfs both decks, but arguably not enough. As much as I'd like to avoid jumping on the anti alt win bandwagon, that argument is completely valid. Because stall removes player interaction, it doesn't deserve to exist. However, while this thread is aboult what needs to happen, I must say I doubt konami will hit stall, and I'm not sure one countdown top is enough to sway them into thinking its a problem.

Solutions to the problems have been discussed before and either-ors often attempt to simplify it in a way it can't be simplified ._.

[ihop]

1- Future Fusion, it doesn't just work with Dragons, it can dump the whole Deck for Chimeratech which shouldn't be allowed to happen anyway, and a few more random combos that just shouldn't exist.
2- Tourguide, Sangan isn't really a broken card, but Tourguide can basically normal summon any rank 3.
3- Hunter, it's not part of the Deck and is only used for the loop which is stupid. The deck without Hunter just becomes an Xyz spam deck which is fine.
4- Hornet Banned, dunno why Centipede would get hit.
5- REDMD, Atum is fine if Gaia Dragon doesn't exist either.
6- Rabbit, Laggia is a well designed card if it can't be brought out stupidly easily.
7- Umm neither, neither is a problem.
8- Countdown, but if any alt win still exists Day of Peace has to go to 0.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Well, I'm gonna be a rebel and not follow the format. I'm just going to say that if they would have just banned Future Fusion forever ago, Chimeratech wouldn't have been a problem, Jinzo Returners wouldn't be a problem, FHD wouldn't be a problem, and it could save a lot of trouble. People only use it for a free dump, and Foolish Burial is at 1 despite dumping only 1 monster (though it is non-specific), so yeah...

[~British Soul~]

1. [b]Future Fusion[/b]: it has always been a problem card, and is mainly used as a mass Foolish Burial. without it, the fusions abused by it don't become a problem and it would prevent combos in the future
2. [b]Tour Guide from the Underworld[/b]: i'd go for Tour Guide to get hit before Sangan, because Tour Guide has always been a problem since she came out, a 1-card Xyz shouldn't exist imo
3. [b]Wind-Up Hunter[/b]: it's only used in the loop which is bad design, and Wind-Ups can do perfectly fine without it
4. [b]Inzektor Hornet[/b]: i'd go for Hornet over those 2 imo, Hornet is the main problem and without it Inzektors can still exist but not as a broken.dek
5. [b]Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon[/b]: it'll most liekly get hit next format anyway, either 1 or 0. If Atum was to go to 0 however, you would basically kill of Hieratics as a deck
6. [b]Rescue Rabbit[/b]: Rabbit was bad card design in the beginning it's another 1-card Xyz that abused the good designed Laggia which is not a problem when other people say it is
7. [b]Neither[/b]: neither of them are broken, and Storm is better for the game than Trunade (which i don't see coming back IF Storm was banned again)
8. [b]Final Countdown[/b]: Alt wins shouldn't exist at all. One Day of Peace's existance further promotes stall which removes player-interaction, although as much as i would like either one of those to get hit, i'm not sure if they'll get hit, sure a Final Countdown deck topped, but it was only once and i don't think that's enough to warrant it to get list attention

i know these explanations aren't good, but i like to think i have made the right choices

[HSektor]

[b]FuFu @0. [/b]Loops with Brionac/Dewloren don't use FHD.
[b]Tour @1 or Tour @2 and Sangan @0. [/b]In both settings, Tour guide becomes a card that's only playable in Fiend decks.
[b]Hunter @0. [/b]Konami smoked some pot and this card was born. Stop using drugs, designers. Wind-up it's a fine and fair toolbox deck without this brain-damaged piece of s***.
[b]Hornet @0 or 1. [/b]At least at 1 it's easier to counter, but it's a badly designed card anyway. Centipede and Dragonfly doesn't deserve a ban/limit.
[b]REDM @1. [/b]Less consistency and abuse. @0 will hurt every Dragon deck ever.
[b]Rabbit @1. [/b]Please, make a good normal monster support that isn't broken, Konami. ;-;
[b]MST @1. [/b]I know that Night Shot or Dust Tornado isn't that good, but come on. I wanna play my Continuous Spell/Trap cards without being raped by thunders [s]and insects.[/s]
[b]Final Countdown AND EXODIA HEAD @0. [/b]In the end, alt win isn't a good thing for yugioh.

[.Rai]

I always like looking at things from a design-orientated view.

