Legend Zero Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Throughout the years we have had several cards (and watered down versions) with this basic effect. The only thing in common is that they are broken or to restricted. Is the idea to powerful to allow in today's game? If not provide what you think is a reasonable middle ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I think Mind Control is overpowered at 3, but at 1 it's OK. It's hard to Xyz with it. Synchros are out of favor; many Extra Decks contain no Synchros besides maybe Stardust and Catastor. Using it in any other ways requires careful planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Plant version of Snatch Steal [img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111224072951/yugioh/images/thumb/b/b7/MarkoftheRoseDT02-EN-DRPR-DT.jpg/300px-MarkoftheRoseDT02-EN-DRPR-DT.jpg[/img] .... Seems legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 The fact is that Synchro and Xyz mechanics break this one. Not being able to attack or be tributed used to be a downside, but now it doesn't even matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 [quote name='newhat' timestamp='1344360226' post='6000126'] I think Mind Control is overpowered at 3, but at 1 it's OK. It's hard to Xyz with it. Synchros are out of favor; many Extra Decks contain no Synchros besides maybe Stardust and Catastor. Using it in any other ways requires careful planning. [/quote] Are you daft? Mind Control is even more broken than ever right now. Mind Control should go. Anyways, I really like Big Eye, but I'm rather.... unsure of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 This idea in particular has the ability of easily becoming abusive. Let's go in order: [b]Change of Heart:[/b] Any monster. In any position. Face-up or face-down. Cost free. Back when it was thought out, you could probably steal a "Great White" and attack with 2 1600 ATK beatsticks, then just proceed to return it OR Tribute the monster for Summoned SKull. The speed of the game made it not OTK [u]that[/u] often. Nowadays. Forget it. [b]Brain Control:[/b] Concidered ok when released. Face-down Defense Position monsters existed, and FLIP effects were viable, with all those Rocks coming out. at least it was a bit more restrictive, and the speed was so much slower than Cyber Dragon and the such effect didn't exist. Of course, it is almost a Change of Heart, and as Decks become more reliant on defending by putting a stronger offence, this becomes Change of Heart. [b]Snatch Steal[/b] Searchable, pseudo-permanent, cost-free. Same as the above. [color=blue]The issue here, is that controling cards are not the typical 1 for 1. You spend a card to make your opponent loose a card, but the card goes to your side, resulting in a +0 from you, and a -1 to your opponent, which is technically temporal, but it is either: a) you use the monster for something to ditch having to give it back you have gotten enough power on your side to finish the Duel there. Not to mention they only encourage OTKing. For the ones that seem acceptable:[/color] [b]Enemy Controller:[/b] Requires 1 Tribute, making it a -1 to you and a -1 to your opponent, so ultimately a +0. It is also able to be used during your opponent's turn, encouraging interaction. Plus the secondary effect. This was good design. [b]Creature Swap:[/b] Your opponent still has the same advantage, and you get a -1 in exchange for taking control of the situation. Not to mention that a Quick Summon from your opponent might as well end up giving you a Treeborn Frog. [b]Mystical Box:[/b] It's underwhelming. I shouldn't have to say anything here. [b]Big Eye:[/b] He takes some advantage/effort to bring out, and can't attack that turn. By itself is ok I guess. Mind Control is a special case. It was a good card back before Synchros. You deserve the reward if you were able to pull it for Fusions. Though the newer mechanics removed it's restrictions completely, and now it's almost a Brain Control. That can't be helped much I guess. Enemy Controller maybe would be actually used in Hieratics if the OTK wasn't the way to go. and I'm not really sure on Tragoedia as a card, but I like it's control Effect in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 [quote name='newhat' timestamp='1344360226' post='6000126'] I think Mind Control is overpowered at 3, but at 1 it's OK. It's hard to Xyz with it. Synchros are out of favor; many Extra Decks contain no Synchros besides maybe Stardust and Catastor. Using it in any other ways requires careful planning. [/quote] What other ways? The only use for Mind Control is to use it to steal your opponents monster and use it as fodder for Xyz / Synchro / maybe Fusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 In my opinion, the best designed stealers? http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Memory_of_a_Rival http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Mental_Corruption Really like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 E-Con would be one of the best designed ones imo if treeborn wasnt a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1344360116' post='6000137'] Are you daft? Mind Control is even more broken than ever right now. Mind Control should go. [/quote] How so? [quote name='Zanda Panda' timestamp='1349912082' post='6000139'] What other ways? The only use for Mind Control is to use it to steal your opponents monster and use it as fodder for Xyz / Synchro / maybe Fusion. [/quote] You can also 1) run over a Zenmaines and take its effect for yourself 2) steal a Laggia to make your plays unhindered, which in practice is "force Laggia's effect" 3) work around a defensive monster for a card like Atlantean Marksman ...among other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 [quote name='Sleepy' timestamp='1344361060' post='6000138'] [b]BIg Eye:[/b] He takes some advantage/effort to bring out, and can't attack that turn. By itself is good, as long as Thunder Charger or something similar doesn't exist. This is an example of a card that is only bad for the game because of the interaction of a single card that shouldn't exist.[/quote] Big Eye is a Rank 7. Thunder Charger can be Xyz Summoned by using a Rank 5 or 6 O,o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Forces Quasar too. It's one of the only ways to beat it. Unlike Laggia, you won't be running it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 [quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1344361834' post='6000144'] Big Eye is a Rank 7. Thunder Charger can be Xyz Summoned by using a Rank 5 or 6 O,o [/quote] Hmm... I guess I never really read the card. I just assumed it was Rank 5+ and saw someone on DN doing it... I guess that means they also didn't read it. *goes to edit* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citrine Serpent Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Not that it's a good idea for it to come back, but I miss brain control. And cold wave. *shot* *dodges* Nostalgia guise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. guy Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 [quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1344361110' post='6000140'] In my opinion, the best designed stealers? [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Memory_of_a_Rival"]http://yugioh.wikia....mory_of_a_Rival[/url] [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Mental_Corruption"]http://yugioh.wikia....ntal_Corruption[/url] Really like them. [/quote] Excuse me while I make a deck with those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suibon Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 [center]The middle ground (between making it janky as with Brain Jacker and making it a must-have as with Change of Heart) is the imposition of costs and/or conditions prior to the taking of the opposing monster, as well as with restricting the choice of targets to be taken.[/center] [center]Tragoedia (discarding a monster of the same Level as the targeted monster that you want to take), Enemy Controller (tributing a monster that isn't named Treeborn Frog or some other blatant floater), Creature Swap (opponent chooses which monster to give, and you must part with a monster of your own), fulfill at least part of that.[/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 That's a nice way of stating a formula for how to make the design balanced. =0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasemeow Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='Sleepy' timestamp='1344361060' post='6000138'] [b]Big Eye:[/b] He takes some advantage/effort to bring out, and can't attack that turn. By itself is ok I guess. [/quote] In machinas, i can't see a reason not to use him. I can easily make 1-2 of him in the first 2-3 turns of the duel if i wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKPLANT RISING Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='mido9' timestamp='1344361385' post='6000141'] E-Con would be one of the best designed ones imo if treeborn wasnt a thing. [/quote] I think it's good card design because E-Con is one of several things that make Frognarchs semi-good without being retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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