[b]1. Future Fusion @0:[/b] If not banning for its use in Dragons, ban it for the fact it's a free Special Summon and deck mill in general.
[b]2. Tour Guide from the Underworld @1; Sangan @0:[/b] TGU at 1 will inevitably solve the problem, but you could put it as 0 if wanted just for the sake of it being badly designed. And Sangan's not causing too many relevant problems, but it's still a bannable tutor.
[b]3. Wind-Up Hunter @0:[/b] Hunter at 0 should solve most of Wind-Up problems. However, hitting Zenmaity alongside it is never a bad thing.
[b]4. Inzektor Hornet @0:[/b] Obviously, Konami logic will get in the way but, still, I can dream.
[b]5. Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon @0:[/b] Goddamn awful design and equally as abusable. Atum's not exactly amazing design either. Not sure how much Hieratics really deserve to live in general. They're generally a really strange pile of design.
[b]6. Rescue Rabbit @0:[/b] Obviously, Rabbit should be hit of the two. Anyone who thinks otherwise is meh. I'd prefer it at 0, only because it compensates running inconsistent cards in your deck with a +1. What? So Rescue Rabbit's uses lies in milling vanillas, or making Xyzs. Either way, awful. Screw 'casual vanilla decks'. They're not supposed to exist.
[b]7. Neither:[/b] No massive need to hit either. You could hit MST, but people would just run Night Beams and Dust Tornados in the side and main.
[b]8. Final Countdown @0:[/b] Obvious; no need to explain. By default, Exodia should go too though.

[mido9]

Future fusion: Since just a FHD hit wont be enough.
Tour guide: Sangan is small potatoes compared to how negatively TGU shaped the format.
Hunter: Since it's loop only
Centipede: Since it leaves the deck at least slightly more playable,i'd prefer a hornet ban though.
REDMD: Since it also fixes the chaos dragon problem.
Rabbit: Since it's a free rank 2/3/4 with no prior setup
MST: Since the other one is heavy.
Final countdown: Since one day at least sees play with the cardcar d combo.

[Lonk]

Konami did some out of the blue bans before to problematic cards (Fishborg Gunner, Glow-Up, Substitoad, ect). They will do the same thing to Hornet.

Also, Rabbit limited. There really shouldn't be a reason that this guy has his own massive amounts of decks while he should only be a tech. That's pretty much what Rabbit's role should be next format.

But anyways, back to the choices:

1. FuFu banned. With Kite pack coming out, Photons can easily tech in FuFu and can also lead to the deck being OTK material. We don't need that.
2. Hit the "Normal Summon Zenmaines from your Extra Deck" card.
3. Hunter banned for serving no other purpose than to hand loop.
4. Neither. Hornet is the only problem with the deck.
5. REDMD to 0. HUGE pile of mess that was meant for fanboyish "competitive" duelists. Only decks that will miss it are Chaos Drags, Hieratics and bad dragon decks that are actually Holy Random Piles of Batman. Atum really doesn't do anything outside of that except turn into Thunder Charger.
6. Hit the Rabbit. It is a part of many tourney winning decks in OCG outside of Dino-Rabbit
7. Neither, though hitting Heavy would promote a Mado-*shot*
8. Final Countdown to 0.

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

1. Fufu is painful choice, deserved to be banned long ago.
2. Limit TGU
3. Hunter to 0, Zenmaity to 1
4. Hornet to 0, neither of the above are problem cards
5. If an type needs a broken card to be viable, then in should fall by the wayside. As much as it hurts me to say it, REDMD to 0.
6. Ban the wee little rabbit, even in OCG it's use in Evilswarm Rabbits makes it a force to be reckoned with even without TGU to increase the deck's consistency.
7. Neither
8. Instant win cards that require no player interaction must die.

[Agro]

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1343553080' post='5991687']
Well, I'm gonna be a rebel and not follow the format. I'm just going to say that if they would have just banned Future Fusion forever ago, FHD wouldn't be a problem
[/quote]But FGD ISN'T the problem. It hasn't been the problem, and I doubt it ever will be a problem.

[ranma1/2]

[quote name='Agro' timestamp='1343605074' post='5992225']
But FGD ISN'T the problem. It hasn't been the problem, and I doubt it ever will be a problem.
[/quote]
exactly. even a man-eater bug can get rid of fhd.
banning future fusion will eliminate the dumping of the dragons, slowing the deck down a LOT.

[Agro]

[quote name='ranma1/2' timestamp='1343605544' post='5992239']
exactly. even a man-eater bug can get rid of fhd.
banning future fusion will eliminate the dumping of the dragons, slowing the deck down a LOT.
[/quote]It doesn't slow it down, hardly at all, really. What it does is eliminate a free quintuple foolish. Which is stupid, it's virtually OTK if drawn.

[ranma1/2]

[quote name='Agro' timestamp='1343605673' post='5992242']
It doesn't slow it down, hardly at all, really. What it does is eliminate a free quintuple foolish. Which is stupid, it's virtually OTK if drawn.
[/quote]
taking out a otk-potential card that targets the grave, in a deck that relies mostly on the grave, doesn't count as slowing the deck down? o.O

[Agro]

[quote name='ranma1/2' timestamp='1343606174' post='5992251']
taking out a otk-potential card doesn't count as slowing the deck down? o.O
[/quote]It's one card.

That the Deck doesn't search for.

Or even need to draw.

How is not having that slowing it down?